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Thread: Mapping

  1. #31
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    There are more subtle effects with a decat associated with the shifting of the pulse reflections - this because it's a significant change to the diameter profile along the length of each pipe, as compared with stock. And each decat pipe is different, so each one affects the engine differently. Luckily the effect is averaged out a bit as the pipes are different lengths anyway, stock or not. So it'll be a slight increase in torque almost everywhere, just from the reduced flow restriction, basically, with the other changes (pipe lengths, bends, diameters) canceling each other out to some extent.

    Cans will largely be much of a muchness (between quality brands at least), and their "slip-on" nature will mean they will be designed to mostly ape the stock exhaust, in terms of distances to cross-section changes and the section changes themselves (plus other resonances etc.). The largest benefit as a result is often an increase in midrange torque, which is where the leanness is most likely to appear. Our bikes get a lift down low (extra lean!) as well as up top, and it's possible the baffles are interacting with that from a fueling point of view (bearing in mind the fuel tables have the same values between 9600 and 10000 rpm).

    I've yet to try without the baffles since changing the fueling on mine, actually.
    2009 Shiver (White) | UK

  2. #32
    apriliaforum expert High Country's Avatar
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    I now use my baffles any time I plan to run long distance. Nice smooth revving, easier on the ears for all day rides, etc. On track, I leave them out so I can hear my bike over the loud inline 4s, plus I make better lap times being able to pull a little harder out of corners. Short trips around town I leave them out as well, because I just love to hear that uncorked twin.
    2009 Aprilia Dosoduro 750 (Adventurized: http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/a...893274&thumb=1)

  3. #33
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    Okay...let's throw a total curve in all this talk...

    I'm currently in-process of modding my 2016 DD to be a "Street ET" class drag bike! :-) Just because I just stopped racing Pro Mod/Pro Nitrous Motorcycle and am just "playing around" with something that I already have [neglected] in the garage [only has 845 miles on it!]. So far I've lowered it, gotten a de-cat pipe - but need 'something' for a muffler or can to at least give it some back pressure rather than being totally open, plus get the exhaust from directly under the seat where the de-cat pipe ends. Problem is with it lowered, whatever I stick on the end of the de-cat pipe needs to be 'narrow' or not large enough in diameter to contact the tire when it squats a bit more on launch. I could just 45* the de-cat pipe out the right side and put a small baffle/muffler on it. It doesn't need to be 'twinned' or split into two cause lets face it, it goes into 1 down below anyway. Any ideas on that avenue?

    Overall I have the front end strapped down [correctly for drag racing] and the rear lowered. This weekend installing an electric over air air-shifter, an air-hydraulic clutch w/flow control valve to release the clutch slowly after dropping off an electric button [psuedo slider clutch which skirts a rule for street class ;-)], a programmable shift light to help. I also previously purchased shortly after buying the bike in 2017, the "Aprilia Dorsoduro SMV 750 Tuning Exhaust fuel injection Optimiser" but not really sure that can help other than taking a bit of the richness out of the bike.

    So - I'm guessing from the looks of things searching thru the forums that there is no way to tune this bike via a laptop? Any way to log data on a pass so I can make changes to the mapping or ECU easily?

    Any help is greatly appreciated as I'm going to be looking to do some track testing on the 15th and actually stick it in its first 'race day' on the 21st if all goes well.
    2106 Dorsoduro ABS 750 / White
    ~ no mods yet...but they're comin...

  4. #34
    apriliaforum expert rule62's Avatar
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    RapidBike EVO allows you to tune with a laptop. RapidBike RACE adds ignition tables too.
    2016 Honda CBR 1000rr SP Repsol

    2014 Dorsoduro 750 ABS - sold

  5. #35
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    TuneECU for Android can be used, but it doesn't do the electronic ride by wire throttle limiter (nor does it increase demand figures above stock) which is essential if you want maximum performance. For those "inaccessible" items you could try a commercial tool and a hex editor instead, courtesy of this thread:
    https://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/...=1#post4384923

    A Rexxer map will "unlock" the ride-by-wire limits suitably for the stock cam / heads etc. and bump up the rev limit, then a Rapidbike will sort the fueling to a close enough degree, but if you're really going to beat on it and especially if you want to tweak the ignition, then I'd say a proper dyno tune is recommended - that way you can skip all the third party hardware and let the tuner put the features in you need (something like TuneECU would be perfectly adequate to tweak fueling / ignition from there). There's a few horsepower up top to be had depending on how your cams are degreed as well, I'd say.


    There should be plenty of room under the swinger to bring the exhaust out that way, others have done it, but you'll be looking at a bit of fab work as you'll have to rethink the collector location. E.g.:
    https://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/...-exhaust-on-DD
    2009 Shiver (White) | UK

  6. #36
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    Nice thread!

    I want to add the option we now have by GuzziDiag as well. IAW7SM Reader and Writer are available so you can upload your ECU .bin file from your bike. You can also edit in programs like TunerPro but I have not yet found XDF files for Shiver.
    I have done this procedure and tried with other 7SM XDF files (like California 1400) but it seems kinda off. Of course I have not uploaded anything on the bike, just out of curiosity, but with the correct XDF TunerPro gives you a lot of access to the map, lambda sensors, and pretty much everything.

    Also if anyone with rexxer or rapidbike evo map etc would be kind enough to upload their .bin files from GuzziDiag's IAW7SM reader we could possibly just right them on our ECU.

    Any comments on this?

  7. #37
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    That's great that the Guzzi suite now reads and writes the 5DM. I may try it, Beard's tools are very useful!

    I have no idea how to write an XDF so I just used a hex editor and the info in the pdf in the post I linked to above. I shall have to investigate TunerPro in case it makes life easier.

    Rapidbike doesn't touch the ECU's map, but there are pictures in other threads of the default adjustment that comes with the unit - it has percentage changes of fueling (pulse width) for rpm / throttle values. If effects these in real time by modifying the injector signals.
    A Rexxer dump would be ideal to compare, I haven't disabled the lambda yet as I don't actually know what I'm doing...


    We can already piece together an incomplete "community XDF" if someone were to spend the time.
    2009 Shiver (White) | UK

  8. #38
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    Some updates:

    I purchased TuneECU as well and expiramented a bit with it.
    It allows you to edit the curves for all 3 of the TRI-maps. Here you see my tweaked T map and stock S map. I smoothed the curves, but not have yet tested it.


  9. #39
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    Update:

    I have uploaded the map on bike. But first to explain all my changes.
    I smoothed out all the curves for cylinder 1 & 2 fuel map and for "Map T" (in the picture above).
    Also I made cylinder 1 & 2 maps look identical, I am not completely sure that's good tho.

    As for the results, I was shocked how good it turned out. Almost ALL the jerkiness and roughness is gone! The bike in T mode feels a bit slower, to say the truth. However, in S mode it still feels fast but without the majority of the roughness.
    Also I believe I'm running a bit rich.
    For now I will leave it as it is, but sometime I will start over and make it even better.
    I am able to upload my map for anyone who want to try it, but please note it's your own bike and responisibilty and I'm not an expert so I will not be responsible for any damage to your ECU or your bike.

  10. #40
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    I suspect you ought not have tweaked the fuel tables in that way, they are supposed to be different front to rear. For starters, the rear is not as well cooled so it should run slightly richer. In addition, each cylinder is effectively tuned differently as it lives in a different inertial and acoustic environment. This is because of the dynamic "wave motion" of gases in the airbox and exhaust, and in particular driven by the uneven firing of the engine. So each cylinder has its own slightly different torque curve (volumetric efficiency vs. rpm) and the fuel tables will have been developed to account for that.

    Have a look at the Rapidbike threads to get an idea of where the fueling is stock, e.g.
    https://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/...=1#post4363869


    I averaged T and S throttle maps and got more or less what I needed. I've since smoothed out the progression through the rpm range at small throttle openings as I was finding the bike would speed up significantly once it crept past certain engine speeds, even though I hadn't moved the throttle. T map is worse for this, S is much more progressive in the rpm direction, but far too abrupt in terms of demand increase with small throttle movements (you can see this in your pictures by looking at how the red / orange lines cross over the yellow ones on the T map)

    Notice TuneECU won't let you increase the demand above 970. That limitation aside, you can safely add about 10% to the full throttle cells and still be under the values in the internal torque limit map
    2009 Shiver (White) | UK

  11. #41
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    Do you mind sharing your map IndelibleInk?

  12. #42
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    The problem is that my map is specific to my bike. I know at this point we're just looking at the throttle demand map, and the RBW should be relatively mod-agnostic in this respect, but I'm finding that as the fuel map is being corrected, the throttle demand map is needing more changes.

    This is because the demand at certain engine speeds is set to account for poor fueling. When that fueling is corrected, the bike becomes excessively "keen" in that spot, and relatively "dead" in others. So the "smoothing" I did, in particular, might not work on any bike other than mine, or might even be detrimental and unpredictable in another machine.


    Then there's the matter of what format to share the map in. I would prefer to share the raw binary, as that is how I'm modifying the maps now. If anyone needs it in TuneECU's encrypted "hex" format, I need to put it in the bike, read it out with TuneECU, then put my map back in.

    I would need to start from scratch as well, since my maps have other modifications that may or may not be pointless, dangerous or damaging. I also generally have no real idea what I'm doing.


    I am very much behind the idea of a community map, though.
    2009 Shiver (White) | UK

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