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Thread: The Punisher Lives Again!

  1. #16
    apriliaforum expert bloodnutt's Avatar
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    Wow.
    What are the canisters under the pillion hump and underneath the rear sub frame for ?
    Do not go gentle into that good night,

    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

  2. #17
    apriliaforum expert derbybrit1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodnutt View Post
    Wow.
    What are the canisters under the pillion hump and underneath the rear sub frame for ?
    The 'cannister' under the pillion hump is the water-methanol pump. The actual cannister under the right rear subframe rail is a stainless tank to hold the water-methanol mixture. I buy it by the gallon from Devil's Own. A tank last a pretty long time, because it doesn't start spraying until 6 psi boost.

    Team Punisher/AF1 Racing:
    World's Fastest Aprilia RSV 200.8mph
    Texas Mile Record Holder - Fastest Twin
    ------------------------------

    2014/2015 Moto West Grand Prix Formula Singles Champion
    2016 WERA West Clubman Expert and D Superbike Champion

  3. #18
    apriliaforum expert jess67's Avatar
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    I thought my Bazzaz took up a lot of space
    The 2 blue caps on the vacuum ports on the throttle body, are they your nitrous ports? Also I have done stepper motor delete and added a manual idle adjust like yours, but I am yet to run it. No problems with that? Thanks

  4. #19
    apriliaforum expert derbybrit1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jess67 View Post
    I thought my Bazzaz took up a lot of space
    The 2 blue caps on the vacuum ports on the throttle body, are they your nitrous ports? Also I have done stepper motor delete and added a manual idle adjust like yours, but I am yet to run it. No problems with that? Thanks
    Yes, those are the capped-off nitrous mixer nozzles. Just left them installed as a reminder of what once was.

    Manual idle...why would it be a problem? I took the hardware off a set of 51mm TB's, as I assume you did as well. It is handy for seasonal temperature related adjustments.

    The Megasquirt ecu is pretty much in the same place as oem. Sitting on top of it is a wideband controller, and the wireless transceiver I use to tune it from my notebook PC. In the back space is the water-methanol controller, Baro sensor, relays, and water-methanol pump. MAP sensor is bolted to the plastic tank tray below the left subframe rail near the tank.

    The wiring harness is from a 2006 GSXR1000. It had all the connections I needed, especially since the ecu was built to plug into that harness. I repurposed the wiring for 2 injectors and 2 coils, and configured the ecu for odd-fire 60 degree v-twin. It will work with any type engine 1-12 cylinders.

    Team Punisher/AF1 Racing:
    World's Fastest Aprilia RSV 200.8mph
    Texas Mile Record Holder - Fastest Twin
    ------------------------------

    2014/2015 Moto West Grand Prix Formula Singles Champion
    2016 WERA West Clubman Expert and D Superbike Champion

  5. #20
    apriliaforum expert derbybrit1's Avatar
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    One of the more practical modifications made in putting the Punisher on the street: Modify oil tank to clear supercharger filter. This eliminated the front facing ram-air setup, which lacked ground clearance and collected too much dirt and debris.
    Basically a 'cut and shut' it reduced oil volume by about a quart. Should have thought of this years ago.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Team Punisher/AF1 Racing:
    World's Fastest Aprilia RSV 200.8mph
    Texas Mile Record Holder - Fastest Twin
    ------------------------------

    2014/2015 Moto West Grand Prix Formula Singles Champion
    2016 WERA West Clubman Expert and D Superbike Champion

  6. #21
    apriliaforum expert derbybrit1's Avatar
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    A critical component in converting the Punisher race bike to a street bike was adding headlights. I bought a 2011 Tuono fairing/headlight assembly on eBay, and designed an adapter to mount it. Basically duplicated in aluminum the plastic RSV fairing/air intake mount attachment points and mated to mount points for the fairing. It started out as a solid chunk of 6061 billet. I didn't use any drawings, but I did create a 'route sheet' of all the machining steps I thought it would take to create. No real structural errors, just some dimensions that varied by a few extra thousandths. It bolted right up.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Team Punisher/AF1 Racing:
    World's Fastest Aprilia RSV 200.8mph
    Texas Mile Record Holder - Fastest Twin
    ------------------------------

    2014/2015 Moto West Grand Prix Formula Singles Champion
    2016 WERA West Clubman Expert and D Superbike Champion

  7. #22
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    Awesome, great to see this live again. Great work

  8. #23
    apriliaforum Member Konstantin's Avatar
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    Fantastic details Marc!
    Im always fascinated about the power-delivery from the Supercharger and how much more smooth it runs compared to N/A.
    And how easy it is to map it as both cylinders running exactly the same AFR / exhaust gases.

    It makes so much fun when your bike is equal from performance, suspension, chassis and brakes compared to a 1299 or 1199 Pani, S1000RR, R1 or RSV4 RF but has this old grumpy and rough Austrian Rotax twin.

    My SpoonValley-SC RSVR is much more simple compared
    Just a flashed ECU for Basic and Powercommander V with Autotune AT300 for fuel and ignition tuning (which works very fine), POD300 Gauge for engine & AFR Data and logging, GripOne Tractioncontrol with IMU, Falco water and oil-radiator for space and the same custom Smaltmoto Exhaustsystem from me customized like the one on your Tuono to pass the SC...but with mordern underseat cans optional for loud tracks. I should start an own thread about my bike as Im currently taking it apart to create something different and new...

    Cheers and merry Christmas

    Konsti
    Last edited by Konstantin; 12-25-2018 at 08:59 AM.
    aprilia tuning parts and dyno center http://www.smaltmoto.com/

  9. #24
    apriliaforum expert derbybrit1's Avatar
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    Good job, Konsti. The Dynojet parts you are using now were not available back when I started this project, but looks to be a great solution. I ultimately ended up with an Alpha-N primary fueling (which is a lot like stock) and a secondary Baro%/Speed Density algorithm for boost load. The amount of fuel is always proportional to MAP, with some potential minor tweaks for volumetric efficiency, if you want to work that hard at it. I don't. So I basically just let the MAP do its thing. The GripOne seems really interesting.

    The differential blowoff valve I use really improves driveability. The original Bosch spec'd by Mr. J does not open until the throttle was almost shut. My bike starts making boost over 3000 rpm at 15% throttle, so you would have to go below that TP to open. Something to think about. It really made wheelies exciting before I changed it.

    Also, I am overdriving the Rotrex with a 70mm drive wheel (70/60). Seems perfectly happy doing it, although technically it could be beyond the 155,000 rpm impeller limit at max engine rpm. Rotrex engineers told me it was not a problem. It will definitely help you make more power, especially in the lower and mid range.

    The water-methanol controller is simple and easy to use. But the packaging for the tank and pump are a bit of an issue. It does a great job of cooling the intake charge and maintaining air density. You would be horrified if you were to log your air intake temperatures. We saw 200 deg F on the AF1 dyno. I have my air temp sensor mounted to the plenum inline with the plenum inlet. Standard GM open cage sensor.

    Good luck with it, and Happy Holidays.
    I look forward to seeing photos on the forum.

    Team Punisher/AF1 Racing:
    World's Fastest Aprilia RSV 200.8mph
    Texas Mile Record Holder - Fastest Twin
    ------------------------------

    2014/2015 Moto West Grand Prix Formula Singles Champion
    2016 WERA West Clubman Expert and D Superbike Champion

  10. #25
    apriliaforum expert derbybrit1's Avatar
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    Konsti - Functionally there is no real difference in our electronics solutions. The difference is that yours are piggyback on top of stock ecu, and mine is an aftermarket ecu with all the features built-in.

    Team Punisher/AF1 Racing:
    World's Fastest Aprilia RSV 200.8mph
    Texas Mile Record Holder - Fastest Twin
    ------------------------------

    2014/2015 Moto West Grand Prix Formula Singles Champion
    2016 WERA West Clubman Expert and D Superbike Champion

  11. #26
    apriliaforum Member
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    Love It!!!
    Glad to see it "Street"ready
    2001 Aprilia Falco, RSV Suspension, RSV4/RSV track fairings,09 1103 motor, Arrow Headers with Custom ceramic coated undertail Exhaust,
    Managed on 1st generation Electronic with a FORZA chip, and PCV.
    There are a few other extras... I am sure I am forgetting somethings

  12. #27
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    wow this thing is pretty amazing.

  13. #28
    apriliaforum expert jess67's Avatar
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    Hi Marc, thanks for all your earlier responses. If you don't mind I just want to ask you a question on ignition timing and how important it is to a modified engine, supercharged and big bore.
    Knowing that you can't adjust ignition timing on the Gen2 other than running an ignijet or equivalent piggy back system, is it critical for a modified motor?
    Some of the information I have read, the big bores work best with some retard, maybe around the mid to low 30's.
    I know Gabro can now do some adjustments to flash the seimens ecu, but unless he has the bike on the dyno it's probably a bit hit and miss. Thanks

  14. #29
    apriliaforum expert Gabro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jess67 View Post
    I know Gabro can now do some adjustments to flash the seimens ecu, but unless he has the bike on the dyno it's probably a bit hit and miss. Thanks
    i have some ignition timing map ready, for stock motor and big bores. but the more your motor go far from stock, less pre-prepped ignition will be spot-on
    Aprilia bikes ECU tuning and reflashes since 2004!
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  15. #30
    apriliaforum expert derbybrit1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jess67 View Post
    Hi Marc, thanks for all your earlier responses. If you don't mind I just want to ask you a question on ignition timing and how important it is to a modified engine, supercharged and big bore.
    Knowing that you can't adjust ignition timing on the Gen2 other than running an ignijet or equivalent piggy back system, is it critical for a modified motor?
    Some of the information I have read, the big bores work best with some retard, maybe around the mid to low 30's.
    I know Gabro can now do some adjustments to flash the seimens ecu, but unless he has the bike on the dyno it's probably a bit hit and miss. Thanks
    First, It may just be the way you wrote it, but an Ignijet is not a piggyback system. It is a replacement ecu.

    Second, you can't go wrong with all things Gabro.

    Third, The Punisher, with 10.3:1 static compression ratio, amazingly uses an ignition curve very close to stock, even at full 13 psi boost. This is on pump gas or race fuel. The MS109 non-oxygenated fuel we used made slightly more power than 93 octane pump gas, but with more detonation resistance. But the methanol injected above 7psi gave all the detonation resistance we needed. Total advance was around 33 degrees, IIRC. It was very tolerant of almost any ignition changes we tried, and the difference between too little advance and too much was a small percentage of hp output. Less is more. No reason to advance to much if there is no tangible benefit. It is the safe choice. Only when you are racing for money or glory is it advisable to take other than the safe choice.

    All that was determined after HOURS on the AF1 dyno. So when you have somebody like Gabro (who has his own dyno and modeling software) give recommendations, I would take them. The small amount of money he charges is well worth it.

    Team Punisher/AF1 Racing:
    World's Fastest Aprilia RSV 200.8mph
    Texas Mile Record Holder - Fastest Twin
    ------------------------------

    2014/2015 Moto West Grand Prix Formula Singles Champion
    2016 WERA West Clubman Expert and D Superbike Champion

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