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Thread: Smart enough to be dangerous or successful

  1. #1
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    Smart enough to be dangerous or successful

    Well this is my first post here. Hello all those who come here. Anyways I see lots of Aprilia people here and I was hoping to get some advice. I own a 2002 Falco 1000SL R and I blew the heads (maybe head). It's a really great story how , but for the moment I'm a bit frustrated and need help. I tell the story later. So I drop the motor to pull the head and my son thinking to help the old man decides to pop the cam gears and chain and gets as far as removing all the bolts on the head , rear might I add. He comes to me so proud that he has done all this and tells me what he's done. All the color drained from my face my wife remarked as I realized what has happened. I can't explain how I was able to be a great father and not go to jail for child abuse. I wanted to ring his neck but of course one has to be greater than thy self in these matters. So I congratulated him on being so smart then went to the bathroom and cried for an hour. Just kidding I don't cry. But I found the cat and &@$^*&$#. (nah) just kidding again. Lol.
    Well I guess most of you know that the timing is now FUCKED!!!!! I have never been in this situation before. I have friends that work on bikes and everyone I talk to repeats the fact . I'm fucked. I love my Falco! It was in the worst shape ever when I got her. I put down a lot of time and energy into rebuilding her. Then when she first fired up , man it was on and cracking! Soon I was hitting elevens at the track. Almost 10's . How many times I smoked my friends and perfect strangers with this Falco. That V-Twin is really no joke. If you don't hang on tight when you push her she'll leave you like a one night stand.
    Back to the point if I may? How can I set the timing back ? Or is it something I should just let the shop do? I mean I have a respectable knowledge of bikes but I've never had to do this before. If any of you have kids and a wife you can understand that doing it yourself saves money and unless you got it to burn than saving money is a top priority. I'd love to take it to the shop but at $125.00 an hour plus parts , its a last resort. So here I am asking anyone for some help on this matter. Now as it is though , I plan to try some innovative ideas to increase performance that is low cost. This may turn out to be a god send. Who knows. Hope some one can give me an idea of what I'm up against besides a over achieving son. He now knows though what he's done and he is the one who found this forum.

  2. #2
    apriliaforum expert
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    Welcome aboard

    you should post this up in the Falco thread section dedicated for this model

    you can probably download from AF1 a pdf workshop manual for little money, here your posted in the race thread so may have fewer hits

    i dont have a Falco but found this link, maybe this thread evolves and gives you some information

    good luck

    https://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/...lco+cam+timing
    Previous bikes : AR50 - AR80 - CB250N - RD350LC - RGV250 - VT400 - TDR250 - VIRAGO 535 - RF600 - RF900 - CBR600 - GSXR750 - TL1000R - T160 TRIUMPH - R1 - PIAGGIO - R6 - RC30 - 916SPS - VFR800 - 675 DAYTONA - CBR600RR - TL1000R - YZF750 - RSV4 FACTORY.

  3. #3
    apriliaforum expert
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    Where are you in California? If you are anywhere close to Amauri, I’d take the bike to him. Look him up on the forum.
    Hoosier, not hoser.
    2000.5 Mille R - Ti Shotguns & lots of Evo shtuff
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  4. #4
    Writus Moderatus budoist's Avatar
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    Moved so you can hopefully get more responses. WAFO.

  5. #5
    apriliaforum expert JCG's Avatar
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    Yes, you can find the initial timing with marks on a gear inside the right side cover (or left,it's been a while). I'll have a look to see if I can find the technical service info. It was on an old computer that went tits up so it will be iffy.
    In the meantime,check out this thread: https://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/...le-engineering

    I made a similar mistake when building a big bore motor. I think I had to turn the motor over 30 times before the marks lined up. If it's only the rear, your not so bad off.
    Last edited by JCG; 07-08-2019 at 11:55 PM.
    Chris
    What kind of bike is that?
    It's an Aprilia!!!
    Who makes them?
    .......... lets go of clutch lever.

  6. #6
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    Thinking logically about it, since it's a 60 V-Twin, and knowing that the camshafts in the front head spin the opposite direction to those in the rear, you should be able to salvage it even with no other reference than the front cylinder (but definitely scour the forum and wider web for anything more straight forward than the below).

    Because the camshafts in each head are driven from opposite sides of the engine and rotate oppositely, they are essentially the same items front-to-rear, in the sense that they will look to be "clocked" the same at each cylinder's respective TDC. That is, the lobes will be facing the same way relative to the head when observed from the same angle (with respect to the cam drive).

    The timing between the cylinders is separated at 300 / 420. So the front cylinder fires, then the rear cylinder fires 300 later before the crank rotates more than one full rotation, i.e. the remaining 420 of the 720 in a four stroke cycle, for the front to fire again.


    So, observe how the front cams are timed at TDC or some other easily obtained timing on the front cylinder, which I assume should still be timed correctly. Then rotate the engine forwards by 300 (use a long bar on the crank nose, line it up with the front cylinder, rotate the crank "forwards" - same direction as the wheels in forward motion - until the bar is in line with the rear cylinder) and put the rear cams in the same way as they were in the front (use photos, markings on the sprockets etc). Double check exact timing (i.e. TDC) via an appropriate method (gauge down spark plug hole, for example, timing marks if available; degree wheel if practical / reliable enough) before fitting / fixing.

    As long as you get your crank reference (TDC) bang on, the difference between one sprocket tooth and another should be visually obvious in terms of the camshaft lobe orientation.


    The upper balance shaft is another consideration altogether.
    With admittedly some difficulty, we can work this out as well if needed.
    Last edited by IndelibleInk; 07-09-2019 at 02:04 PM. Reason: numbers
    2009 Shiver (White) | UK

  7. #7
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    Am i missing something - and i will admit that i might be. But if the crank locking tool is in the right place for locking the crank at TDC for the rear cylinder, surely its just a matter of aligning the cams properly to the factory marks and everything is disco?

    Having had the cams of my Mille out over winter so set the valve clearances this is more or less how i did it. Obviously i locked the crank first before pulling the cams and because i am a belt and braces kinda guy i hooked a bungie cord through the Camchain and kept tension on it so it stayed put on the crank sprocket.

    Chris

  8. #8
    apriliaforum expert kzmille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndelibleInk View Post
    ...The timing between the cylinders is separated at 300 / 520. So the front cylinder fires, then the rear cylinder fires 300 later before the crank rotates more than one full rotation, i.e. the remaining 520 of the 720 in a four stroke cycle, for the front to fire again...
    520 should be 420.
    This is America. Use your turn signals or WE WILL KILL YOU - remember Sandra Bland

  9. #9
    apriliaforum expert kzmille's Avatar
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    What do you mean by, "blew the heads/head?"
    This is America. Use your turn signals or WE WILL KILL YOU - remember Sandra Bland

  10. #10
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    Ha, basic maths. Thanks kz, edited for future folk.

    Having just now read the official procedure, I think it best not to follow my approach and instead do it properly and try to get all the marks lined up, if only for the benefit of the next owner...
    2009 Shiver (White) | UK

  11. #11
    apriliaforum expert kzmille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by briguy9696 View Post
    ...timing is now FUCKED!!!!!...I'm fucked...
    It's not really that bad. Blown heads aside - hope you'll explain that - if only the rear head was disassembled it will be easy to get back on track. A little concerned about what the damage is and just what all the bolts were that have been removed. The important thing at this point is to not disassemble the cam drive on the front head. That is key to getting easily back without tearing the right and left sides of the engine down.
    This is America. Use your turn signals or WE WILL KILL YOU - remember Sandra Bland

  12. #12
    apriliaforum expert kzmille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agoldfish View Post
    ...I hooked a bungie cord through the Camchain and kept tension on it so it stayed put on the crank sprocket...
    People seem to obsess over this but it really is not necessary on these engines. Once the crank is locked at TDC it really doesn't matter if the chain moves. It has no marks. With the crank locked all that is needed is to line up the marks on the cam sprockets with the head surface. It's always a good idea to take a picture of this arrangement before disassembling.
    This is America. Use your turn signals or WE WILL KILL YOU - remember Sandra Bland

  13. #13
    apriliaforum expert JCG's Avatar
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    Also, to reattach the head you'll probably want a new gasket and you'll need an extension for your torque wrench to properly torque one of stud nuts.

    https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scri...cc+Head+Gasket

    Rebuilding these motors is not cheap!
    Chris
    What kind of bike is that?
    It's an Aprilia!!!
    Who makes them?
    .......... lets go of clutch lever.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kzmille View Post
    People seem to obsess over this but it really is not necessary on these engines. Once the crank is locked at TDC it really doesn't matter if the chain moves. It has no marks. With the crank locked all that is needed is to line up the marks on the cam sprockets with the head surface. It's always a good idea to take a picture of this arrangement before disassembling.
    I used the Bungie cord because i saw i done that way in a YouTube Video, which obviously doesnt make it right. But i am glad i was not over thinking it with the crank locking.

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