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Thread: Fuel cut

  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikef4uk View Post
    Thats wrong, My two previous RSV4's were faultless on this aspect, no cut etc, my current R1M is also well behaved and easier to ride at slow speeds, with the R1 I can also when stationery hold any rpm I desire, something that is impossible to do with the Aprilia below 4500/5000rpm
    Agreed, having also owned an R1M, have never experienced this. I have to wonder if this is an EU designated ECU thing with apes.

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  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Tracey View Post
    Agreed, having also owned an R1M, have never experienced this. I have to wonder if this is an EU designated ECU thing with apes.

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    I'm in the US. Same behavior. I've never experienced this on any other bike either. I could ride at 2k rpm in 6th gear on my Ninja if I wanted to.

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  3. #228
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    Here are 2 videos of my MY 16 RSV4 RF with race ECU (stock was the same pretty much).

    The one where the RPM hits about 2500 is in sport mode, the other one, with 3500 RPM is race and track mode.

    Both with the very least throttle to make the engine respond.

    I would add that on GuzziDiag it shows the throttle position at a few percent, with the butterflies at 1% as per an earlier recording I linked to, so it's not cables etc... https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5ca272de...324_174333.mp4https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5ca2735d...324_174414.mp4

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  4. #229
    apriliaforum expert SquireSCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikef4uk View Post
    Thats wrong, My two previous RSV4's were faultless on this aspect, no cut etc, my current R1M is also well behaved and easier to ride at slow speeds, with the R1 I can also when stationery hold any rpm I desire, something that is impossible to do with the Aprilia below 4500/5000rpm
    There are other bikes that are plenty worse. My Panigale 959, which makes a lot less power, has 3 to 4 times the engine braking that the Tuono 1100 has, and as a result, the on/off throttle, or "fuel cut" as people are calling it, is WAY worse. I have had other bikes in the past, that are much worse than the Aprilia.

    The Aprilia for the most part is an easy fix. Ride around it.

  5. #230
    apriliaforum expert mikef4uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquireSCA View Post
    There are other bikes that are plenty worse. My Panigale 959, which makes a lot less power, has 3 to 4 times the engine braking that the Tuono 1100 has, and as a result, the on/off throttle, or "fuel cut" as people are calling it, is WAY worse. I have had other bikes in the past, that are much worse than the Aprilia.

    The Aprilia for the most part is an easy fix. Ride around it.
    It's not 'engine braking' in the true sense of the description, mine has 'no' engine braking as such with the Gabro ecu, it's more like a two stroke, but, on v small throttle openings my bike will continue to increase in speed, ANY, no matter how delicately I close the throttle to stop it accelerating and it's the same effect as switching the ignition off, it's the euro4 fuel cut.

    I suspect an algorithm within the ecu is incorrectly detecting what it thinks is time to cut the fuel, which (I think) could be caused by slight difference in throttle body calibration with regards to the throttle stop which the ecu closes the throttle onto on every ignition on........call it the reference point?

    one of these days when I have a spare morning I am gong to adjust the throttle stop slightly more closed, that way it will need to open it more (compared to where the stop is now) and should show in excess of 1% throttle opening when going slow which I think 'might' cure the fuel cut......

    It must be something like this as not every bike suffers with it

    PS:.............I can and do ride around it and have been doing for the last 3,1/2 years, but, it would be better without it, no, not better, it would be the 'perfect bike' without it
    Last edited by mikef4uk; 04-01-2019 at 04:31 PM.

  6. #231
    apriliaforum expert mikef4uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Tracey View Post
    Here are 2 videos of my MY 16 RSV4 RF with race ECU (stock was the same pretty much).

    The one where the RPM hits about 2500 is in sport mode, the other one, with 3500 RPM is race and track mode.

    Both with the very least throttle to make the engine respond.

    I would add that on GuzziDiag it shows the throttle position at a few percent, with the butterflies at 1% as per an earlier recording I linked to, so it's not cables etc... https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5ca272de...324_174333.mp4https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5ca2735d...324_174414.mp4

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    Yours is much better than mine!! If I do the same my rpm will climb to around 5000rpm, ANY attempt to slow it and its straight back to idle

  7. #232
    apriliaforum expert SquireSCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikef4uk View Post
    It's not 'engine braking' in the true sense of the description, mine has 'no' engine braking as such with the Gabro ecu, it's more like a two stroke, but, on v small throttle openings my bike will continue to increase in speed, ANY, no matter how delicately I close the throttle to stop it accelerating and it's the same effect as switching the ignition off, it's the euro4 fuel cut.

    I suspect an algorithm within the ecu is incorrectly detecting what it thinks is time to cut the fuel, which (I think) could be caused by slight difference in throttle body calibration with regards to the throttle stop which the ecu closes the throttle onto on every ignition on........call it the reference point?

    one of these days when I have a spare morning I am gong to adjust the throttle stop slightly more closed, that way it will need to open it more (compared to where the stop is now) and should show in excess of 1% throttle opening when going slow which I think 'might' cure the fuel cut......

    It must be something like this as not every bike suffers with it

    PS:.............I can and do ride around it and have been doing for the last 3,1/2 years, but, it would be better without it, no, not better, it would be the 'perfect bike' without it
    My point about engine braking is that when you don't have a lot of engine braking, the feeling of the fuel cut is a lot less. Being that my other bike has a ton of engine braking, the Tuono, while I notice it if I try to... it just doesn't bother me too much...

  8. #233
    apriliaforum Member Boatdriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stgatev View Post
    Can we do a quick poll. I am trying to establish a correlation between the fuel cut and plugging the intake ports from the charcoal canister.

    Can you please answer these two questions:

    - do you have a fuel cut problem?
    - did you plug the little intake ports that come from the charcoal canister?

    Attachment 377919
    Yes to fuel cut, yes to plugged. My bike did have the fuel cut issue before removal of canister and plugging

  9. #234
    apriliaforum prov-nov grizfan's Avatar
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    Yes to fuel cut
    Charcoal Canister still intact

    The OFT race map drastically minimized the abruptness...but unfortunately it is still there. I notice it while trying to observe 25mph speed limits thru rural towns.

  10. #235
    apriliaforum Member billywhizzz's Avatar
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    I am convinced the root of the issue is in the Euro 4 firmwear which I think is Autostar, Euro 3 bikes used Helios, I don't think anyone has the definition file to go down to this level. That said mine is now the best its been, it will hold a steady 2500 rpm but still has the on/off throttle. If I could access the code then I would change the threshold value for small throttle openings and reduce the gain, just as I did with my MV after ditching the Marelli ECU.

    I am now at point where I have reached the end of trying to sort this out, that said its still the best sports naked I have owned, by far, I just try to avoid traffic!
    V4R1100
    R1200RS
    TL125S (bored to 190)
    D14 (Bantam) with a TS185 Piston

  11. #236
    apriliaforum expert mikef4uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billywhizzz View Post
    I am convinced the root of the issue is in the Euro 4 firmwear which I think is Autostar, Euro 3 bikes used Helios, I don't think anyone has the definition file to go down to this level. That said mine is now the best its been, it will hold a steady 2500 rpm but still has the on/off throttle. If I could access the code then I would change the threshold value for small throttle openings and reduce the gain, just as I did with my MV after ditching the Marelli ECU.

    I am now at point where I have reached the end of trying to sort this out, that said its still the best sports naked I have owned, by far, I just try to avoid traffic!
    Shaun,
    So, If I was to close the two mechanical throttle body stops say 1/2 turn each, then on ignition on the ecu would close the butterflies further to reach the now adjusted stops which I think is the 'zero' reference, it would then need to (with regards to the throttle stop) open the butterflies further to obtain the correct idle which presumably would be a higher percentage and take it away from the threshold value for the fuel cut?

  12. #237
    apriliaforum Junkie stgatev's Avatar
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    I am interested in hearing about the results of this experiment. Please do share!
    2018 Tuono Factory

  13. #238
    apriliaforum Member billywhizzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikef4uk View Post
    Shaun,
    So, If I was to close the two mechanical throttle body stops say 1/2 turn each, then on ignition on the ecu would close the butterflies further to reach the now adjusted stops which I think is the 'zero' reference, it would then need to (with regards to the throttle stop) open the butterflies further to obtain the correct idle which presumably would be a higher percentage and take it away from the threshold value for the fuel cut?
    Hi Mike,

    Nice theory and possibly routed in the way direct Twist grip to Throttle body systems used to be fooled?

    I have thought about this before and it made my limited brain cells hurt, the idle control from what I have been told is the rear cylinder TB position is held on the stop (Master) by the torque motor, the front (Slave) modulates to control the idle so any stop position may make no difference other than upset the balance between front and rear, I really don't know on this one.

    My take on this is when you slowly open the throttle you can see the voltage rise from the TGPS for a fare few mV's before the TB's and TPS respond so maybe the primary cause is rooted in the TGPS to ECU output, now what I thought about is can you fool the ECU to keep it out of zero V's (degrees) from the TGPS, because this bike has an idle map and the TB position is calculated according to Torque (off idle) I gave up thinking about it as without knowing the ECU logic I am struggling.

    I think the TGPS to ECU needs to be fooled not the TPS to ECU? Doing anything trial and error with the throttle bodies is a pig of job but please feel free to try and prove me wrong lol.

    I wish I was a software engineer, sadly not.
    V4R1100
    R1200RS
    TL125S (bored to 190)
    D14 (Bantam) with a TS185 Piston

  14. #239
    apriliaforum prov-nov jerryx2000's Avatar
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    I have the EU4 exhaust & RACE ECU. I can confirm the fuel cut ist definitely still there. City ride & slow corner ride are a headache!

  15. #240
    apriliaforum expert pauldayona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerryx2000 View Post
    I have the EU4 exhaust & RACE ECU. I can confirm the fuel cut ist definitely still there. City ride & slow corner ride are a headache!
    Also in sport map?

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