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Thread: GT300 & 13 wheels

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    apriliaforum expert Ricardo J's Avatar
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    GT300 & 13 wheels

    Hello, does anyone have experience or feedback for running 13 wheels on a GT300, especially with 70 series rubber?

    I recently had a short test ride on Vespa Motorsports / ScooterWest's "Vespa Everywhere" GT300 project bike in San Diego and enjoyed it a lot! This machine runs 13 Yourban (?) wheels from a Piaggio MP3 shod with 130/70-17 tires at both ends. It's noticeably calmer and more bump compliant than a stocker and didn't exhibit any bad behavior at all, but there's only so much you can learn in a 5 mile test. I'd sure like to hear more from anyone with a similar setup!

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    apriliaforum expert Ricardo J's Avatar
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    Photo

    Here's a photo of their "Vespa Everywhere" shop project bike with the bigger hoops. It's pretty sweet!
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    apriliaforum expert Ricardo J's Avatar
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    Thanks! Do you have a 300 with 13”ers?

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    apriliaforum expert Ricardo J's Avatar
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    Thanks...the guys in San Diego already have their "Vespa Everywhere" project bike and a couple customer 300s rolling on the 13s, but only the project bike is on the taller 70 series tires. That's the concept I like best! Nobody at this point is reporting any stability or handling problems, but I'm digging a little bit more to see if any negative comments show up before committing myself. As far as installation goes, the techs said they would look into how (or if?) the ABS can be reprogrammed for these bigger tires (their project rig is a '14 without ABS). I think that's the only possible hitch, the ABS must function perfectly or it's a no-go.

    It seems the '17 GTV300 might be the way to go: it comes more touring-ready with racks, and I like its retro look with fender headlight and naked chrome handlebar. The glossy Portofino Green is super classy, perhaps I could color match the 13” wheels as well! A Sei Giorni solo saddle would be sweet, too.
    Last edited by Ricardo J; 01-08-2018 at 11:04 PM.

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    apriliaforum expert Ricardo J's Avatar
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    I appreciate your thoughtful and scientific insights on this project! The Vespa Everywhere bike runs 130/70-13 both front and rear, compared to the original 120/70-12 front and 130/70-12 rear. I suspect those size-matched 13s would slacken the geometry by a smidgeon over stock. Trail would increase from the combined slacker geometry and a taller tire raising the axle height. Grip should improve with the larger contact patch. Most likely I'll run Pirelli Diablos on this bike, too.

    Looking forward to another chat with 'em tomorrow, so we can decide where to go with this. Time to push it out of the experimental and into reality! Or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo J View Post
    Hello, does anyone have experience or feedback for running 13 wheels on a GT300, especially with 70 series rubber?

    I recently had a short test ride on Vespa Motorsports / ScooterWest's "Vespa Everywhere" GT300 project bike in San Diego and enjoyed it a lot! This machine runs 13 Yourban (?) wheels from a Piaggio MP3 shod with 130/70-17 tires at both ends. It's noticeably calmer and more bump compliant than a stocker and didn't exhibit any bad behavior at all, but there's only so much you can learn in a 5 mile test. I'd sure like to hear more from anyone with a similar setup!
    No experience with 70 series tires on a 13", but this is a good spot to share some info about the Gilera Runner wheels that are 13" x 3.5" (the Yourban & factory GTS wheels are 3"). https://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/P...gaAu-GEALw_wcB

    The only thing that I would be concerned with is the rear inner fender rubbing. I have read that some of the GTSs running 140/70-12 rear tires had slight rubbing issues, and a 130/70-13 would be 1/2" taller. You may end up with an accurate speedometer though...

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    apriliaforum expert Ricardo J's Avatar
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    Thanks gents, this is excellent info and so timely!

    Gilera 13x3.5 six-spokers look fantastic, very modern and racy. I'll ask the shop about 'em in our next conversation.

    They are not seeing any tire rubbing issues with the 130/70-13 tires currently on "Vespa Everywhere", but I should ask exactly how much clearance still exists because the Pirelli Diablos I'd run would likely have a different section height. Also curious if they'll suggest identical 130/70 front and rear like their project bike, or to mount a 120/70 front instead. The science project aspect of it all is enjoyable! And when you get to that point where the thing becomes visible in your mind...look out! Loosely speaking, it will be a Portofino Green '17 GTV with black solo gel saddle (like Sei Giorni), color-matched 13” wheels, Malossi shocks, and a silver Akrapovic muffler. Sort of a mix of retro and modern. We'll see if it can happen...

    By the way, super-tech Robot says I should expect the GTV's old school mechanical (cable-driven from front wheel) speedo to indicate ~10% low from actual.

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    apriliaforum expert Ricardo J's Avatar
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    Pretty big .pdf from Pirelli here, showing all of their 2017 moto and scooter tires, fitments, and sizing data. Scroll all the way to the end to find that data table: https://www.pirelli.com/asset/index.php?idelement=89467

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnnDee4444 View Post
    The only thing that I would be concerned with is the rear inner fender rubbing. I have read that some of the GTSs running 140/70-12 rear tires had slight rubbing issues, and a 130/70-13 would be 1/2" taller. You may end up with an accurate speedometer though...
    um where would you hear that? from the sillys on modern vespa? I had the 13" scooter tire nxt to the 12" 140/70 michelin, unmounted... the 13" tire had no height advantage but smaller sidewall. Id imagine the OD of both tires, when mounted are nearly identical.

    The front needs a better shock as does the rear. Both stock units are horrid if you arent 100lbs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turboblew View Post
    um where would you hear that? from the sillys on modern vespa? I had the 13" scooter tire nxt to the 12" 140/70 michelin, unmounted... the 13" tire had no height advantage but smaller sidewall. Id imagine the OD of both tires, when mounted are nearly identical.
    Yeah, that is where I read it. I haven't tried it myself though...

    As far as the overall diameter is concerned, the tires should be close to their calculated size (this could vary depending on brand, wheel width):
    130/70-12 = 19.2"
    140/70-12 = 19.7"
    130/60-13 = 19.1"
    140/60-13 = 16.6"
    130/70-13 = 20.2"
    140/70-13 = 20.7"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo J View Post
    Thanks gents, this is excellent info and so timely!

    Gilera 13x3.5 six-spokers look fantastic, very modern and racy. I'll ask the shop about 'em in our next conversation.

    They are not seeing any tire rubbing issues with the 130/70-13 tires currently on "Vespa Everywhere", but I should ask exactly how much clearance still exists because the Pirelli Diablos I'd run would likely have a different section height. Also curious if they'll suggest identical 130/70 front and rear like their project bike, or to mount a 120/70 front instead. The science project aspect of it all is enjoyable! And when you get to that point where the thing becomes visible in your mind...look out! Loosely speaking, it will be a Portofino Green '17 GTV with black solo gel saddle (like Sei Giorni), color-matched 13 wheels, Malossi shocks, and a silver Akrapovic muffler. Sort of a mix of retro and modern. We'll see if it can happen...

    By the way, super-tech Robot says I should expect the GTV's old school mechanical (cable-driven from front wheel) speedo to indicate ~10% low from actual.
    I recently bought a Gilera Runner wheel used, and it came with a 140/60-13 Perelli Diablo. I haven't had a chance to try it on the rear, but on the front it is large... too large for my preferences. The tire does fit without rubbing though. I am coming from a 130/70-12, and will probably run a 130/60-13 in the front and rear.

    Keep in mind that the standard front tire is a 120/70-12 (1083.5 revs/mile), and to correct the ~10% inaccuracy would mean 985 rev/mile (this is somewhere between a 130/70-13 & 140/70-13).

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    Another potential issue I just thought of is making sure there is enough clearance when the bike is on the center-stand. This could be solved easily with a side-stand though...

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    Here is a 140/60-13 on the front, with a 130/70-12 next to it for size comparison.
    Name:  MVIMG_20180111_184309.jpg
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    Another angle
    Name:  MVIMG_20180111_184205.jpg
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