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Thread: Scarabeo 500ie clutch nut removal?

  1. #1
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    Scarabeo 500ie clutch nut removal?

    I've done my share of belts and rollers on my smaller Scarabeos and other scoots but this one is a real PITA. Every other scoot I could just put a couple of bolts into the clutch housing and break the nut free but this setup is different. Went out and bought an offset wrench set at HF to do it according to the manual and still can't break is loose. Any suggestions? I'll probably have to take it somewhere with a heavy duty impact wrench since mine won't budge it either. I'm wondering if it's a reverse thread. Manual doesn't mention that but the way the wrench is set up in the manual photo makes me think it might be.
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    Last edited by ride4321; 08-07-2018 at 08:21 PM.

  2. #2
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    It took an electric impact gun and heat but finally got it off. It is normal threads btw and not reverse.

  3. #3
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    Let us know how things go when putting it back on. You gonna use the electric impact wrench again I guess.

    Vernon

  4. #4
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    Since there was no way to use my torque wrench and hold the clutch at the same time I did use the impact wrench and some loctite. No way to know how much torque I applied but it seems to be staying together just fine...so far.

  5. #5
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    ride4321
    Getting ready to do the same thing , once i get my new rear tire on. Is that about the best way to take the nut off?
    I have an air impact in my shop. What about the front nut, any suggestions on that?
    I will be changing my belt and rollers.
    Thanks for any help.
    Ken
    Last edited by lumberjack; 11-29-2018 at 09:01 PM. Reason: forgot something

  6. #6
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    I thought the proper way was to remove the outer cover on the 500 like they show on the AF1 page displaying how to correctly remove the clutch using a breaker bar.

    If someone else did it wrong making it harder for you to remove why perpetuate that?

    Using the Piaggio tool which if you weld could be fabricated using hardware store materials for lower cost:





    Correct clutch stop tool:
    http://www.af1racing.com/store/Scrip...X+AP8140304%29

  7. #7
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    Rockrnv
    where did you see this on RF1 site?
    I have all the small bolts off of my cover. Do you have to remove the clutch nut to get the cover completely off?
    Did you try making a tool?
    thanks
    Ken

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by lumberjack View Post
    Rockrnv
    where did you see this on RF1 site?
    I have all the small bolts off of my cover. Do you have to remove the clutch nut to get the cover completely off?
    Did you try making a tool?
    thanks
    Ken
    Its on the AF1 site at the link captioned as "Correct clutch stop tool" that I included at the bottom of my post.

    How could you attache the tool that stops the clutch from spinning so you can easily remove the clutch nut if you had to remove the outer cover first? The outer bearing on the clutch shaft has too much stress on it to be supported by the CVT cover so on the 400 and 500 Piaggio puts the bearing in a heavy duty cast bracket that is separate from the CVT cover as shown in the picture or an inner shroud with the bracket cast into it. This has been the case going back to the original Scarabeo 500 GT. Only 300 cc and below have the bearing supported by the outer CVT cover which requires you to remove the nut holding the clutch in place before removing the CVT cover.

    Af1 claims the tool is good for the " '03-'06 Scarabeo 500, '06-'11 Scarabeo 500, '01-'04 Atlantic 500, Piaggio MP3 400, '07-'11 MP3 500, Piaggio X9 500, Piaggio BV 500."

    I did not feel there was a big enough performance gain to get the 500 (yes I have ridden the BV500, Scarabeo 500GT and Scarabeo 500ie back to back with the 250) so I stayed with the 250cc Sport City which has the same brakes and 465 lb weight capacity of the 500 yet is only 325 lbs and more nimble plus since I walk with a cane the 250 is much kinder on my bad knees at a long stop light. The folks I have assisted with their 500cc bikes all have the factory tool so I have not had the opportunity to fabricate one however its just a flat piece of steel bar stock that's 1/4" to 3/8" thick along with around 1.25" wide with a hollow steel pin which appears from the heat rings visible on the side shown in the picture was spun welded to the center of it and has a hole drilled in each end for the attachment bolts and spacers. The bolts and spacers are just loose hardware items.

    Some will just use a short length of wooden 1X3 wrapped in a towel placed in the spokes of the real wheel instead and of course only hand tools since you do not want to hammer the gear train with an impact wrench.

    This MP3 400 does not appear to have the access hole in the inner shroud to allow the tool to work so this gent is using the towel wrapped 1X3 method (albeit substituting a steel pipe/rod wrapped in a towel for the wood) which allows him to properly torque the clutch back on when he reinstalls it. If this feature preventing the tool from being inserted is used on newer 500ie bikes then a similar work around may be needed and AF1 may need to update their website where they list the bikes compatible with the tool:
    Last edited by Rockynv; 12-02-2018 at 03:54 PM.

  9. #9
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    Rockynv
    Thanks for the Video and write up, that was just what i needed. Had a 150 Vespa years back and bought this 09
    500ie in Destin Fl. about a month ago. A friend offered me a plane ride down there, as i was going down to check and make sure things were OK after the hurricane.
    Well I had to Uber to my Condo, and needed something to get around while i was there for the week!!!!!
    The rest is history as they say. Left it there and went back a couple of weeks ago to bring it home here in Louisiana.
    Have been riding motorcycles over 40yrs. These scooters are really fun.
    I will probably get my new tire in next week and put it on, and then tackle my rollers, shoes, air filter, and Belt.
    Thanks so much for your time and help. That 400 in the video looks just like my set up .
    Cheers
    Ken

  10. #10
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    If the newest have the inner cover/shroud without the access hole for the tool then yes you'll have to look at the alternate methods. I would consider making a hole for the tool in the top of the inner cover/shroud since the rest of it appears to be the same down to the bolt pattern that was used for the old style bearing support frame and afterwards just pop a plastic plug in the hole when done.

    Perhaps they were having issues with the belt overheating without the shroud to better control airflow.

    Yes both the 500 and the 250/300 can be a lot of fun. Both are much more capable then many give them credit for. Biggest thing is to follow the maintenance schedule and especially on the variator be 100% certain you have the splines lined up with the drive face before cranking the nut down tight. Checking and cleaning the CVT air filter 2 to 3 times more often as recommended in the book can help extend belt and drive face life especially in the South or where dusty conditions exist.
    Last edited by Rockynv; 12-02-2018 at 04:09 PM.

  11. #11
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    I tried using a block on the rear wheel to loosen the clutch nut like the vid shows and was afraid I was going to break the wheel but hopefully next time around it'll work that easily. That clutch tool from AF1 is way too expensive but making one would be easy enough. I'm wondering if you could just stick two bolts in those holes to hold it in place? That's how I've done my Beo 250 and my friends Vespa GT200. I'll look at it next time I'm in there to see if that'll work. Thanks for the vid Rocky.
    Lumberjack: I made a variator tool out of some flat steel and a couple of nuts and bolts that did the trick on the variator.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ride4321 View Post
    I tried using a block on the rear wheel to loosen the clutch nut like the vid shows and was afraid I was going to break the wheel but hopefully next time around it'll work that easily. That clutch tool from AF1 is way too expensive but making one would be easy enough. I'm wondering if you could just stick two bolts in those holes to hold it in place? That's how I've done my Beo 250 and my friends Vespa GT200. I'll look at it next time I'm in there to see if that'll work. Thanks for the vid Rocky.
    Lumberjack: I made a variator tool out of some flat steel and a couple of nuts and bolts that did the trick on the variator.
    If it was over tightened by the last person who worked on it or run through deep water the nut can be tough to break loose. The block method really is not my favorite though so if you have access to use the holes in the clutch bell then getting or making the tool is the best way to go.

  13. #13
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    thanks for the reply. Just got my new back tire on, and got all my other parts in this week. Belt , rollers , shoes , air filter. Will try and tackle this project soon. What model and year bike do you have?
    thanks

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by lumberjack View Post
    thanks for the reply. Just got my new back tire on, and got all my other parts in this week. Belt , rollers , shoes , air filter. Will try and tackle this project soon. What model and year bike do you have?
    thanks
    In post #8 I mentioned "I stayed with the 250cc Sport City which has the same brakes and 465 lb weight capacity of the 500 yet is only 325 lbs and more nimble plus since I walk with a cane the 250 is much kinder on my bad knees at a long stop light." but neglected to mention its a 2009.

    I have ridden the 500cc Atlantic, Scarabeo GT, Scarabeo ie and BV500 along with the BV350 and just find the 250 much better for me. The tunnel on the 500's and 350 along with the additional weight higher up becomes too hard to deal with on a long ride. The 500 also tends to be a lot more of a thumper compared to the 250 and I find the thumping of the 500cc engine a bit irritating after a long ride especially compared to riding from before sunrise to past midnight on the 250.

    Its all about the compromises that work best for you. The parts and tools for the 250 are more common and there are more aftermarket tools available for it that cost substantially less then the Piaggio tools.

    The 500's are still fine bikes and a good fit for many people. I get tempted by them but after I ride one it becomes obvious they're not a good fit for this 6 foot tall 250 lb size 48/50 disabled Sicilian.

    Keep pressing on and you'll get it all done. Just keep safety in mind and be sure that you keep track of the order of assembly and all the places where a dab of grease is appropriate and where its not. Don't skimp on getting the specified Motorcycle Grade Synthetic Lubricants either. Some may encourage you to do otherwise and at times get quite vehement about it however I had a very long conversation with Piaggio Service Reps at their main office on this topic and there are good reasons why they specify the Motorcycle Lubes on these scooters.

  15. #15
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    Mine is an '08. I have to agree with Rocky on the 250 thing though. I like this big scoot but my Beo 250 was perfect in just about every way. Very smooth engine with is not the case with the big thumper in the 500. This one smooths out pretty nicely around 40mph or so and I find I really like to be up in the 70-80mph range with it.

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