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Thread: Improving heads

  1. #1
    apriliaforum expert JMH's Avatar
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    Improving heads

    Improving heads:

    A question:

    I want to replace cam chains and possibly valve springs on the heads I have at some point so in case I want to do stage 2.0 on my 1060 at the same time what would be the best course of action?


    I have now 2005 heads in the bike (could be 2004 as well, the bike was announced to be 2005 but it could be the registering year as well). The timing is 113/110 (IN/EX) at the moment due to the way the sprockets were machined so will get new gears too in the process and adjust the timing to 110/110 or 110/114.


    I also have my original GenI heads and cams stored away.


    Some options:


    Getting aftermarket cams, Kent something else? Why/ why not?


    Getting 2007-> intake cams and using the GenI intake cams in exhaust position?


    Some porting could come into question if I find someone capable of doing it


    Maybe new valves too



    Project list (maybe)


    Cam chains

    Cam gears

    Valve springs

    Head gaskets

    (Cams, which ones?)

    (New valves & retainers)

    (porting)



    With some good info I could start to buy stuff gradually and have a go at this next winter.



    Best picture of the current cams
    Last edited by JMH; 03-24-2019 at 03:14 PM.
    Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & KTM 625 SXC -05
    My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.

  2. #2
    apriliaforum Junkie NitroArgi's Avatar
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    Hello bud,

    Depending on what you are trying to achieve the best route is to source a set of later heads and work with them.

    I find no reason why you would want to change springs or valves...OEM are pretty good.

    Porting for sure will give you some more power and four intake cams will be sufficient if timed correctly. Personally I wouldn't go with Kent cams, try: http://www.cammotorsport.eu/motociclo/strada/aprilia

  3. #3
    apriliaforum expert JMH's Avatar
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    ^
    Springs and valves, especially springs, need replacing as they are close to 15 years old. I would use OEM. Valves depending on wear. I am just prepared in case I need to.

    The later heads have 33 mm exhaust valves instead of the 31 mm ones I have. Some say it is significant, some say it is not. I'd reckon using money on porting the ones I have is the cleverer move unless someone can offer me a complete package with cams and heads.

    Thanks for the link. The V2 cams are quite aggressive. For sure I would use new springs and retainers with those.

    Any experience on the valve to piston clearance and timing with those?

    Inlet lift is: 12 vs. 11,8 stnd, duration 300 vs. 288
    Exhaus lift is: 11,3 vs. 10,6 stnd, duration 292 vs. 280

    GenI inlet is 11,4 and 262 (given as an example if used on the exhaust side)

    Trying to achieve?.... spend cash and maybe create a couple of hp on the side, haha. Engine needs to be reliable.

    Edit: reading between the lines I get that porting + using the GenI intake cams at the exhaust position could be a reliable improvement. Hmm... whou might be able to TIG weld those?
    Last edited by JMH; 03-24-2019 at 02:58 AM.
    Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & KTM 625 SXC -05
    My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.

  4. #4
    apriliaforum expert FASTER !'s Avatar
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    JMH , if you are looking to improve your BB , I would go for 108/112 cam timing with possibly a "bit" of porting on the stock cylinders. I did a very similar build on my 1103 some time ago and recently my stocker got a full gearbox bearing replacement which allowed me to give the heads a looking at.

    Now for the porting I am estimating around a 10-12 percent increase at the wheel , maybe up to 15 percent in torque on my 1103 but that thing is just a ridiculous Engine period.
    I attached some picks , if you have done some porting you will be well versed with the theory. When I started I used dimensions which Gabro posted a hell of a long time ago , which I doubt you may find anymore.
    As a reference point , scale the pictures for port sizes using the size on the valve guide ID and extrapolate , then Inlets need very little work but you will literally loose about 4 tablespoons of alloy from the exhaust ports on each head.

    For me , the attraction of porting my own gen 1 heads was for shits and giggles , and I enjoyed the process and the sense of satisfaction is gratifying.

    The choke point on the exhaust port side of the stock cylinders is very easy to see and feel , measurements can be made for depth with a thin steel ruler and width with a set of internal calipers. I had a lot of fun a enjoyed the process immensely.

    By the way , on my stocker , the valve guides were within factory limits at 98 000 kilos , the valves were good and just needed lapping , the springs and collets were reused as I could not see or measure any wear , and the valve stems were as new.

    I built my 1103 with that motor at 50k kilos , that now has close to 100k kilos and is due a strip down and rebuild , no notable oil consumption , no smoking , and was used mostly for trackdays.
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    V990 is long lived in my experience !!!
    SPEED IS RELATIVE OFFICER

  5. #5
    apriliaforum expert JMH's Avatar
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    ^
    Cheers. Does this apply to Gen2 38/ 31 mm heads I have?

    And my question is probably more related to cam options.
    Last edited by JMH; 03-24-2019 at 04:07 PM.
    Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & KTM 625 SXC -05
    My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.

  6. #6
    apriliaforum expert jess67's Avatar
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    If you are looking for best bang for buck, I would use dual inlet cams(gen2 if possible). That will give you the extra duration and lift on the exhaust side. A choke point would be retaining the 31mm exhaust valves especially with the BB kit. Easy enough to change to the 33mm valves, 4 valves and seats cut to suit.
    I'm running Kent3 inlets and moved OEM inlets to exhaust side. I followed Gabro's advice on valve to piston clearance, 2.25mm on inlet and 3mm on the exhaust.
    I was going to run aftermarket valves and picked up some Kibblewhite valve spring kits to suit Canam ds450, but since sticking to OEM valves, my engine builder thinks the Kibblewhite springs may have too much seat pressure for OEM valves. The spring kits have titanium spring retainers so they are in my build.
    It's been mentioned plenty of times in BB build threads about decent gains to be made around valve seats. I had some heads prepped by a pro shop who did a nice port job but the multi angle valve seats are works of art. Any decent head builder can perform this service.

  7. #7
    apriliaforum expert JMH's Avatar
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    ^
    Thanks. So, you got Kent 3 on the intake and GenII intake on the exhaust. What timing did you end up with to be on the safe side with the clearance?
    Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & KTM 625 SXC -05
    My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.

  8. #8
    apriliaforum expert jess67's Avatar
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    Motor is being built now, dropped the bearing shells off today.
    Going with 110/114 cam timing , so it should run hard up top.
    As you know once you decide on the timing it's final - unless you are a god like Gabro and can adjust it, motor in the bike

  9. #9
    apriliaforum expert JMH's Avatar
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    ^
    Cheers. If the clearance is there with that timing it should improve by having 110/110. Might do that 110/114 as well. Just saves me of doing the measurement, perhaps.

    Anyway, point of this exercise is to have a ready made plan with needed parts and a rough budget in my drawer (once you start with used heads you never know how many seats and new valves you end up getting in the end. Everything suspicious should be changed).

    Those damn cam chains need replacing at some point. I do not trust the buggers... or to put it so that what is the point of timing an engine with old stretched chains like I have now, haha!.

    Keep me posted!

    I myself have replaced the PCIII with Gabro bespoke chip now and will head to a dyno room in few weeks time. The street & track riding season will soon start.

    I'll be posting on my build thread.
    Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & KTM 625 SXC -05
    My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.

  10. #10
    apriliaforum expert FASTER !'s Avatar
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    For what its worth , I found 110/110 a bit "flat" in the mid and I found very little gain in constantly chasing the red line on my motors with 110 timing and above.

    The Gen 1 heads really do come alive on top with a bit of porting and slightly conservative timing will help you keep everything together with the odd missed shift and aggressive down change. I use 9800 rpm as a shift up point and on 16/43 the motor falls back nicely into the meat of the torque band.

    On a side note , I did a couple of track days on my 100k kilo stocker and I found she could run with a very well tuned and set up Repsol CBR 600 , even with compromised aerodynamics by comparison. If I pulled my finger out I could get past and eventually pull a gap. The chap on the CBR is much younger than me and his lack of fear was patently obvious by some apparently ambitious outbraking moves , where upon I could cut back up the inside.
    CBR Chap was a bit deflated when he saw the mileage on my Tuono !

    Seriously though , my Tuono's were the best money I have ever spent on motorcycles , I have a 2013 RSV4 Factory on BST's and its actually far to serious a motorcycle for me

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    SPEED IS RELATIVE OFFICER

  11. #11
    apriliaforum expert JMH's Avatar
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    @jess67:

    Did you send your cams to Kent for regrinding? Are they able to do forged ones or did you send the press-fit cams?

    Regrinding of existing cams seems to be the way with Kent.
    Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & KTM 625 SXC -05
    My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.

  12. #12
    apriliaforum expert jess67's Avatar
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    No, I bought the inlets outright. Not cheap but peace of mind with billets. Not sure if you can do much with the Gen2 cams as in regrinding, the Gen1 cams might be ok after the lobes are welded.
    I also looked at Web Cams as they do billets for the Can Am ds450 and can grind anything you want, but price was about the same as Kents.

    I just had a look on the AF1 website and 33mm exhaust valves are no longer available AP0254870, hope I don't need any soon.

  13. #13
    apriliaforum expert JMH's Avatar
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    ^
    OK. As I got an offer for a regrind from Kent.

    Good to know about the 33 mm valves as well.

    Might be that the best I can do is to use all round GenII intake cams or to source something else for the intake side (like linked a lot earlier by Nitro).
    Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & KTM 625 SXC -05
    My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.

  14. #14
    apriliaforum expert Gabro's Avatar
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    33 ex does only perform marginally better that 31. and on side note big valve genII intake port is bigger than small valve port... giving more midrange, but better topend can be achieved using small valves heads.
    Aprilia bikes ECU tuning and reflashes since 2004!
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  15. #15
    apriliaforum expert Gabro's Avatar
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    don't go regrind, base circle became too little, i don't like it. if you do want 12mm lift cams, do it with billets.
    Aprilia bikes ECU tuning and reflashes since 2004!
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