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Thread: Airsal's Orange Leaflet

  1. #1
    apriliaforum Junkie
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    Airsal's Orange Leaflet

    .....
    Last edited by THE BROWN NOTE; 04-09-2019 at 09:19 PM.

  2. #2
    apriliaforum Member HeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE BROWN NOTE View Post
    Required switching to a hotter B8ES plug to stop rich fueling loading the engine up.
    This is a fatal mistake. The hole in the piston, precisely because of this, I guess. I would advise you to buy and install an EGT meter. This is a useful thing in such cases. And don't use too hot plugs. It doesn't work well.
    Last edited by HeM; 02-13-2019 at 04:56 PM.
    Aprilia RS50 1999. Bidalot RR 70 , Top Racing (Jasil) crankshaft, Motoforce PWK 24 carburetor , V-Force 3 reed valve , Polini Big Evoliution air filter , Top Performances intake manifold, Stage6 R/T digital internal rotor ignition PVL, Top Performances kevlar clutch, Metrakit Pro Race 3 exhaust , 13/47 gearing

  3. #3
    apriliaforum Member HeM's Avatar
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    You checked squish clearance when you installed the top end? Do you have a picture of the plug from this engine? What was a color of the plug?
    Last edited by HeM; 02-13-2019 at 06:27 PM.
    Aprilia RS50 1999. Bidalot RR 70 , Top Racing (Jasil) crankshaft, Motoforce PWK 24 carburetor , V-Force 3 reed valve , Polini Big Evoliution air filter , Top Performances intake manifold, Stage6 R/T digital internal rotor ignition PVL, Top Performances kevlar clutch, Metrakit Pro Race 3 exhaust , 13/47 gearing

  4. #4
    apriliaforum Member HeM's Avatar
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    A better way to reduce detonation is to increase a squish clearance to 1-1.2mm. Use of hot plugs is dangerous. Overheating and melting of the top of the piston. Also, you may have a lean mixture of high rpms. Maybe the main jet is too small. Or you have problems with the exhaust system. Or maybe there are several problems right away. After all, if you installed the EGT meter, this device will alert you to a dangerous piston temperature, and you could avoid a major accident in time.
    Last edited by HeM; 02-13-2019 at 07:04 PM.
    Aprilia RS50 1999. Bidalot RR 70 , Top Racing (Jasil) crankshaft, Motoforce PWK 24 carburetor , V-Force 3 reed valve , Polini Big Evoliution air filter , Top Performances intake manifold, Stage6 R/T digital internal rotor ignition PVL, Top Performances kevlar clutch, Metrakit Pro Race 3 exhaust , 13/47 gearing

  5. #5
    apriliaforum Member HeM's Avatar
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    When you use a heavily hot spark plug, there is no longer any meaning in the ignition time. Probably not even need to explain why. The mixture ignites not from a spark, but from the overheated plug. Then a detonation and the holey piston is imminent. Quotation. " And these terms are very misleading, as in all cases the object is to match the thermal characteristics of plug and engine so the electrode temperature will stay between 700 F. and 1000 F." One more. "1600-1800 F.; and at some point (which depends upon compression ratio, mixture, throttle setting, etc.), the electrodes will be hot enough to cause pre-ignition. So, to be safe, plug temperatures must be held between 700 F. and 1000 F."
    Last edited by HeM; 02-14-2019 at 05:51 AM.
    Aprilia RS50 1999. Bidalot RR 70 , Top Racing (Jasil) crankshaft, Motoforce PWK 24 carburetor , V-Force 3 reed valve , Polini Big Evoliution air filter , Top Performances intake manifold, Stage6 R/T digital internal rotor ignition PVL, Top Performances kevlar clutch, Metrakit Pro Race 3 exhaust , 13/47 gearing

  6. #6
    apriliaforum Member HeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE BROWN NOTE View Post
    Delayed spark timing cools plug temperature. It ain't detonating with the 8
    While engine speed is low, perhaps. But when you reach the maximum rpms, your piston photos show something else. I'm trying to guess it's not the detonation we see in these photos. There are no typical damage to the piston edges. This is especially noticeable in the bottom photo. This is (most likely) pre-ignition.
    Last edited by HeM; 02-14-2019 at 08:56 AM.
    Aprilia RS50 1999. Bidalot RR 70 , Top Racing (Jasil) crankshaft, Motoforce PWK 24 carburetor , V-Force 3 reed valve , Polini Big Evoliution air filter , Top Performances intake manifold, Stage6 R/T digital internal rotor ignition PVL, Top Performances kevlar clutch, Metrakit Pro Race 3 exhaust , 13/47 gearing

  7. #7
    apriliaforum Member HeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE BROWN NOTE View Post
    Few years back, the tip melted off a B8ES on stock timing, with zero piston damage.
    It was a warning sign, but you did not draw any conclusions from that.
    Aprilia RS50 1999. Bidalot RR 70 , Top Racing (Jasil) crankshaft, Motoforce PWK 24 carburetor , V-Force 3 reed valve , Polini Big Evoliution air filter , Top Performances intake manifold, Stage6 R/T digital internal rotor ignition PVL, Top Performances kevlar clutch, Metrakit Pro Race 3 exhaust , 13/47 gearing

  8. #8
    apriliaforum expert Scoop's Avatar
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    Going back to the very first post, maybe I'm a bit thick but I'm struggling to understand this thread. Why did it take 6 years of riding on standard ignition timing before this issue arose. Are you saying that you fitted an Airsal cylinder and then it happened? If so why did the holed piston wreck a Malossi cylinder? In short, what is your overall conclusion from the experience?

  9. #9
    apriliaforum expert Scoop's Avatar
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    Ok got it. I work with Total UK who supply most of the supermarkets with petrol, I'll ask the question. Whose fuel are you using?

  10. #10
    apriliaforum Member HeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE BROWN NOTE View Post
    I reckon fuel companies have lowered octane rating.
    It's incredible. And how do customers with cars and everyone else? There should be complaints about fuel quality.
    Aprilia RS50 1999. Bidalot RR 70 , Top Racing (Jasil) crankshaft, Motoforce PWK 24 carburetor , V-Force 3 reed valve , Polini Big Evoliution air filter , Top Performances intake manifold, Stage6 R/T digital internal rotor ignition PVL, Top Performances kevlar clutch, Metrakit Pro Race 3 exhaust , 13/47 gearing

  11. #11
    apriliaforum expert Scoop's Avatar
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    "Micro smokers" ha ha love it.

    Are you running regular or super unleaded? Maybe try a tank of Shell V power to verify your theory??

  12. #12
    apriliaforum Member HeM's Avatar
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    I found this kind of information here, maybe you will be interested. https://www.polini.com/en/technical-.../instructions/ The Polini CP carburetor is lighter than other carburetors available on the market and under certain conditions it may cause fuel emulsion problems. Air bubbles are sucked into the main jet casing very serious problems to the engine that becomes poor despite having a big or correct jet; the engine begins to detonate up to its break.
    Aprilia RS50 1999. Bidalot RR 70 , Top Racing (Jasil) crankshaft, Motoforce PWK 24 carburetor , V-Force 3 reed valve , Polini Big Evoliution air filter , Top Performances intake manifold, Stage6 R/T digital internal rotor ignition PVL, Top Performances kevlar clutch, Metrakit Pro Race 3 exhaust , 13/47 gearing

  13. #13
    apriliaforum Member HeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE BROWN NOTE View Post
    Few years back, the tip melted off a B8ES
    Someone wrote it....
    Aprilia RS50 1999. Bidalot RR 70 , Top Racing (Jasil) crankshaft, Motoforce PWK 24 carburetor , V-Force 3 reed valve , Polini Big Evoliution air filter , Top Performances intake manifold, Stage6 R/T digital internal rotor ignition PVL, Top Performances kevlar clutch, Metrakit Pro Race 3 exhaust , 13/47 gearing

  14. #14
    Honest always, feared often Micah / AF1 Racing's Avatar
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    Modern cars (90s and newer) almost all use detonation sensors, then that data is used to RETARD spark timing until detonation goes away. I run 10 heat range plugs in most small bore steo strokes without issue on the street? Id definitely never run an 8 unless it was a very low compression engine like my Lawn Boy 2T mower but even that I have a BUHX surface discharge plug in, 8+ heat range as it has zero internal volume.
    Diminished expectations is the key to happiness in life.

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