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Thread: Calculated Race KMs and Guzzidiag

  1. #46
    apriliaforum expert plocky's Avatar
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    Ok, so for the RSV4 owners here this is what I'm learning right now.

    My manually logged race km I had calculated to be 2,880km, by recording my odometer readings before & after track days ,which includes warm up laps & slow down laps.
    I just read my ECU & the ECU track km reads as 2,035km, so I'm doing ~71% stressed race km per km at the track.
    My local track (Symmons Plains) is not what I'd call a fast track & I only visited Philip Island once & that is a FAST track.
    My total odometer reading is now 19,000km, so it looks like road riding is pretty easy on engine stress. At least the way I ride on the road, but I don't muck about, however you just cannot ride at the same pace as track on the road unless you are on a closed road circuit & even then, I doubt you would be able to stress the engine as much as at closed circuit race tracks.
    Anyway, now that I can verify this wit the ECU readout, I will check what my average road ride adds to the total.

    Given all the above info, Gabro has suggested, from his experience, that valve springs for this model bike should be changed soon, based on the track km readout of the ECU. Also suggested while the heads are off to change cam chains. So that is what I'm about to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabro View Post
    @plocky please replace valve springs in your 15 RSV4 soon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabro View Post
    2000 to 2500 race km is more or less the service limit for 2015-16 valve springs
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabro View Post
    my dealer can supply you a cheaper set of springs only, no collets. you may consider have 'em super-finished.
    as you'll have to drop heads, fits new chains as well.
    if you DIY it's only about 600euro in parts, but you can save your motor in granating some day
    Some more valuable info here from rsnet, hope he doesn't mind me quoting him, however this is good intel for '15+ RSV4 owners

    Quote Originally Posted by rsnet View Post
    *add another 150€ and replace the tensioners too, that’s what we do anyways.

    Gabro, Interesting you say 2000-2500 race KM’s is the limit, I’m working with Paul & hope to get some logs from both our bikes and others in the paddock.

    Interesting also that our ‘wet bike’ or B has 3800 km odometer (600 run in on the road 2018RR) is reading ~650km
    i need to compare this, but I’m not suspecting the calculations to be based on rpm but more the load or agressif throttle application,


    for this bike I’m seeing 17% track usage, and based on Plocky’s readings his is around 10% based on overall KM.

    I’m only interested from a track/race bike point of view, but with this kind of information we could help potential buyers of the brand to squash the myth that these bikes are not reliable, and use percentages to help avoid failures.
    Note: When the finalised version of the beta test is available it would be interesting to compare more peoples track v ODO km. Well I'm certainly interested, whether your a track day monster or a sedate road rider, all info is good.
    2015(16) RSV4 RR Ascari Black 201HP

  2. #47
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    Additional information

    420km over two days at Le Mans Bugatti circuit (moto gp)
    290 race km added’ , so 70% thereabouts

    Magny Cours F1 in ten days time, also a fast ~300kph circuit, will be interesting to see the results.
    Previous bikes : AR50 - AR80 - CB250N - RD350LC - RGV250 - VT400 - TDR250 - VIRAGO 535 - RF600 - RF900 - CBR600 - GSXR750 - TL1000R - T160 TRIUMPH - R1 - PIAGGIO - R6 - RC30 - 916SPS - VFR800 - 675 DAYTONA - CBR600RR - TL1000R - YZF750 - RSV4 FACTORY.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by plocky View Post
    hey all, there is a new version of GuzziDiag being beta tested right now that reads & can reset race km log in ECU.
    Anyone here that has one with the warning light that can test for the reset?

    edit; Oh & don't forget to donate, at least something to appreciate the effort put in by these guys.
    I'm doing some of the beta testing, but I still just donated another 20 euro via the Donate button in the software, as I really appreciate what they do for us & reality says I would have paid at least that to get a tech to read my ECU track km log.
    Could you please refer to beta download link?

    Thanks

  4. #49
    apriliaforum expert plocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgunergun View Post
    Could you please refer to beta download link?

    Thanks
    You best PM Paul Daytona for the latest link & instructions on what feedback he is looking for.
    2015(16) RSV4 RR Ascari Black 201HP

  5. #50
    apriliaforum expert pauldayona's Avatar
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    I did send him the info.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by pauldayona View Post
    I did send him the info.
    cheers mate ��

  7. #52
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    Again a little update from Magny Cours, so this circuit is around 4km long, with a straight we can see up to 300kph in WSBK and so.

    i see 280. Today I was geared at 16/44, where at the end of the straight in 6th gear was at 13k revs

    we recorded 175 km ridden, and 81 accumulated ‘race km’ coefficient ~ 41% (compared to Le Mans @ 70% co eff~)

    we have Aprilia Europe here with their demo bikes, plus a press bike with a full ‘big bore’ Akra developing 230cv (won’t lets me test it)

    I pressed their technical guy for more information on the ‘engine stress calculator’

    So the ECU will show the service light at 5500km stress engine, giving you 500 stress KM to get the work done.

    He informed me that this calculus is based on many parameters, throttle operation, openings and how fast you open! Revs, and constant revs (ie long straight at 280kph @ 13kph for many seconds) which gear ⚙️ etc etc also the final drive gearing has an influence.

    so today, this 2018 RR, on 16/44 for the main part has now a total of 4500 odometer KM and 1050 ‘Race’ km.

    I can say for today, the ratio is 1/5 roughly.

    however, the Noale Tech guy has seen bikes with 1000km odometer and already flagging the 5500km ‘race’ warning.

    The race race warning is the red triangle, which will flash twice after turn key, and again every 120 seconds. I’m told.

    I will try and match today’s Km will the same gearing and tyre, and compare the ‘race’ accumulation tomorrow.

    I may try another gearing of 16/42 over the weekend for comparison and also for drive reasons, as we are missing sometimes grip in certain parts, but this may be due to squat in the rear.

    The 42 will give 2/3 mm wheelbase and less fulcrum effect from the swinging arm (another subject)

    Gabro & Paul-D, the saved files are available from the Guzzi#diag beta if you want.

    @Gabro, I know for your Gabro~monster#tuono beast, your saying 2500km race, also you referred to Plocky’s 2500km on a 19k km engine ‘ change soon your valve springs’ what are your thoughts?

    #What readings should we be place or base our maintenance schedule, Your ‘bad boy’ is a home brew (and very effective too), but what do you see from a standard factory prepared machine, PADS and Paul’s Guzzi Diagnostic and these feedbacks.

    Today was an Aprilia ‘be a racer day’.. 130 bikes on track, few crashes, did not see a mechanical problem (could have been)

    again pressed the the tech guy, from statistics in France, bikes gone through dealers are less or equal to 3% (valve spring failure)

    its true, a second hand bike (older) passed through hands will not show in this statistic * but generally the valve spring problem is quite low.

    I just want to help or quantify the type of usage.

    200bhp bikes have been around for years, WSB, BSB etc, and the maintenance required is proportionate, here we have a homologated (race bike from years gone) road bike that depending on its usage will need a certain level of maintaining pro rata.

    anyway, updates to follow.
    Previous bikes : AR50 - AR80 - CB250N - RD350LC - RGV250 - VT400 - TDR250 - VIRAGO 535 - RF600 - RF900 - CBR600 - GSXR750 - TL1000R - T160 TRIUMPH - R1 - PIAGGIO - R6 - RC30 - 916SPS - VFR800 - 675 DAYTONA - CBR600RR - TL1000R - YZF750 - RSV4 FACTORY.

  8. #53
    apriliaforum expert Gabro's Avatar
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    2017+ bikes can follow the 6000 "race km's" maintenace schedule with no problem at all, they are bullet-proof

    2015-2016 has a 5000km based schedule, plus the valve spring problem that can cause the engine total loss...

    Aprilia can cover any percetange of failures during warranty, but once out of warranty (an all 15-16 bikes are now out) this is OUR problem. That's why i'll continue to replace valve springs at half life, 2500 race km's circa.

    BTW at last valve spring replacement i've been very lucky, as I've found a pitted exhaust valve spring. She was really near to fail (you can see that little pimple on the 3rd coil?!)

    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #54
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    Thanks Gabro, and nice luck finding that spring before failure*
    Previous bikes : AR50 - AR80 - CB250N - RD350LC - RGV250 - VT400 - TDR250 - VIRAGO 535 - RF600 - RF900 - CBR600 - GSXR750 - TL1000R - T160 TRIUMPH - R1 - PIAGGIO - R6 - RC30 - 916SPS - VFR800 - 675 DAYTONA - CBR600RR - TL1000R - YZF750 - RSV4 FACTORY.

  10. #55
    apriliaforum expert plocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsnet View Post
    Again a little update from Magny Cours, .........................................
    ...............................
    anyway, updates to follow.
    Excellent observations there, thanks for sharing.
    Just for interest I checked mine again after I did my first road ride of spring. It was a little damp in places & I only got to give it a clear out once or twice in first & second gear.
    Track miles recorded/added to partial & total, in 160km of road riding = zero.

    Was going to the track tomorrow & check what the track km's recorded would be, however the weather is stuffed for tomorrow so I won't waste my time & money on that.
    Next track day 20th Oct.
    2015(16) RSV4 RR Ascari Black 201HP

  11. #56
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    Small update, again from Magny Cours, same tyre sc3 200/60. Same gearing 16/44

    176km covered and 65 additional ‘Race km’
    giving a coefficient of 0.36%

    almost the same weather, temps around 24* degrés Celsius.

    Maybe the style of pilotage was different today, trying different lines, also a different group to ride within? ! So not as constant, but otherwise I can’t explain the 20% differences in engine stress.

    Light rain forecast for Saturday, but the plan is to stay the same configuration. Sunday is to be back to the same weather, maybe we can try the 42 rear sprocket to see the impact, maybe we can pull top speed but not at 13k rpm
    Previous bikes : AR50 - AR80 - CB250N - RD350LC - RGV250 - VT400 - TDR250 - VIRAGO 535 - RF600 - RF900 - CBR600 - GSXR750 - TL1000R - T160 TRIUMPH - R1 - PIAGGIO - R6 - RC30 - 916SPS - VFR800 - 675 DAYTONA - CBR600RR - TL1000R - YZF750 - RSV4 FACTORY.

  12. #57
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    Another 263 km covered at Magny Cours this weekend, with additional stress figure of 80 Race km.

    This ‘18 RR has a total odometer 4864 KM with 1166 ‘race stress’ total. ~24%

    Comparing two figures here, from 175km / 81 R*KM from Le Mans and 263Km / 80 R*KM Magny Cours.

    whilst they both have a similar top speed figure 280/300 Magny Cours has more flowing 3rd 4th gear turns and progressive throttle application compared to Le Mans being a more cut and fire out riding style.

    I think the snap open time of the throttle has a big impact on the stress calculator, high speeds and high revs are factors but I think it’s how you get there.

    NB* No race starts performed over these measurements.
    Previous bikes : AR50 - AR80 - CB250N - RD350LC - RGV250 - VT400 - TDR250 - VIRAGO 535 - RF600 - RF900 - CBR600 - GSXR750 - TL1000R - T160 TRIUMPH - R1 - PIAGGIO - R6 - RC30 - 916SPS - VFR800 - 675 DAYTONA - CBR600RR - TL1000R - YZF750 - RSV4 FACTORY.

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