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Thread: Gas in Oil

  1. #1
    apriliaforum newb
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    Unhappy Gas in Oil

    Hey Gals & Guys
    Gas in oil issue is Real!!!!

    Got my oil annalysis report back on my 03 Atlantic 500
    480 Miles on an oil change
    Report reads as follows:
    Low wear levels detected, but serious dilution with gasoline found. 9% Properly performing engine should experience only minimal dilution, Less than 2%

    For those of us that have this problem we should stick together and keep the pressure on Aprilia to correct the problem before our warrantys expire. United we stand, divided we lose out.

    Geefus
    geefus
    Geo. Favor

  2. #2
    apriliaforum Junkie
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    register your problem here

    geefus has a good idea here- why don't we all register our bikes by model and year and if we have a problem. Then maybe we will be able to get all the affected bikes in one place where Aprilia and members of this forum some real definitive idea as to the degree of this situation. geefus, please come back with model and year of your bike.
    I'll start, here's my info-

    '2003' Aprilia AA500 purchased 'new' 7-08-04
    does have gas in oil issue - several warranty oil changes done
    oil analysis done - results were 7% gas contamination in my oil
    dealer did gas/air analysis and azzone remap - still have issue
    modifications - drilled 1/16" hole in center of gas cap
    california emissions system still in place
    Richard fssnoc#4368(KS)

  3. #3
    apriliaforum newb
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    Cool Scoots with gas in oil list

    2003 Atlantic 500 Silver S/N ZD4PTC0043S000734 Warranty expires April 05 GAS IN OIL PROBLEM Taken to dealer twice at Aprilia's request for techs to check out problem. Work performed:
    Emissions corrected, Spark plug replaced, Set up on EGA/was reading 10.0% C.O at idle. Re adjusted. Updated fuel vent, replaced thermostat as scoot was running cold, resealed intake manifold. Still have gas in oil problem with no relief in sight
    George Favor, Eustis, Fla.
    Geefus
    geefus
    Geo. Favor

  4. #4
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    gassy

    Here's mine:

    2003 AA purchased new in 11/03. Ser. # - ZD4PTC0033S000160

    Didnt make it home after purchase before it died and wouldn't refire...dealer fixed a kink in breather hose.

    Discovered oil grossly overfilled (dealer change 1200 miles after initial service.

    Self sevice done and found oil level 1/2 " above full mark after 500 miles.

    Taken to dealer for gas in oil issue 1 week ago...awaiting response.

    psg

  5. #5
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    Here is my serial #ZD4PTC0043S000846
    model: AA500 2003 silver grey
    bought my scooter second hand from a private at 10800 miles.
    I changed the oil 500 miles later, at the time I notice the old oil was very durty light in viscosity and with a awfull smell of gasoline. I haven't paid more attention as far as having this old oil check. I refilled my cranckcase making sure to not overfill it using 15W50 synthetic and a new filter. Now 1000 miles later the oil mark on the dipstick is touching the round part of the stick. The scooter run perfect and no modifications had been done to it so far (CA emission or pinhole in the gas cap) waiting patiently to ear from either my dealer or Richard at Aprilia USA.

    Hoping for a fix soon for all of us who unfortunately are lacking answers to a real issue.


    May God help the people working to solve the puzzle.
    God bless us all...

  6. #6
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    I finally got a return call from Richard telling me that my dealer should contact me to let me know when to bring my scoot. in. He told me that they will change the thermostat and ajust the emission with their computer. Sorry if I don't use the mechanic jargon because I am not too familiar with it, he also told me that having as far as 3% gas shouldn't hurt the engine. My only concern is that I will think that 1 inch above the maximum oil level in the crankcase is probably much more than 3% diluted.
    God bless us all...

  7. #7
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    Hey everybody, I am wondering what the thermostat has to do in our problem gas in the oil. Does someone can explain in plain english what would be the raison for the thermostat to cause the gas to enter the crankcase,I am lost?????

    Help me please.
    God bless us all...

  8. #8
    apriliaforum Junkie
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    why the thermostat?

    gaetan - A fair question! Some time back when everyone was on the premis that gas in the oil was a result of fuel under pressure by the fuel injection system and leaking injectors, I was the odd man out. I didn't agree then and still don't. Now, it seems they are finally coming around to my originally stated concern.
    I wrote a long statement of my position on the gas in oil topic thread but can't find it anymore on my computer because I think it's in archives somewhere and this old man isn't a computer wizard and don't know how to find it. It would have been easier to just direct you to it but lacking that option I will just give a brief here for you to ponder.
    First, as you are certainly aware, the Atlantic has a fuel injected fuel system as opposed to carbuereted fuel delivery. When an injection systen is used, a computer of some sort reads vital information from various sensors placed at strategic spots on the bike whether on the motor itself or a peripheral part. The systems read for example, oil temp, air temp, water temperature etc., and constantly adjust for these variables as the're preset in the computers FI operating memory.
    Now, here's where the explaination gets somewhat muddy in the explaination because it relates to ones deeper understanding of how an engine works from an operating standpoint. Let me just say that if the computer thinks the engine is running cold or at least cooler than normal by the installation of a colder thermostat then the computer takes this data and thinks the bike has not yet warmed up and enrichens the mixture. Constantly in the case of the Atlantic because of an apparent improper part at assembly.
    Here is where it really gets muddy. Rings are not under maximum sealing pressure except on combustion. As a piston decends on the intake stroke, the rings are only under normal spring tension. As the piston rises past a cylinder wall wet with what is now excess gas, some of that gas bypasses the rings and when the piston nears the top of this stroke and the mixture ignites, the rings expand under internal pressure of combustion and as the piston drops, scrapes the excess gas now below the rings down into the oil supply. This is done over and over as the bike is ridden. This in my humble opinion is precisely where we are getting gas in the oil. It is through a faulty reading of the computer and the fact that Piaggio finally found the error in production supplied parts during their assembly process makes perfect sense to me. I just hope it is the last and final answer to this ongoing problem.
    Hope this makes sense now.

  9. #9
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    You explain it wonderfully and I really think that could be the answer. It really make sence.

    Thank you very much and pray that this is it.
    God bless us all...

  10. #10
    apriliaforum expert
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    try this on retrieving

    old post, Richard fssnoc#.

    go to your "profile" at bottom burgandy area on any post u start, look at "view all post" in the red area upper right of that page.

  11. #11
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    prior postings

    bcc333 - Thanks for the neat info. Maybe i'll learn to use this thing yet with great direction like that.

  12. #12
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    Angry Aprilia - problem not fixed

    Bad news folks!. I got with my dealer today (he had been speaking with Aprilia off and on for 2 weeks). Dealer stated that Aprilia knew there was an issue involved...but had no idea on what was causing it, let alone how to fix it. Dealer stated that Aprilia told him that several theories were out and several repair strategies had been tried, but none seem to be working. Aprilia told my dealer to give disconnecting the emissions a try. I guess I will but am not thrilled about it. You would think that Aprilia or Piaggo could fix this thing...haven't they been making scooters for years. I think we may all be in trouble. Hope for the best.

    psg

  13. #13
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    Re: Aprilia - problem not fixed

    Originally posted by xharley
    Bad news folks!. I got with my dealer today (he had been speaking with Aprilia off and on for 2 weeks). Dealer stated that Aprilia knew there was an issue involved...but had no idea on what was causing it, let alone how to fix it. Dealer stated that Aprilia told him that several theories were out and several repair strategies had been tried, but none seem to be working. Aprilia told my dealer to give disconnecting the emissions a try. I guess I will but am not thrilled about it. You would think that Aprilia or Piaggo could fix this thing...haven't they been making scooters for years. I think we may all be in trouble. Hope for the best.

    p
    Hey, I guess You haven't heard about the thermostat fix. According to Richard at Aprilia who is in contact with Piaggio Italie they told him that this will probably end our nightmare. So before having your emission removed you should mentioned that to your dealer ,and you should have him contact Richard. Just read some treads before where it's really well explain by a wise guy.

    I am hopefull that this will be resolve pretty soon.
    God bless us all...

  14. #14
    apriliaforum Junkie Richie C's Avatar
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    Gas in Oil Issue

    xharley raised a good point about the emissions. I had a problem with my Atlantic 500 stalling . I took it to my dealer . They contacted Aprilia and they sent out a fix kit. It solved the problem. The bike runs great now with no problems.

    This brings me to another question. Is this so called gas in oil issue related to just the USA bikes equipped with the California emissions? Do any European or Brit owners have a gas in oil issue?

    My theory which is in fact based on some fact is the following:

    1. The Oil will smell of gas in all Aprilias and X9s sold in US . This is because the LEADER engine design vents its gas emissions(fumes) directly to the crank case. Forget percentages (2% norm) they are meaningless.

    2. Actual gas in the oil can only be detirmined by viscosity tests and actual measurement by the volume of oil removed from the crank case. If the volume is found to be increased (Gas in Oil not fumes), then there is good chance there is raw gas present.. The this could be caused by a California emissions routing defect which could cause raw fuel to be deposited into the crank case.

    Raw fuel deposited into the crank case would cause severe engine damage in the short term. Any documented reports of this from anyone?

    Anyway, it would be nice if we can get some responses from Euro, Brit , Canadian and other overseas owners as to if they have reports of this issue.

    Richie C.
    Last edited by Richie C; 09-25-2004 at 06:18 PM.

  15. #15
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    Reply to GT

    GT

    My dealer did discuss the thermostat issue with Aprilia...their response was that afflicted bikes remained aflicted even after a thermostat change. So this may not be the quick fix we are all hoping for.

    psg

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