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Thread: Error Code P0211 - front cylinder manifold pressure incorrect

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by amauri View Post
    Very difficult to see close-up details in your photo, both valves are badly worn from what I see.

    This is the reason I've been saying that it is best to replace the entire cyl head instead of trying to do the bare minimum repair job. A proper cylinder head re-build includes all new valves, new springs, new retainers and re-profiling the seats.

    If you install new valves on valve seats that are worn to match the old valves, you will have problems.
    If you replace only the valves that look bad, you will have problems.

    I realize things are different for those of you who do your own mechanical work, but when I work on a customer's bike I have to make sure it is 100% the first time.
    Every time I've tried to help a customer save $$ by not replacing all the valves, it didn't end well and the customer was not happy in the long run.
    Yes the best thing would probably be to replace the whole cyl head, but one new head costs about 1600$.. and the front cyl head had 0,02 clearence at two inlet valves also, so probably i would have checked that head to, and the risk is that the front looks like the rear and then i need to change both cylinderheads, gets very expensive.. but maybe thats what i have to do.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by plocky View Post
    There is your answer; it was a track bike!
    How many of those 18,000 km's were at track pace??
    If all or most of them, then that's a lot of engine wear.
    I would expect a full rebuild on an engine with 6,000 km's of track usage. Less if it was revved to the limiter constantly.

    The fact your clearance went to zero so quickly would indicate that the valve/s was/were worn badly before that 15,500 valve check & all he did was correct the clearance & sell the bike. The worn out valve just wears down even quicker.
    yes i get that trackuse wear alot, but is it that much? and the exhaust valves all looked good, so is it manufacturing material defects on the inlets? or do i just need to live with this when it comes to TI valves?

  3. #48
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Maybe some good quality low street miles heads would be a good option.

    This pro breakers and racer buys up old stock, he’s just bought in some 2018 RR zero mileage to break up into parts.

    Quality parts assured here,

    And no, I’m not sponsored by them!
    Previous bikes : AR50 - AR80 - CB250N - RD350LC - RGV250 - VT400 - TDR250 - VIRAGO 535 - RF600 - RF900 - CBR600 - GSXR750 - TL1000R - T160 TRIUMPH - R1 - PIAGGIO - R6 - RC30 - 916SPS - VFR800 - 675 DAYTONA - CBR600RR - TL1000R - YZF750 - RSV4 FACTORY.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsnet View Post
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    Maybe some good quality low street miles heads would be a good option.

    This pro breakers and racer buys up old stock, hes just bought in some 2018 RR zero mileage to break up into parts.

    Quality parts assured here,

    And no, Im not sponsored by them!
    Yes i looked at that one, i asked about the condition on the valves and seats, i got the answer "Recommend reconditioned".. and i have asked a few on ebay also, and most of them havent looked inside the head so its a risktaking to order without knowing the condition.

  5. #50
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    Sure, the answer comes from a breakers who cannot garantee the outcome, so by law’, it’s best to say get it checked / reconditioned’

    but We know how limited the reconditioning can be, and as said by Amouri, he changes all valves#springs#collets for his clients as he has a customer satisfaction to ensure,.

    If you have a blown motor, you need to get it fixed, if you can buy complete heads from a running bike then you will get going again. If not buy new, but then why not buy nw motor? It’s all about Budget

    for me, do the best you can,

    if if I was racing this bike, then second hand heads may help me out until the end of season. If it was my pride n’joy road bike that I wanted to keep until I die, maybe I buy New heads,

    choice is yours, don’t post on a forum for advice if you have loaded answers in advance and don’t like what’s given,
    i had to look back and noticed actually that you’re questioning is piggybacked onto another thread

    either way good luck with the repair
    Previous bikes : AR50 - AR80 - CB250N - RD350LC - RGV250 - VT400 - TDR250 - VIRAGO 535 - RF600 - RF900 - CBR600 - GSXR750 - TL1000R - T160 TRIUMPH - R1 - PIAGGIO - R6 - RC30 - 916SPS - VFR800 - 675 DAYTONA - CBR600RR - TL1000R - YZF750 - RSV4 FACTORY.

  6. #51
    apriliaforum newb Lohmeyer's Avatar
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    TI is as strong as steel, but light, but TI has one thing Steel doesn't have - abrasion resistance. So they are coated when using them as valves. Break through that coating, and the TI valves go fast. Sadly, because our beloved bikes have TI valves, we have to deal with this. Honestly, for a street bike, I would prefer to not have TI valves. For a race bike, I don't care about the wear issue as much because I do a tear down at the end of every season. But for a street bike, TI valves are a liability.

    As for the heads, there are many shops that can re-do heads for less than the cost of buying new. I would suggest, however, getting references to make sure the shop is good at what they do. If you plan to keep your bike for a long time (and ride it a lot), it might be a good idea to have a set of backup heads to send out and get rebuilt by one of these shops, so that next time the valves sink (wear into the valve seat), you can just swap heads and then redo the old heads at your leisure for next time.

    The reason all this is such a big deal is because with steel valves, you can sometimes just lap them in and re-assemble a head (or for a race engine, trying to finish the season, I have done that), or the valves are cheap enough that replacing them doesn't break the bank. Plus the wear on steel valves doesn't accelerate because of breaking through a coating. But with TI valves, once they start to wear, even if the wear is minor, they are likely to go fast, and you risk catastrophic failure (piston to valve contact, breaking a valve, etc.) which requires piston, cylinder, rod, and/or crank work. Very expensive, or you just part out the bike.

    Knowing what I know now on my Aprilia, even though the valve adjustment interval is 12K miles for street riding, 6K for racing, I plan to check the valves more often, probably every season which is likely to be 3-4K miles. I ride mostly on the track (not racing anymore). The reason isn't because I expect the valves to fail that quickly, but because when they start to fail, it can occur quickly, so seeing a trend in how the valve clearances change, I am more likely to identify a problem valve before it becomes a problem.

  7. #52
    apriliaforum newb Lohmeyer's Avatar
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    Finally got the bike back from the shop. I just didn't have time to fix this myself. Final result was they found a used, but good condition, complete head, cams, etc. and just replaced the whole thing. I was going to get the old head repaired, but the used head was cheaper, and in pretty good condition.

    The shop was saying that, for a bike used for racing, or track days, some people are recommending the heads should be completely redone every year. I mean, valve job, new springs, inspect, etc. In fact he suggested that AF1 has complete heads ready go all the time for exactly this purpose, and you send the old head in as a core. Obviously when racing, doing a complete valve job is always a good idea every season, or even half season to maximize performance. But the comment is being made is for reliability primarily. Is this really what some people are doing? For reliability? I hope that isn't required.

  8. #53
    just another Aprilia fanatic amauri's Avatar
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    what about the rear cyl head?

    if one is worn the other is also worn, maybe not as bat but getting there.

    BTW, I do have cyl heads in stock ready to go.
    Never accept mediocrity, always demand competence.

    Certified Aprilia Moto Service in Southern California
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  9. #54
    just another Aprilia fanatic amauri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohmeyer View Post
    The shop was saying that, for a bike used for racing, or track days, some people are recommending the heads should be completely redone every year. I mean, valve job, new springs, inspect, etc. In fact he suggested that AF1 has complete heads ready go all the time for exactly this purpose, and you send the old head in as a core. Obviously when racing, doing a complete valve job is always a good idea every season, or even half season to maximize performance. But the comment is being made is for reliability primarily. Is this really what some people are doing? For reliability? I hope that isn't required.
    Reconditioning a cyl head correctly requires not only a valve job, but installing all new valves, springs, retainers and seals. Plus replacing the valve guides if needed.

    For the R engines up to 2014, eight new IN valves cost $2300, EX valves $270, 16 valve springs and retainers $450. Add to that machine shop labor + guides and seats, you're better off buying brand new heads.

    The RR engines from 15 and up will cost even more because both valves are Ti.
    Last edited by amauri; 04-21-2019 at 11:31 AM. Reason: correction
    Never accept mediocrity, always demand competence.

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  10. #55
    apriliaforum expert yamaholic's Avatar
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    So I found this thread and it is not exactly what is happening with my bike but I AM getting "P0211 invalid signal".

    2016 TV4 with 10,500 miles never been to the track. K&N filter, Race ECU, Graves slip-on. (Installed with around 4000 miles on bike).

    I've never had any problems before I checked the valve clearances. All were within spec therefore, I did not remove the cams because no adjustments were required. I also did not remove the throttle bodies. So I put everything back together. Started the bike for the first time after the clearance checks and now I have this fault. I've cleared it multiple times and it comes back right away.

    When the URGENT SERVICE pops up on the dash, the RPMs rise by about 500. I took a video of the air pressures as mentioned earlier in this thread. You can hear the RPM rise at the end.

    From reading here it sounds like the MAP sensors need to be switched for troubleshooting or I didn't connect something. I don't know exactly where the MAP sensors are so a little confirmation would be nice. Looking at the manual they seem to be the sensors attached to the air box. One on the left side toward the front/middle and one attached to the rear right of the air box?

    Thanks for the help guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed / AF1 Racing View Post
    The greatest bikes ever made that nobody knows about....

  11. #56
    apriliaforum expert plocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamaholic View Post

    From reading here it sounds like the MAP sensors need to be switched for troubleshooting or I didn't connect something. I don't know exactly where the MAP sensors are so a little confirmation would be nice. Looking at the manual they seem to be the sensors attached to the air box. One on the left side toward the front/middle and one attached to the rear right of the air box?

    Thanks for the help guys.
    That's what I would do, & yes that's where they are located.

    Also check if the evap canister vacuum line has been blocked off properly if the canister has been removed.
    2015(16) RSV4 RR Ascari Black 201HP

  12. #57
    apriliaforum expert yamaholic's Avatar
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    Plocky, looking at the air pressure numbers on page 2 of this thread my “air pressure F” is considerably higher than my “air pressure R” I’m going to make sure the lines that go to the sensors didn’t get pinched or kinked too. Also going to make sure those lines are fully attached.

    Didn’t know the EVAP can had anything to do with it. I’ll be sure to check the capped off line. Thanks.

    Ive read a few more threads on this since I’ve posted. I’ve got a clear troubleshooting path ahead. I’ll be sure to update.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ed / AF1 Racing View Post
    The greatest bikes ever made that nobody knows about....

  13. #58
    apriliaforum expert plocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamaholic View Post

    Didn’t know the EVAP can had anything to do with it. I’ll be sure to check the capped off line. Thanks.

    e.
    yeah the evap vacuum lines connect to throttle bodies, good pics below on how to properly block them off.
    https://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/...nister+removal
    2015(16) RSV4 RR Ascari Black 201HP

  14. #59
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    An air line line on the front MAP sensor had come off. I put it on properly and everything is good to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ed / AF1 Racing View Post
    The greatest bikes ever made that nobody knows about....

  15. #60
    apriliaforum expert plocky's Avatar
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    ^^ great, glad it was something simple & next time you will know to pay attention to the hoses when reassembling.
    2015(16) RSV4 RR Ascari Black 201HP

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