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Thread: Energica 2019 models

  1. #16
    apriliaforum expert OZSLR's Avatar
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    I’m with you Pete! Except for the over 60 bit!

    And maybe the sticking matches in someone’s shit, and the crawling on broken glass, but the rest of it, for sure!!!
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  2. #17
    apriliaforum expert millietant's Avatar
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    I desperately want there to be an electric bike that performs as well as (or better than) an ICE bikes, weighs similar, handles similar, has similar range and can be recharged in no more than 10 minutes.

    BUT - above all else, it needs to be comparably priced (including all running costs, and factoring in any cost issues for battery life and or replacement), so that I'm not paying a daft amount of money up-front.

    At the moment, with the type of riding I do, an electric motorcycle simply won't allow me to complete my normal journeys - and that's unacceptable to me, so I can't even contemplate buying one, except as a "toy" and that's neither sensible, nor environmentally friendly.

    Here's hoping the technology catches up with the market needs pretty quickly - and I can be an electric rider.
    Cheers,

    "I am a selfish, self-righteous tosser", a "fucking loser" and now an "absolute fucking idiot"

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  3. #18
    apriliaforum expert craigo298er's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millietant View Post
    I desperately want there to be an electric bike that performs as well as (or better than) an ICE bikes, weighs similar, handles similar, has similar range and can be recharged in no more than 10 minutes.

    BUT - above all else, it needs to be comparably priced (including all running costs, and factoring in any cost issues for battery life and or replacement), so that I'm not paying a daft amount of money up-front.

    At the moment, with the type of riding I do, an electric motorcycle simply won't allow me to complete my normal journeys - and that's unacceptable to me, so I can't even contemplate buying one, except as a "toy" and that's neither sensible, nor environmentally friendly.

    Here's hoping the technology catches up with the market needs pretty quickly - and I can be an electric rider.
    I think you're a decade away from that, if not more. And the 10min charge time? You'd be better off wishing for a standard battery across manufacturers that can be swapped at a charging station.

  4. #19
    apriliaforum expert OZSLR's Avatar
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    Technology is developing. One of our customers here is a leader.

    https://www.tritium.com.au/

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/tritium-...cheaper-62413/
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  5. #20
    apriliaforum expert millietant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigo298er View Post
    I think you're a decade away from that, if not more. And the 10min charge time? You'd be better off wishing for a standard battery across manufacturers that can be swapped at a charging station.
    That's why I'm so against the E-bikes that are being marketed today - even the Energica models. They're all totally flawed as usable street bikes for an average rider - although they'll be ok for limited mileage commuter bikes (as has been pointed out in other threads).

    Why should the public pay through the nose for basically seriously flawed electric bikes, when any ICE powered bike would be shot down in flames if it performed identically and cost as much.

    When the technology is right and I can do a +400 mile day without having to worry about being able to actually make it to my destination (or getting to my destination in a reasonable time), I'll be first in line to buy an E-bike.

    I love the instant linear response, the tractability and controllability of the off-road E-bikes I've tried, as well as the smoothness and tbh (on a long ride) the quietness.

    Hopefully I'll be able to buy one in less than 10 years - I'm thinking it'll likely be around 3 years.
    Cheers,

    "I am a selfish, self-righteous tosser", a "fucking loser" and now an "absolute fucking idiot"

    Me - '03 RSV Mille, '89 FJ 1200 x 2, & '75 TL 125 & Schweizer S300 CBi Helicopter
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  6. #21
    Writus Moderatus budoist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millietant View Post
    That's why I'm so against the E-bikes that are being marketed today - even the Energica models. They're all totally flawed as usable street bikes for an average rider - although they'll be ok for limited mileage commuter bikes (as has been pointed out in other threads).

    Why should the public pay through the nose for basically seriously flawed electric bikes, when any ICE powered bike would be shot down in flames if it performed identically and cost as much.
    I think that this is the wrong approach to look at the situation from. I'm currently reading a book, "The Innovator's Dilemma", that examines the emergence of disruptive technologies and their impact on large, successful businesses. What you see as negatives for the electric bikes are standard growing pains for technologies that drive the modern world. If that line of thinking were universal, we wouldn't even have cars and motorcycles because horses were far more economical transport and work mechanisms than an ICE.

    Right now the technology is still in a nascent phase, where it is niche and expensive because of small volumes. However as that small niche grows the prices will come more in line as the market grows.

    I'm not saying that you should throw your hat in for the product, but rather than be actively against it look at it just as a developing technology that isn't mature enough for mainstream yet but that has potential to get there in time.

  7. #22
    apriliaforum expert craigo298er's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millietant View Post
    That's why I'm so against the E-bikes that are being marketed today - even the Energica models. They're all totally flawed as usable street bikes for an average rider - although they'll be ok for limited mileage commuter bikes (as has been pointed out in other threads).

    Why should the public pay through the nose for basically seriously flawed electric bikes, when any ICE powered bike would be shot down in flames if it performed identically and cost as much.

    When the technology is right and I can do a +400 mile day without having to worry about being able to actually make it to my destination (or getting to my destination in a reasonable time), I'll be first in line to buy an E-bike.

    I love the instant linear response, the tractability and controllability of the off-road E-bikes I've tried, as well as the smoothness and tbh (on a long ride) the quietness.

    Hopefully I'll be able to buy one in less than 10 years - I'm thinking it'll likely be around 3 years.
    Remember Blockbuster? They said that about Netflix...where are they now?

    What about the automobile vs horse?


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  8. #23
    apriliaforum expert Hellgate's Avatar
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    I took one for a short spin last weekend. Wonderful bike! Very quick, and sounds like a Buck Rogers spaceship. I can see owning one for city use and short trips.
    Pete

  9. #24
    apriliaforum expert LEDAero's Avatar
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    If you ride big miles, a focused sports bike wouldn’t be your first choice, no matter what the motive power..

    For most riders, their average daily ride is way under 100km.

    If I wanted to spend $30k on an e-bike, I would already have a bunch of other bikes to choose from to suit various purposes.

    I’m keen to make one for myself.
    “The sad thing is you will never be freer or more yourself than when it’s five in the morning, the sun’s about to rise and you’re out of your mind” Nick

    “Trump? He’s as stupid as a man who bought his stupid at a two for one sale.” Nancy.

  10. #25
    apriliaforum expert millietant's Avatar
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    Craig/Budo - I think you're missing my point.

    I am all for pushing forward the development of electric bikes (like you both) and general technological advancement, but unlike the examples you quoted (where there were some advantages over existing technology for the user and the products actually had a useful lifespan, the current electric bikes offer basically no advantages whatsoever to the average user, they will be outdated and worthless in a very short space of time and yet they are being sold (or are "trying" to be sold) at an astonishing premium.

    The developers are jumping on the back of misguided political impetus and using grants/incentives to eliminate their development risk - with all of the risk being taken by their customers (look at how badly Tesla has performed financially) and "public"/government-backed investors.

    A real innovator, putting their asses on the line for the product is something I'd wholeheartedly support.

    One's who put everyone else's asses on the line (but protects their own) are the ones I won't support.
    Cheers,

    "I am a selfish, self-righteous tosser", a "fucking loser" and now an "absolute fucking idiot"

    Me - '03 RSV Mille, '89 FJ 1200 x 2, & '75 TL 125 & Schweizer S300 CBi Helicopter
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  11. #26
    apriliaforum expert craigo298er's Avatar
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    https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/new...sa-price-2019/

    Price slash


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  12. #27
    apriliaforum expert millietant's Avatar
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    Fantastic news for their 2018 customers who've just recently spent $30k on their new bikes !!!!!

    Now, when customers want to trade up, their bikes have just become comparatively "worthless" - this was exactly the point I was making about customers taking the financial hits for the marketing of under-developed technology !

    It sorta makes me unbelievably angry on the one hand, but hopefully it's a sign that newer/better technology is getting closer.
    Cheers,

    "I am a selfish, self-righteous tosser", a "fucking loser" and now an "absolute fucking idiot"

    Me - '03 RSV Mille, '89 FJ 1200 x 2, & '75 TL 125 & Schweizer S300 CBi Helicopter
    Wife - '01 FZ1 (Fazer 1000), '86 VF 750 Interceptor and '07 CRF 230F
    Kids - '03 Fazer 600, GY 125 and CRF 100 off roaders, '10 Reiju RS2 50 Matrix Pro

  13. #28
    apriliaforum expert craigo298er's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millietant View Post
    Fantastic news for their 2018 customers who've just recently spent $30k on their new bikes !!!!!

    Now, when customers want to trade up, their bikes have just become comparatively "worthless" - this was exactly the point I was making about customers taking the financial hits for the marketing of under-developed technology !

    It sorta makes me unbelievably angry on the one hand, but hopefully it's a sign that newer/better technology is getting closer.
    I wasn't aware people were buying Energica's as collector models. As soon as they drive it off the lot, it's comparatively worthless.

    So, what do you want the manufacturers to do, introduce models at a loss until magically they bring costs down? Sorry bud, ain't gonna happen. Early adopters are almost always going to pay more for an innovative product. That's the product lifecycle. If you don't like it, wait until the growth or even the maturity phase.

  14. #29
    apriliaforum expert millietant's Avatar
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    I never thought people would buy them as collector models, but if I buy a bike, I don't expect it to become a stone around my neck that I can't afford to trade up from almost as soon as I take it out of the shop.

    I expect the manufacturers to show a little more loyalty to their customers and to encourage us to continue buying from them, to keep them in business. I expect them to have development plans and financial stability in place to support their plans - this step smacks of desperation to get some sales and bring cash into the business quickly to minimise the manufacturers losses in the short term.

    If I bought a another Aprilia tomorrow and found that in 3 months they had chopped 30% off the retail price, why would I consider buying their next new model, knowing that they're likely to do the same again to me.

    If you can afford to be a repeat customer for a business that acts like this, then that's fine. But I doubt there are many people in the general motorcycling public who can afford to drop $30k on a bike which will be selling "new" in 3 months time at $20k, which means their "used" bikes will likely have suffered 50% depreciation in 3 months.

    I thought the whole point of business was to generate repeat sales as your product and market developed (which will help fund "ongoing" innovation). That doesn't seem to me to be what's happening in the EV market yet, either for cars, or bikes.
    Cheers,

    "I am a selfish, self-righteous tosser", a "fucking loser" and now an "absolute fucking idiot"

    Me - '03 RSV Mille, '89 FJ 1200 x 2, & '75 TL 125 & Schweizer S300 CBi Helicopter
    Wife - '01 FZ1 (Fazer 1000), '86 VF 750 Interceptor and '07 CRF 230F
    Kids - '03 Fazer 600, GY 125 and CRF 100 off roaders, '10 Reiju RS2 50 Matrix Pro

  15. #30
    apriliaforum expert craigo298er's Avatar
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    you still miss the point of what Energica is doing, and many other companies. They introduce a product at a premium to get their R&D money back, and to keep the lights on. Early adopting customers paying that premium pay that price so they have the product before anyone else. Budget minded customers or customers who don't wish to pay the premium don't buy it until the price drops to a level they are willing to pay.

    Here, read this: https://www.interaction-design.org/l...ption-patterns
    InnovatorsInnovators are the first customers to try a new product. They are, by nature, risk takers and are excited by the possibilities of new ideas and new ways of doing things. Products tend to be more expensive at their point of release (though some products do defy this trend) and as such innovators are generally wealthier than other types of adopters (though in some cases they may adopt products in a very narrow field and devote much of their financial resources to this adoption).


    Innovators will often have some connection to the scientific discipline in which a new product is generated from and will tend to socialize with other innovators in their chosen product categories.


    It’s also important to realize that innovators are comfortable with the risks that they take. They are aware that some products that they adopt will not deliver the benefits that are promised or will fail to win mass market appeal.
    So you're not an innovator. You may not even be an early adopter. You might be a laggard. Don't rag on those that buy before you because they choose to spend their money differently.

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