Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Low sided bike. How to check error codes. Need diag tool?

  1. #1
    apriliaforum newb
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    29

    Low sided bike. How to check error codes. Need diag tool?

    Hello,

    I came across a 2016 RSV4 RR that suffered a low side. It's supposed to be 100% well mechanically.
    It has damaged pretty much every plastic on the left side and a scratch on the gas tank. Is the visible gas tank a metal gas tank or a plastic cover?

    It also has a dent in the frame,
    I think that after repairing or replacing the plastics, one mirror and one rear turn signal, it should be ok. I won't be able to repair the ding in the frame though.

    The average value of KBB and NADA for the bike now is about $11k.

    So I'm tempted to make the seller an offer, and if I agree on the price, then repair the bike and enjoy it. I'm concerned about how hard it can be to re sell the bike some years from now with that ding in the frame.
    Kind of hard to figure out a fair price.
    He told me he was quoted $3k for a complete repair.

    The bike is all stock with a AR slip on. It shouldn't have any ECU flash, but I don't know how to check that either.


    So, wanted to ask the savvy forum members, can I check if there are error codes just by starting the bike and looking at the cluster? Or I need the diagnostic tool?


    Also, any advice on what else to check is appretiated.


    Only picture I have from the bike so far.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG-20181114-WA0001.jpg 
Views:	17 
Size:	263.9 KB 
ID:	371432
    Last edited by Topaz; 12-08-2018 at 03:40 PM.

  2. #2
    apriliaforum expert
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Clearwater, Fl
    Posts
    7,625
    Some insurance companies will total a bike over the frame damage. Besides the nick on the side the frame also looks distorted in front of the fuel tank.

    Does it already have a salvage title on it? If so you may have trouble getting street use insurance unless the frame damage is repaired to the satisfaction of the insurance company so the title can go to rebuilt status to make it streetable.

    I would want a real Aprilia savvy tech sign off on the frame otherwise its only value is for the parts that are not bent up from the crash.

  3. #3
    apriliaforum expert THUNDR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Sioux Falls, SD
    Posts
    1,327
    If it says RACE on the dash is has an updated ecu of some type. Typically most are labeled in some form (writing or a decal -grabro for for example) I have one from AF1 that indicates what’s active - qs, abs on, etc.
    2003 Tuono (In the garage still!)
    2010 Sachs Madass 125
    2011 Kawasaki Concours 1400
    2013 Tuono V4 Black (Most Addicting bike to ride so far!)

  4. #4
    apriliaforum expert NUMBER41's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Wilmington, NC USA
    Posts
    5,102
    Actual answers to your questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz View Post
    Is the visible gas tank a metal gas tank or a plastic cover?
    Neither. The factory tank is plastic. If it's not leaking, you should be fine with some fiberglass/filler and a sand/repaint job. Did the exact same repair on a used tank for my track bike and it works fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz View Post
    It also has a dent in the frame, ...I won't be able to repair the ding in the frame though. I'm concerned about how hard it can be to re sell the bike some years from now with that ding in the frame.
    As others have said, frame repair/replace can be a.) pricey as hell, b.) in the case of repairs, even more dodgy, c.) may still not render the bike registerable or insurable on the street, depending on your state. Used frames come up every so often, and if your mechanically savvy, it's not an impossible job for a home gamer, but you're opening up a huge can of worms if you don't know what you're doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz View Post
    Kind of hard to figure out a fair price. He told me he was quoted $3k for a complete repair.
    He's full of shit or he's being taken for a ride. The bodywork alone would cost almost $3k, that's before the frame issue is even addressed. Either walk or find out the real story. If I were you, I'd try to find out if he's got a lien and whether the insurance company has been notified. Fair price in my mind, assuming it starts and runs without sounding like it has a handful of marbles in the sump is $5000 - $5900.

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz View Post
    The bike is all stock with a AR slip on. It shouldn't have any ECU flash, but I don't know how to check that either.
    If it's got a factory race ECU on it, the dash will say "RACE" at the bottom of the screen. If it's a Brentune or summat, the only way to tell is to hook it up and check. Lot of times the aftermarket tuners will put a sticker or something on the ECU, so you could look at that. However, if it's running an AR slipon without a tune or RACE ECU, I'd be wary. How many miles on it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz View Post
    So, wanted to ask the savvy forum members, can I check if there are error codes just by starting the bike and looking at the cluster? Or I need the diagnostic tool?
    You can go into the diagnostics menu and look for codes, but not all of them will show. The best way to know exactly what's up is to buy the cable and download IAWDiag, then check all the codes. It's not hard to do if you're mechanically/electrically inclined.

    Have you heard it run yet? That would be my worry.


    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz View Post
    Also, any advice on what else to check is appretiated.
    It looks like a total noob lowside due to target fixation if I took a SWAG. The shifter is clearly bent. I'd check the frame there too. It's hard to tell, but there may be something going on with the swingarm, just behind the footpeg. I'd get the bodywork stripped and give it a good going over before I offered him anything. With the tail section missing, there's a good chance that the subframe is tweaked, but it's hard to tell in the single pic. Get some more pics and post them up. People here will be able to help.
    I find tinsel very distracting.

  5. #5
    apriliaforum expert
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Clearwater, Fl
    Posts
    7,625
    A 2016 RSV4 RR has a NADA Dealer Price of $8,140 to $10,710 here in the area around Tampa Bay and that is with some kind of warranty however on a private sale 10% to 20% below that should be expected since there is no warranty, prep, etc that one would expect on a used bike bought at a dealership so private sale price would be closer to $7,000 for a bike in good condition than $11,000 which would be for a pristine 2016 RSV4 RR in excellent condition purchased from a dealer.

    As Number41 said the $3,000 for all repairs is wishful thinking at best so more than double that to cover the frame damage (frame 895460X is about $2,500 plus labor as aluminum trellis frames like that are not considered repairable especially for street use) and the value drops closer to $1,000 on a private sale.

    All the other items are moot until the frame and subframe issues are vetted out plus any damage to the steering head, front forks, handle bars and triple tree. From the damage visible on the front of the frame there is a good possibility that handle bars were forced enough during the crash to make contact there.


    Below are some of the frame and steering components that are questionable on the bike in the photo which could raise the cost of parts alone by almost $6,000 without addressing the tupperware, clutch lever, handle bars, shift lever, etc. You can see how easily this can add up to the bike being considered a total loss by the insurance carrier.

    Frame (about $2,500):
    http://www.af1racing.com/store/Scrip...ME+%2D+8954604

    Swing Arm (about $2,200):
    http://www.af1racing.com/store/Scrip...+%2D+2B0012895

    Rear Sub Frame (about $500):
    http://www.af1racing.com/store/Scrip...ame+%2D+858849


    Triple Tree/Fork Plates

    Upper (about $270):
    http://www.af1racing.com/store/Scrip...e+%2D+2B001450

    Lower ($460):
    http://www.af1racing.com/store/Scrip...l+%2D+2B001448

    Hope he wasn't uninsured/under insured, still owes money on the bike and is looking for someone to buy his mistake to bail him out or somehow collected from the insurance and now wants to turn this into a big profit by not doing the repairs. His insurance if he had proper coverage should be totaling the bike or paying to have it repaired to roadworthy condition after confirmation that the repairs were done correctly.

  6. #6
    apriliaforum newb
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    29
    Thank you very much for the comments guys.


    I went to see the bike yesterday.


    The bike runs well. It fires up right away. Sounds well, at least to me. I rode it around the block at low speed and didn't feel anything wrong. No veering, responds well and brakes well. Idles smoothly.
    Some relative of the seller did a home repair on the fairings so they are all in place now, they are firm to the hand test. He also straightened the shift lever and moved the left passenger peg as a rider peg so the bike is rideable. Handle bar is not bent.
    No service lights when the it turns on. ABS and TC yellow lights go off after some meters of riding.
    No leaks of any type. No signs of previous leaks, Oil level is good. The scratch on the plastic tank is a surface scratch.
    It does have a mark on the swing arm made by the foot peg when it bent.
    The frame has that ding, that looks about the same in person.
    That 'distortion' in the frame that someone mentioned in front of the tank must be a picture effect. I didn't see it person.
    There is another scratch on the frame, very superficial, kind of visible in the picture, in the front end of the triangle that the frame has.


    The only thing not working are the +/- selector buttons on the left bar switches. It got broken and the wires are disconnected, so the bike is stuck in TC-8 and whatever other settings are done with this selector.
    It doesn't say RACE anywhere on the dash.


    The title is clear, no lien, no salvage, no rebuilt, but it's not on the name of the seller.
    The seller is a young guy. The story goes like this: He told me he bought the bike used some months ago but didn't register it on his name and didn't insure the bike (insurance is optional in Florida). Then, right after he bought it, he found a deal on a 2015 red RSV4 and as he liked it more, he decided to buy the red one and sell the gray.
    When I first contacted the seller, he had listed the bike (with pictures) before the crash, and he was asking $12k. The bike has 5600 miles. I called him, but he didn't answer, then I got busy and forgot about the bike. Some weeks later I called him again and he told me he had crashed the bike and was willing to cut the price in 3 or 4k. When I asked about the price yesterday, he said he didn't know what to ask, so I guess he's expecting an offer from me. He's not listing the bike now.




    I didn't do pictures. My bad. I did a short video of the dash as the bike turns on, but it doesn't show anything special.

  7. #7
    apriliaforum expert
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Clearwater, Fl
    Posts
    7,625
    Personal injury is optional if you wear a helmet or you file a bond of financial responsibility. Failure to register and title is not acceptable. Was he on a track or a public street when he crashed it. If on the street that says a whole lot.

    If he does not have the title in his name or at least have the original title signed over to him by the owner of record and notarized then walk away regardless of anything else. The cost of clearing a troubled title can get quite costly. When I sell any vehicle I report the sale to the TAG office turning in my portion of the original title immediately that same day so it will go on public record who the purchaser was and that as of that particular date I was no longer financially responsible for any liability incurred with it. The transaction will be finalized in the office of my banks notary so identifications will be verified and the seal certifying this affixed to the bill of sale and both the buyers and sellers portions of the original title where I legally turn ownership/title over to them. Unless he is a licensed motorcycle dealer he had a set time limit for filing the change of ownership.

    The damages are over the minimum required by law for reporting and there is a limited amount of time in which you are required to report even a single vehicle accident. That there is no salvage title or at least an accident associated with the title is likely because he was riding illegal on an unregistered vehicle and failed to report the single vehicle crash. A clean title on this bike becomes meaningless since the system for tracking these things has basically been evaded through misconduct.

    BTW: His original asking price was a joke and thousands over what it should have been on a private sale in this area. $3,000 maybe now that it's crashed and your really confident about the limit of the damages but only if the title has the transfer recorded on it and was signed by the owner of record however since the date of sale when he bought it is over 30 days ago that can also cause issues for you at the tag office even if the title was all sealed and signed on that date. Yes you might get lucky and the clerk at the tag office might miss the date issue or notice it and let it pass however that's not guaranteed.

  8. #8
    apriliaforum expert J.R. Bob Dobbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    McGaheysville, Va
    Posts
    1,027
    You said he's "willing to cut the price in 3 or 4K". So he's willing to cut the price, after he rides it another few thousand miles?

    Do you mean cut the price TO 3-4K or BY 3-4K? Huge difference. Or do you mean something else?
    Jap bikes suck.

  9. #9
    apriliaforum newb
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R. Bob Dobbs View Post
    You said he's "willing to cut the price in 3 or 4K". So he's willing to cut the price, after he rides it another few thousand miles?

    Do you mean cut the price TO 3-4K or BY 3-4K? Huge difference. Or do you mean something else?
    He was asking $12000 when the bike was good. When I first talked to him, the bike was already crashed and he said he was willing to reduce the price in $3000 or $4000 from the $12000 he was originally asking, so $8000 or $9000 for the bike crashed.
    But yesterday he said he didn't know how much to ask.


    He has the title signed by the previous owner and and a bill of sale not notarized.
    However, the prev owner didn't fill up the purchaser name or the selling price, which he is supposed to do.
    The bike was crashed at the street. Yes, he rode the bike without registration. I don't know if he reported the accident. Didn't think about the legal issues.

Similar Threads

  1. Steering bearing - how to check if they need changing?
    By LoveMyMP3 in forum Piaggio MP3-400
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-24-2017, 03:35 AM
  2. Mana gt low coolant level--how to check
    By durdle in forum 2008-2014 Mana 850 and Mana 850 GT-ABS
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-18-2016, 06:44 PM
  3. How to check error codes on a 2001 sr50 ditech morini ?????
    By Corbin in forum Scarabeo 50 Ditech, SR 50 Ditech, SR Factory
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-17-2014, 10:23 AM
  4. How To Access Error Codes?
    By Phil3 in forum Tuono 1000 R and Tuono Factory (2006-2010)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-04-2010, 04:58 PM
  5. How to read error codes on the 500 Atlantic? Starting problems..
    By almano in forum Aprilia and Piaggio 500cc
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-05-2010, 04:33 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •