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Thread: 07 Tuono runs rough, 'cuts out', feels like fueling issue?

  1. #16
    apriliaforum Member
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    For the small vacuum lines, I went to Home Depot and bought fuel line for a small gas trimmer. It was in a package with 2 sizes. It's been working great for 20K+ miles.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  2. #17
    apriliaforum expert jess67's Avatar
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    Those small vacuum lines you have circled are the ones recommended to check and are not OEM, so they have been replaced. The fuel pump lines look standard but the hose clamps are not, so some one has been in there in the past. For the effort of removing the pump I would replace the fuel line and the filter while its apart. Do a search on which submersible fuel line to use.
    I replaced the funny shaped hose between the pump and filter with the new fuel line and those gates fuel injection clamps used on the lower hose. Make sure they are tight when reassembly. Also there is a pre-strainer/screen under the pump that needs to be checked.
    Lifting the tank can separate the pump wire connector, its a known minor issue. I run a couple of small cable ties around mine to hold it together.
    It might be worthwile to pull the injectors and have them ultrasonically cleaned while its all apart, then that will have covered the whole fuel system.

  3. #18
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    Thanks Jess, good info. Earlier today I ordered the fuel pump 'recall kit' (short hose and clamps I suppose), the OEM funny shaped fuel line between pump and filter, a new fuel filter and the o-ring and crush washers to put it all back together. I DON'T want to go through the pain to remove the tank again I'll also check the pre-strainer/screen.

    I have an ultrasonic cleaner I use for carbs/etc. Never thought of using it for the injectors... Maybe I'll pull them and drop them in for a while! Or I wonder if a dedicated injector cleaner service will have better results? I don't mind sending them out...

    I won't try it myself - just saw this:
    Ultrasonics do work well at cleaning injectors but...
    These are powerful units with multiple transducers using multiple frequencies and are heated. They are powerful enough to pepper tin foil full of holes in seconds.

    I use three different units with different chemicals, i buy these commercially but the one for carbon and varnish needs to be vented and is hazardous the others are ammonia/soap type cleaners.
    The injector nozzles need to be very close over the transducer and fired at different rates of speed at specified milliseconds depending on the type of spray pattern used.

    Large single hole units respond best to slower cycles while multi hole units respond best to faster cycles.
    You also need to remove the filter, this can be done with a sheet metal screw but you need to be careful, i use a special tool with a flat thread screw that levers them out.

    Getting a ultrasonic unit and just throwing the injectors in will not clean them internally.
    It may take a few hours to bring clean the injectors to spec with proper equipment but you need to flow check after using calibration fluid.

    I don't want to put you off from trying to do this but the results maybe disappointing, there is a lot of expensive equipment and knowledge required to get the desired results.
    Last edited by BillyBB; 08-08-2019 at 04:49 PM.

  4. #19
    apriliaforum expert Jeff U's Avatar
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    With fuel mileage you are getting it's unlikely to be the vacuum lines. When they fail the bike runs poorly because the fuel mixture goes to much too rich. MPG will plunge.

    As has been mentioned, the bike will begin to run poorly if the stator is dying. It will stumble more and you'll get an increase in exhaust popping on deceleration.

    Have you checked running voltages at the battery terminals?

    Also, if you get the Service Warning don't turn the bike off until after you have checked the diagnostics for error codes. The error codes are not all stored and often will clear if you turn the ignition off.
    Last edited by Jeff U; 08-08-2019 at 05:03 PM.

  5. #20
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    Naturally the bike is apart now so I can't check the running voltage at the battery terminals, and I didn't do that prior to removing the fuel pump.

    The PO relocated the reg/rec on this bike to under the tailsection. He also got rid of the connectors between the stator and the reg/rec, butt splicing extra wire. That all looks good. When I was riding the bike I'd usually have it on a battery tender, so the battery would typically be topped up when I'd head out for a ride. It would run like shit as soon as I got rolling, so I don't think the issue is caused by low battery voltage. I will check it though after I get the fuel pump back on. I didn't notice a lot of popping on decel, and even if it did, I'd have chalked that up to the slip-ons I installed without going to Map 2. Which reminds me - is there any way to check if the bike is already on Map 2, without sending it to AF1? With all the work the PO did on the bike, maybe he did that too, but I doubt it since it had stock pipes.

    I'll send the injectors here: https://www.mpsracing.com/products/M...r_Cleaning.asp
    Last edited by BillyBB; 08-08-2019 at 06:56 PM.

  6. #21
    apriliaforum expert Jeff U's Avatar
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    I don't know if there is any way to check which map the bike is running.

    Since no one here has answered, I'd call AF1.

    I have called them before and have always found them very friendly and helpful.

  7. #22
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    Yeah I'll call AF1 today and see if they have a way to find out which map its on. Agree - great folks, wish I lived closer.

    Ok I can't find a MAP sensor under the seat. I do have a 3-pin white connector with nothing hooked up to it, which is right by the plug for the fuel pump. Any help? What vacuum line would connect to the sensor under the seat?

    I removed the airbox and was going to pull the injectors but to get the throttle cable assembly loose (in order to access one of the torx screws required to remove the injectors) I'll need to pull the throttle body off the motor. I'll wait on this until I put it all back together with the new fuel filter/etc and it still runs like crap
    Last edited by BillyBB; 08-09-2019 at 07:58 AM.

  8. #23
    apriliaforum expert TeddyG's Avatar
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    There's a sticky in the maintenance section about alternative submersible fuel line and AF1 offers fuel injector ultrasonic cleaning w/ a print out of the results. You can visually check the stators condition simply by draining all the oil and carefully removing the cover (to re-use the gasket). If the stator armatures are brown and melted, it's toast. When my stator went out, the bike surged and stumbled thru the rev ranges, so possibly that could be your issue. A search will give you more info about it and replacing it-

  9. #24
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    Already ordered the OE lines for the fuel pump - those are on their way from AF1 along with fuel filter etc.

    Good info on the stator - I'll check that, thanks TeddyG. I still haven't found anything that makes me go "Ah ha - there's the problem!" (except the lack of a MAF sensor under the seat mentioned by dfoustou earlier in this thread???????) so maybe the stator is it.

    ECU maps - AF1 said they started marking the ECUs with a silver pen or sticker when they would switch to map2, but said outside of that, there's no way to tell what map the ECU is running. That map isn't the issue on this bike - it ran this way with both stock mufflers and now with the MIVVs, but I'll go ahead and send the ECU out for map 2 over the winter. Honestly when I put pipes on my 07 RSV and switched to map 2 I didn't notice much difference in the way it ran before/after the map switch.

  10. #25
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    OK its back together. Here's what I did:
    - replace fuel filter, fuel line in the tank and install 'recall kit' hose and clamps
    - clean pre-filter screen (bag-type thing)
    - checked all the vacuum lines and routing of hoses/etc from the PO removal of the charcoal canister (all seemed fine)
    - found the MAF sensor under the seat and it looks fine, I didn't measure voltage, figured I'd ride it first

    I rode it about 30 miles and it seems a lot better. No more cutting out. Generally feels lean especially right off idle but that may be due to the MIVV slip-ons and the bike still being on Map 1, not sure. I'll send the ECU to AF1 for re-mapping now that the bike more or less runs ok. Like I said, when I had the other RSV and put slip-ons on it, I really couldn't tell any difference between Maps 1 and 2 on that bike but we'll see if it makes a difference on this one.

    I also checked and the bike has about 14V across the battery at idle and revved a bit it tops out around 14.4V, which seems good to me.

    Its still a mystery as to what exactly was wrong. Maybe it was just a clogged fuel filter but that just seems unusual. It does puzzle me though on the large clear pieces of thin plastic I found in the tank when I pulled the pump assembly - I should have taken a pic. Its almost pieces of like a clear plastic drink cup you'd get at a Starbucks or something, but I can't imagine how they got in there. Naturally I thought of something after it was all back together and I was riding it - is there some kind of coating on the inside of the tank that may be peeling off? Perhaps smaller pieces of this stuff are what clogged the fuel filter (but I didn't see them on the pre-filter bag)? There is definitely ethanol in the gas around here (corn country...). Anyone else heard of this kind of issue?

    Thanks again for all the help guys! Love this bike.
    Last edited by BillyBB; 08-16-2019 at 08:00 AM.

  11. #26
    apriliaforum expert johnnyjellybean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBB View Post

    Generally feels lean especially right off idle but that may be due to the MIVV slip-ons and the bike still being on Map 1
    What does "feels lean" mean? Is it hiccuping through the air filter at any time? That would be a sign of running lean. Have you looked at the plugs? What do they look like? My bike is now running great with slip-ons on MAP 1.



    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBB View Post
    Maybe it was just a clogged fuel filter but that just seems unusual.
    .
    That's not unusual at all. That's what was wrong with my bike which had the same symptoms. The first thing that should be looked at with a fuel related problem on an EFI system should be the filter.... any mechanic will tell you that.

  12. #27
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    "feels lean" - Right off idle it doesn't seem to pick up revs like it should, have to baby it a bit and slip the clutch more than I'd like. Not backfiring through the airbox but some popping on closed throttle (not a ton but its there and tells me its definitely not rich on the 'idle circuit'. Just acts/feels like a carbureted bike that's lean on the pilot. My RSV ran good with slip-ons and Map 1 also but this one feels lean. I replaced the plugs when I got the bike about 800 miles ago so I doubt they are the problem but I guess its possible something in that time fouled them a bit.

    I guess I haven't worked on enough FI bikes because I've never had a fuel filter cause issues in 30 years of working on older junk. If its a typical problem on these then I guess that solves that mystery - thanks!

  13. #28
    apriliaforum expert jess67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBB View Post
    Maybe it was just a clogged fuel filter but that just seems unusual. It does puzzle me though on the large clear pieces of thin plastic I found in the tank when I pulled the pump assembly - I should have taken a pic. Its almost pieces of like a clear plastic drink cup you'd get at a Starbucks or something, but I can't imagine how they got in there. Naturally I thought of something after it was all back together and I was riding it - is there some kind of coating on the inside of the tank that may be peeling off? Perhaps smaller pieces of this stuff are what clogged the fuel filter (but I didn't see them on the pre-filter bag)? There is definitely ethanol in the gas around here (corn country...). Anyone else heard of this kind of issue
    There are threads on ethanol swelling plastic tanks and guys drying out their tanks and using Caswell? coatings. Maybe that explains the peices inside the tank.

  14. #29
    apriliaforum expert johnnyjellybean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBB View Post
    I replaced the plugs when I got the bike about 800 miles ago so I doubt they are the problem but I guess its possible something in that time fouled them a bit.
    I asked how the plugs looked meaning to take a reading to see if the bike really was running lean and not to see if they were good. You can tell a lot by reading a plug.

  15. #30
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    I'll pull one to see. I don't have much luck reading plugs with modern fuel, unless something is running REALLY rich or REALLY lean. Will check back with results.

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