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Thread: SpitFire windscreens fit Madstadt mounts

  1. #16
    apriliaforum Member FuturaWales's Avatar
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    Sadly, experienced this on my way home on my newly purchased capo rally raid today.
    I was half expecting it to be fair, and was looking into this already.

    So the solution that works for you is to use the ADVALP brackets from Poland, and an aftermarket screen with a better shape?
    And to make your own infill piece for gap behind the facelift screen?

    Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
    2003 Caponord ETV 1000 Rally Raid
    Formerly owner of a specced out Futura....sorely missed.

  2. #17
    apriliaforum expert haga lout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuturaWales View Post
    Sadly, experienced this on my way home on my newly purchased capo rally raid today.
    I was half expecting it to be fair, and was looking into this already.

    So the solution that works for you is to use the ADVALP brackets from Poland, and an aftermarket screen with a better shape?
    And to make your own infill piece for gap behind the facelift screen?

    Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
    The best setup I’ve found for a mk2 was to fit a mk1 screen with four bits of Ali square bar 10mm x10mm and raise the screen up by 25 mm

  3. #18
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    Actually, you can use almost anything from spacers to brackets to hold the windscreen and try what position works best. There are plenty of variable that create buffeting but in my opinion it is the angle of attack and the height of the windscreen that has the most effect followed by a good air gap to equalize the pressure between the front and backside of the screen. If you have low pressure behind the screen you will get buffeting unless the airflow over the top also goes over the top of your helmet and doesn't then draw you closer to the windscreen, an almost impossible thing to do with such a small windscreen.

    Contrary to what one might think, trying to reduce the frontal area by angleing the screen back is counter productive because unlike sport bikes we tend not to hunker down so that our helmets become part of a smooth presentation to the airflow. Cut your screen short enough so that the airflow hits your face shield just above the bottom and everything gets smooth but everything coming at you will also impact your face shield. So, getting the shield more upright does the trick so long as you equalize the pressure behind the screen . While you can't eliminate the pressure difference completely you can reduce it alot by increasing the distance the windscreen sir from the fairing behind it. Just don't go too much, find that happy point which will depend on how tall your screen it, the height of your helmet in relation to it and the angle of the screen. The greater the gap the more effective the reduction in pressure will be. You can also open up some holes in the screen which is what Vetter did that then went on to become the latter air gaps almost every fairing screen has today on adv, ST and tourers.

    Make the screen big enough and you need nothing as the turbulence is well behind both rider and passenger. We are stuck with smaller screens.

    Simple rubber spacers will let you get to an adjustment that works. In hardware stores they are called drain stops. Drill them through and just create the gap and angle you want.

    The side panels seem to work because they fight against the turbulence but the real problem is low pressure that allows air flow coming around the side to be drawn around and up toward the riders helmet. Eliminate most of the low pressure and the side panels do almost nothing and aren't needed.

    The more equal the pressure behind and in front of the screen is the farther behind you the buffeting or turbulence sets up.

    One thing to be very aware of is the amount of pressure exerted on the front of the windscreen . The amount of pressure is amazing and at close to triple digit speeds there is enough force you"d have a hard time holding the screen against the wind using your hands. For that reason simply making the screen larger or higher isn't a good idea unless you do something to reduce the pressure imbalance otherwise over time the screen and attachment points can become stressed and bad things can happen and they have happened when huge windscreens ala the bigger is better philosophy took hold.

    I just got a latest actuator in hand, small little bugger but soon the electric adjustable windscreen will be a reality.
    Last edited by CapoEVT; 07-18-2019 at 09:04 PM.
    ETV stands for Extra-Terrestrial Vehicle. The only thing better than having one is having two.

  4. #19
    apriliaforum Member FuturaWales's Avatar
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    Thanks.
    I have some things to experiment with then

    Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
    2003 Caponord ETV 1000 Rally Raid
    Formerly owner of a specced out Futura....sorely missed.

  5. #20
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    The easiest way I found so far is to use duct tape (like the Gorilla brand) and those rubber stops or bumpers. Use them as spacers and then duct tape the screen in place. Go for a short ride, just not over about 50 mph. That will give you a real good idea. Then mouth it up with hardware. Increase the speed to get the effect there. Adjust but it should be very close already.

    This has the virtue of no drilling, fabricating or doing stuff you'll regret later.

    Making the standoff from the fairing about 1.5" has an amazing effect on reducing buffeting.

    The rubber stoppers let you shave them down to adjust the attack angle easily and they are cheap. Double them up if you need to.

    TIP: do not leave the Gorilla duct tape in place overnight or in hot weather. It is tenacious stuff. Don't apply it over any decals either.

    If you need to remove latex paint some idiot painted over oil based paint, Gorilla duct tape will peel that crap off instantly.
    ETV stands for Extra-Terrestrial Vehicle. The only thing better than having one is having two.

  6. #21
    apriliaforum Member FuturaWales's Avatar
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    So I've had some time since this post to play around with a few things.

    I fitted a MRA style clip on adjustable deflector. That helped get the flow over the top of my helmet at least and disrupted some of the turbulent flow, but wasnt enough on it's own.

    So then I fitted the ADVALP adjustable screen bracket (like Palmer Products one, but cheaper).
    That also helped, but not necessarily any more than the lip on it's own.

    Then I combined the 2 together, that gave lots of adjustability etc, but the buffeting on the top/sides of my helmet persists.

    I think that now, it's just evident that the mk2 screen is too narrow at the top, so that the air bending around it ends up hitting the helmet awkwardly rather than creating a suitable bubble.

    So in my opinion the ideal solution is a wider screen. So the options are mk1 screen as Haga suggested, a laminar lip - which effectively widens the top part of the screen, or some kind of custom array of screen side extensions.

    I found a thread on ApriliaOnTheRoad about a group buy in 2012/3 for a custom lip for the mk2 which went up both sides and over the top. This seems like the perfect solution, but I cant find anywhere to replicate it or purchase one.

    Heres the thread: it's in Italian of course but if you use Google chrome it automatically translates it all on the fly. Very clever, and useful.

    http://www.apriliaontheroad.com/foru...p?f=27&t=28318

    Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
    2003 Caponord ETV 1000 Rally Raid
    Formerly owner of a specced out Futura....sorely missed.

  7. #22
    apriliaforum Junkie
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    I'm inclined to agree re narrowness. Looking at more modern screen designs e.g. GS1250 there's a definite trend towards screens flaring out at the top rather than narrowing.
    I've got a Madstad set-up on it's way to me so I'll try and remember to post feedback. My criticism of the PP version is that it only tilts away from you whereas I wanted the ability for the screen to tilt towards me as well.
    One bit of feedback I had on the laminar lip is that "it's useless"...
    I like the look of that Italian group buy custom lip - keep us posted.

  8. #23
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    CalSci used to have an article on why the laminar lip is pretty much useless and why it's counter-productive to use one.

    Basically it creates turbulence and tries to have that take place behind the riders helmet. I've found that a laminar lip works fine at one speed and height but miserably at other speeds and different heights. Other than huge barn door windshields nothing yet seems to beat having your helmet in the airflow. The helmet makers go through a lot of effort to test their designs and it's likely those tests don't include the huge variety of windshields but rather a naked bike riding style.
    ETV stands for Extra-Terrestrial Vehicle. The only thing better than having one is having two.

  9. #24
    apriliaforum newb matisse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuturaWales View Post

    I fitted a MRA style clip on adjustable deflector. That helped get the flow over the top of my helmet at least and disrupted some of the turbulent flow, but wasnt enough on it's own.

    So then I fitted the ADVALP adjustable screen bracket (like Palmer Products one, but cheaper).
    That also helped, but not necessarily any more than the lip on it's own.
    Thanks for the ADVALP tip! Based on some earlier posts I made last year a DIY attempt in that direction (added about 1.5 cm more space at the lower screen bolts) which reduced buffeting with the stock screen, but not really with a touring screen. This spring I got the MRA xcreen touring lip with clip-attachment (no drilling), which when extended up all the way to be parallel with the screen, removed all noise and buffeting ... upto 80 km/h. Beyond 100 km/h it's still bad. At times sideways turbulence is also strong, which I can't recall happening earlier.

    I just ordered the ADVALP mount hoping that more air under the screen would reduce buffeting further and at least there'll be more adjustability.

  10. #25
    apriliaforum newb matisse's Avatar
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    First experiences update. I installed the ADVALP bracket under a touring screen. Each bracket is attached with only two bolts and the larger than OEM screen seems a bit wobbly attached to it. In particular with the xcreen on top of it. Stayed in place on the road. Anyway, all them together seem to decrease buffeting a lot. I still want to experiment with different configurations and maybe also the standard screen. Delivery was quick, but it took really long to test as the bike was sitting for weeks due to electronics (and maybe some other) issues, but more of it in another thread.

    ADVALP also sells bike stand pads. Anyone experience with those?

  11. #26
    apriliaforum expert
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    watching this with interest, I have never cured the turbulence issue on my MK2 screen, My only solution on a long ride is to duck forward
    I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy

  12. #27
    apriliaforum Member FuturaWales's Avatar
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    I'm going to experiment with a sheet of plexiglass that I've got in the shed. I'm going to create a template in card on the bike which will be designed to be attached to the stock screen and add width too the top where I think the main issue is. If that has the right effect, I'll dig into how to make a better version and share my findings.

    Also, I may see if theres a stock screen for another bike which can be modified and attached to achieve the same results. The modern touring bikes today have had some significant wind tunnel work, and although I imagine a lot of it is subjective to both bike and rider, the principles are universal.

    My set up as it stands is ADVALP mount on full top upright setting, with a chinese MRA deflector copy mounted on top angled perfectly vertical. This has given me plenty of over the head wind deflection, but it definitely needs more width to create a full rounded bubble for the helmet to sit in.

    I'm confident I'll find something.

    Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
    2003 Caponord ETV 1000 Rally Raid
    Formerly owner of a specced out Futura....sorely missed.

  13. #28
    apriliaforum expert
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    There were some that modified a burgman 400 screen
    I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy

  14. #29
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    Research the past developments of Vetter and CalSci. There isn't really much new anyone is doing, they build on things already done.

    Without adjustability there is no one solution that works for more than a few people. The variables are too great and the perfect windscreen design can be rendered useless simply by wearing a different helmet and changing where on the seat you plant your behind.

    The dreaded buffeting so many experienced and then solved with winglets and blockers never bothered me. I was working on an adjustable (electrically) windscreen but haven't got around to project #83639 to finish it.
    ETV stands for Extra-Terrestrial Vehicle. The only thing better than having one is having two.

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