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Thread: 2014 DD ABS front suspension setup?

  1. #1
    apriliaforum expert rule62's Avatar
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    2014 DD ABS front suspension setup?

    2014 DD ABS front suspension setup? Gonna ask it here just because I've tried a bunch of things and still get a bit of front end wallow during high speed sweepers, like highway interchanges. I've tried the settings in the manual as well as those listed here https://www.sportrider.com/tech/suggested-sport-bike-motorcycle-suspension-settings I think it might just need some heavier fork oil. Anyone care to share if they also experience some wallowing, and what you've done to cure it?

    I've gone from 3
    0mm sag to 1/3 of the total suspension travel and still can't dial it in just right. Ridden about 7000 miles now. The riding position and bike geometry are much different than my Monster or 748. Is the wallow just something I should get used to? Pushing 100+ mph, pitched over in a long sweeping turn, is probably something I shouldn't be doing anyway, but it sure is fun every once in a while. I figured a bit of flex would be built into a sumo-style bike, but it's a bit unnerving at times.

    Was thinking about making 3 lines show above the top yoke. Lowering the front end. I know this typically sharpens steering and can lead to head-shake. This wallowing I'm trying to describe is different though. Doesn't feel the same as head-shake. It kind of feels like the front is just getting light. Getting my body way up over the tank cures it a bit. Was thinking that raising the forks to 3 lines might get more weight transfer over the front end. I've already got a damper installed, but would rather resolve the issue than mask it. Unless, of course, I simply have to get used to the sumo-style.

    I've done a bunch of suspension setup on my previous bikes and have typically had good results. This one has me still guessing.
    Last edited by rule62; 12-20-2017 at 12:32 AM.
    2014 DD 750 ABS - Spark exhaust, Arrow decat, headers (all ceramic coated), BMC filter, BikeMaster DLFP16-BS LiFePO battery, NGK iridium plugs, GPR steering damper, DD 1200 fully adjustable rear shock w/spring swap, 2016 Tuono Factory wheels, 15/44 520 conversion (PBR/Superlite/DID), Strada-7 fork preload adjusters, Samco 2-piece hose kit w/clamps, Engine Ice, Renazco Racing seat, EvoTech tidy tail, Aprilia grab handles, shorty levers, crank-case breather mod, evap-can delete... and a Rapid Bike EVO.

  2. #2
    apriliaforum expert brandonmccann's Avatar
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    My shiver is at 3 rings in the front(lowered in the back as well)

    At about 120 my front end starts to feel light. I was thinking a damper was what I needed to resolve this.

    However, maybe that isn't where I should be looking either?

    Would the andreani kit rectify this?

    As a side note, my "lightness" is without being tucked in. Though speeds of that nature aren't very often so it does require some more experimentation for my scenario.

    Had a few speed wobbles(at 90 or so, but that was a really bad road) a few years ago, so I'm thinking it's just in my head but that thought and the light feeling has been what's holding me back from going much faster.

    Also lack of good/safe roads for that lol. One day I'm sure I'll top her out though.

    Bike is also getting close to fork oil time. Was gonna have the mechanic swap in some andreani whenever I did that. Though will just do oil if it's a rear shock that will fix this.
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  3. #3
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    The Dorso 750 has a fair whack of travel, well over 160 mm at the front. I suppose that's not unusual, but it still affects the sag figure you need to aim for. The riding position and engine configuration mean that there is little weight over the front wheel, leading to a vagueness there.

    Preload should be seen only as a ride-height and stroke-position adjustment, it does not and cannot make the springs any stiffer - if you can't get where you need to be with preload adjustments alone, you might need to try different springs. This can be quantified by measuring static and rider sag figures - a large difference means springs are too soft, a small difference means too stiff - plenty of advice out there on this in terms of what numbers are "acceptable" for different usages.

    The spring stiffness dictates how much travel you use in corners, so for example running a soft spring with lots of preload only helps keep you in the top of the stroke in a straight line, it'll still sag right down in corners, eating your stroke room and ground clearance. What's more, you'll have no top-out provision, so it'll feel harsh over bumps. Running springs that are too stiff for your usage limits how much stroke you use and doesn't allow the damping to do its job - it'll skip and sproing over every bump.

    Get the springs you need, then set preload to give you the geometry you need. But as a quick-ish test, you can try dropping the clamps a bit and see how it feels.


    My Shiver didn't so much wallow as wander in corners due to steering torque effects from the geometry (forks set flush) and wayward / non-existent damping effectively altering the geometry mid-corner. Dropping the clamps to the recommended two lines and controlling the exuberant rebound with thicker oil helped a lot in sweepers at speeds slightly lower than what you mention. The front end felt more planted just after the geometry change, and again with the extra damping later on. Luckily the springs are about right for me, especially given the lack of adjustment.


    Just pumping the suspension will tell you in broad strokes if the damping is out: a hard shove forwards and down on the bars with the brake on should result in one bounce up only, coming down again to a stop smoothly at the sag position. If you need more rebound damping, typically it will overshoot downwards and come back up a second time (or more). If it stops on the way up the first time, that would probably indicate too much rebound damping. In systems / control parlance, you're looking for the suspension to be just on the under-damped side of "critically-damped" - something like the orange line in this picture.

    A quick video on rebound damping:



    Here Ari tests both ends at once, but that's harder to do and only really necessary to check the balance of rebound speed front and rear.
    You can also try riding with the damping adjuster set to either extreme to get a feel for what it does to the ride and perhaps inform you where you are / need to be qualitatively. You ideally will have sorted your springs and preload first, though, as for instance too little rebound damping ends up making bumps feel harsh, which can be hard to separate from other causes of harshness.
    2009 Shiver (White) | UK

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    apriliaforum Member Ametts21's Avatar
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    I have noticed my dorsoduro kind of does the same thing. Heavier fork oil helped with a little nose dive but not much stability. I also have mine setup according to the sport rider settings. Bike does great in the tight stuff but the high speed sweepers under 90 is fun and stable enough but past that it's just too tall of a bike and too much suspension travel to be stable and not wallowing in my opinion. This bike shines on the tight stuff...would be better if it weighed 100 lbs less though.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    apriliaforum prov-nov Gman69's Avatar
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    Just buy hyperpro springs and use 15 weight oil as per instructions you won’t look back. I stuggled with mine the same as you but I bit the bullet and Brought the kit now so easy to ride puts the smile back on my face.
    Smv750 Dorsoduro
    Akro's decat, polished stainless bolts, dna filter, rim tape, no passenger foot pegs, gel carbon seat, gold alloy brake covers, gold pick up spools, gold oil filler, air temp hack. Red powder coated rear sub frame.

    Past bikes 2005 R1 heavily modded, Husaberg fs650 motard heavily modded, Mx race bikes and road bikes 1999 yz250, zx9r 1996, gsxr750 1991,gsxr750 1990, 1993 wr500, yz125 1992, yz1991 , kx125 1990, kdv200 1990, cr250 1986, cbx250 1985, cr125 1985, rm125 1983, yz100j 1980, kx80f2 1984, yz80j 1980, first bike mighty xr75 very tidy

  6. #6
    apriliaforum expert rule62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman69 View Post
    Just buy hyperpro springs and use 15 weight oil as per instructions you won’t look back. I stuggled with mine the same as you but I bit the bullet and Brought the kit now so easy to ride puts the smile back on my face.
    Should have mentioned that my bike came with Sachs. I had a great line on a hyperpro front spring kit at one time, but then found out the kit is for Showa only.

    The more I research, the more I believe a heavier fork oil may be in line for me soon.

    BTW: I'm about 180 pounds in my street clothes. Add a few for gear. If that helps anyone with similar wallow and weight.
    2014 DD 750 ABS - Spark exhaust, Arrow decat, headers (all ceramic coated), BMC filter, BikeMaster DLFP16-BS LiFePO battery, NGK iridium plugs, GPR steering damper, DD 1200 fully adjustable rear shock w/spring swap, 2016 Tuono Factory wheels, 15/44 520 conversion (PBR/Superlite/DID), Strada-7 fork preload adjusters, Samco 2-piece hose kit w/clamps, Engine Ice, Renazco Racing seat, EvoTech tidy tail, Aprilia grab handles, shorty levers, crank-case breather mod, evap-can delete... and a Rapid Bike EVO.

  7. #7
    apriliaforum expert jay dub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rule62 View Post
    Pushing 100+ mph, pitched over in a long sweeping turn, is probably something I shouldn't be doing anyway, but it sure is fun every once in a while.
    Doesn't your peg scrape?

    Have you tried to tighten up the shock; also dropping the triples a ring or two?
    acab

  8. #8
    apriliaforum Member Ametts21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay dub View Post
    Doesn't your peg scrape?

    Have you tried to tighten up the shock; also dropping the triples a ring or two?
    Gotta lean way off the dorso to not scrape it will scrape fairly easy. She will zip through it.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Ametts21; 12-22-2017 at 07:49 AM.

  9. #9
    apriliaforum expert rule62's Avatar
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    As for the types of corners I get this "wallow" at, and scraping pegs... The sweepers I'm speaking of are much less tight than that. They're very broad interchanges between highways. I'm not leaned over far enough to scrape. My body position is pretty good. Been working on getting way over the tank on this bike to get the front end to feel less vague. Think I may raise the forks in the tripples, to show another line.

    Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
    2014 DD 750 ABS - Spark exhaust, Arrow decat, headers (all ceramic coated), BMC filter, BikeMaster DLFP16-BS LiFePO battery, NGK iridium plugs, GPR steering damper, DD 1200 fully adjustable rear shock w/spring swap, 2016 Tuono Factory wheels, 15/44 520 conversion (PBR/Superlite/DID), Strada-7 fork preload adjusters, Samco 2-piece hose kit w/clamps, Engine Ice, Renazco Racing seat, EvoTech tidy tail, Aprilia grab handles, shorty levers, crank-case breather mod, evap-can delete... and a Rapid Bike EVO.

  10. #10
    apriliaforum Member Ametts21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rule62 View Post
    As for the types of corners I get this "wallow" at, and scraping pegs... The sweepers I'm speaking of are much less tight than that. They're very broad interchanges between highways. I'm not leaned over far enough to scrape. My body position is pretty good. Been working on getting way over the tank on this bike to get the front end to feel less vague. Think I may raise the forks in the tripples, to show another line.

    Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk
    I believe I am at the 3rd line on mine. I have hit some fast sweepers but nothing over 95 I'd say but the bike does feel slightly wallowey in them from what I can recall. What tires are you running? Could have some to do with vague front end and wallowing if the tire is flexing or not correct pressures.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

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    apriliaforum expert rule62's Avatar
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    I put a new set of Bridgestone S21r's on about 300 miles ago. I like them a lot better than the stock Dunlops. I run them at the pressures indicated on the plate. 39r/35f. Thinking of going 36r/34f like I have on all of my previous bikes.
    2014 DD 750 ABS - Spark exhaust, Arrow decat, headers (all ceramic coated), BMC filter, BikeMaster DLFP16-BS LiFePO battery, NGK iridium plugs, GPR steering damper, DD 1200 fully adjustable rear shock w/spring swap, 2016 Tuono Factory wheels, 15/44 520 conversion (PBR/Superlite/DID), Strada-7 fork preload adjusters, Samco 2-piece hose kit w/clamps, Engine Ice, Renazco Racing seat, EvoTech tidy tail, Aprilia grab handles, shorty levers, crank-case breather mod, evap-can delete... and a Rapid Bike EVO.

  12. #12
    apriliaforum Member Ametts21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rule62 View Post
    I put a new set of Bridgestone S21r's on about 300 miles ago. I like them a lot better than the stock Dunlops. I run them at the pressures indicated on the plate. 39r/35f. Thinking of going 36r/34f like I have on all of my previous bikes.
    Those s21 are good tires. Buddy runs them but says they get a little squirly at end of life so FYI. I'm on my second set of m7rr and I love them. I run around 32r/30f on mine. Recommended pressures are so hard to go by once you start using different tires and different riding conditions, etc. I think coming down on pressure might help and you certainly get more heat in them, those s21 I'm sure have a plenty stiff carcass so they don't need the higher pressures to keep them from moving.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

  13. #13
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    I have had wallows at lower speeds (30-55mph). I had my Sag set up a set of Michelin Power RS put on. They both helped, but it still wallows when pushed hard. After market suspension is something I am looking into

  14. #14
    apriliaforum expert rule62's Avatar
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    I went back to what the manual suggests... 5 turns out (preload), 5 clicks out (rebound), and then lowered the yokes to show 3 lines instead of 2. Can definitely feel more front end weight bias. Took the same highway interchanges I was speaking of, during a shakedown run of my RB EVO, and it feels a bit better. Hopefully I'm on my way to dialing it in.
    2014 DD 750 ABS - Spark exhaust, Arrow decat, headers (all ceramic coated), BMC filter, BikeMaster DLFP16-BS LiFePO battery, NGK iridium plugs, GPR steering damper, DD 1200 fully adjustable rear shock w/spring swap, 2016 Tuono Factory wheels, 15/44 520 conversion (PBR/Superlite/DID), Strada-7 fork preload adjusters, Samco 2-piece hose kit w/clamps, Engine Ice, Renazco Racing seat, EvoTech tidy tail, Aprilia grab handles, shorty levers, crank-case breather mod, evap-can delete... and a Rapid Bike EVO.

  15. #15
    apriliaforum Member Ametts21's Avatar
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    How many miles on the bike? Might need change fork fluid anyways you could go to a heavier weight pretty easy job once the forks are off. I bought one of these cheap front stands to do tire changes and fork work I believe it was $50 bucks, requires a little lift with 4x4s as the dorso is tall, and remove the front fender and brake splitter. Works descent enough. I don't trust the ones that go under the fork legs and they don't work for fork work obviously.

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