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Thread: Camier the new Rea?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by V4Victory View Post
    Yep because superbike holds no interest for the Spaniards and not much interest for the Japanese bike manufacturers either. Because Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha couldn't give two shits about superbikes , Kawasaki are running away with it and an uncompetetive series is of no interest to anyone.
    Edit Neither are KTM , Aprilia or BMW interested in world superbikes either.
    Ducati maintain an interest because they are the only manufacturer that can sell the same old ltd edition 40k bikes to fair weather bikers with more money than sense.
    And Kawasaki , well they are realists who know they can't cut it in GPs so are happy being top of the second division
    Well said.

  2. #32
    apriliaforum expert Powerful Pierre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V4Victory View Post
    Yep because superbike holds no interest for the Spaniards and not much interest for the Japanese bike manufacturers either. Because Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha couldn't give two shits about superbikes , Kawasaki are running away with it and an uncompetetive series is of no interest to anyone.
    Edit Neither are KTM , Aprilia or BMW interested in world superbikes either.
    Ducati maintain an interest because they are the only manufacturer that can sell the same old ltd edition 40k bikes to fair weather bikers with more money than sense.
    And Kawasaki , well they are realists who know they can't cut it in GPs so are happy being top of the second division
    Not so sure.......agreed Honda give little to no support to Ten Kate but its been that way since Colin Edwards won the championship on a factory bike, Suzuki dip in and out but have never had a full factory team as far as I can recollect, Yamaha do currently run a factory team out of Europe but it does have Japanese support. Aprilia? Well they're supposed to be supporting a factory effort now but its about as successful as their Motogp project. BMW also ran a big money factory team in recent years and failed miserably - but they do still support one of the teams in WSBK, forget which one but Jordi Torres and A N Other were on the bikes. KTM don't manufacture a suitable bike.

    The difference is Kawasaki & Ducati take WSBK seriously and have put together a proper effort. Ducati have a long history of participation and its a great shop window for their products and brand when it comes to selling the bikes and the image. Kawasaki also have a long history in the series and have decided to concentrate on WSBK for similar, but also no doubt, commercial reasons..........for a start its way, way cheaper than Motogp to participate in and because they have focused on developing the best machinery in the class, and now employ the best rider in the class, they have achieved their goal of winning and promoting the brand.....whether that has translated into greater bike sales I don't know but I would imagine that they weighed up the pros & cons of Motogp vs WSBK and decided that being successful in WSBK would give a better return than running a second tier Motogp team, especially when confronted by the unlimited spending power of Honda. Can't fault their logic.

    Its not their fault that the other factories aren't prepared to put the same effort/resources into WSBK and I can see no justification for the others whinging that its not fair.........punishing commitment & success but rewarding apathy & mediocrity by setting out to artificially influence the outcome of a championship is not a viable way of getting this series back on track IMHO.

    The Suzuka 8 hour machinery shows that the Japanese do still have an interest in superbikes, its encouraging that interest into WSBK that's the challenge against a background of declining superbike sales.

    And do Dorna even want it to succeed? They clearly give all their love & attention to Motogp, WSBK is like the ugly stepchild they were forced to take on because nobody else would........ and the idea of it challenging their prized asset in any way is unthinkable, it seems they'd rather turn it into a gimmicky side show that doesn't detract too much attention.

    And, as a long time Ducati owner, I'm deeply offended by the suggestion that I'm a fair weather biker with more money than sense! Although to be fair, when the weather's shit I'll be found riding something else.........

  3. #33
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    Part of the problem is the newer rules package of WSBK makes the bikes closer to the original stock streetbike. That seems like a great idea on the surface, one that reduces costs to race at the front. But it also means that if a manufacturer doesn't have a streetbike that will make a great superbike with the few changes allowed it can't compete at the front when another brand may have such a bike. For example, say the crank in the GSXR is not quite up to the task of reliably making that much power. Easy solution, swap in a better crank (that is what Yosh did). But the rules don't let you do that. So then you have to figure out a way to make a production crank that will handle the loads required and that the bean counters will approve the cost of. Suddenly it is harder to compete at the front.
    Kawasaki has put in the effort to make their ZX10 the best bike for WSBK. A few years back it was Aprilia that did the same thing, but when they did it there were more modifications allowed so the streetbike was mostly built to take maximum advantage of those modifications. Now you have the ZX10, which is not the best streetbike out there but it is the best WSBK bike out there. Ducati is trying, and they may get there with their new 4 banger. But no one else seems to be willing to make the required effort. The rest seem to be waiting for Kawasaki and Ducati to slow down (or be slowed down).
    A better judge of what the other manufacturers COULD do always used to be the Suzuka 8 Hours bikes. They have been allowed to do so much more there.

  4. #34
    apriliaforum expert Ricardo J's Avatar
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    The Singularity

    I'd love to see SBK de-restricted again, and allowed to run stuff like magnesium wheels and carbon brakes (like they used to!). SBKs were making 240+ horsepower in 2013-2014 before the regulations forced engine outputs downward. Make these tricked-out machines the basis of MotoGP, then eliminate the super costly and yet restricted "prototypes" raced today.

  5. #35
    apriliaforum expert Hansie's Avatar
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    Camier made some interesting times on the blade of 2017!
    Not even the 2018 with improved Electronics.

  6. #36
    apriliaforum expert meanstrk's Avatar
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    I have been paying attention to rider comments about the rules package, and they figure that Kawi is just going to redesign the engine to take advantage of the RPM restriction which suits Johnny's style and he will be a contender anyways. They key here is how much [re[ they do when they continue to get penalized for their success.

    Yes, I still think it is total bullshit to penalize a team for success. These rules are for the birds. This is the kind of crap that made me quit watching F1.
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  7. #37
    apriliaforum expert Hansie's Avatar
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    Camier 2nd, just one spot to go!

  8. #38
    apriliaforum expert Ricardo J's Avatar
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    And watch out for Toprak.

  9. #39
    apriliaforum expert Powerful Pierre's Avatar
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    Interesting shake up going on there........Leon is obviously good to see in P2, but also both Yamahas & Toprak in front of Sykes and the factory Ducatis only 8th 7 9th. Still no stopping JR tho', apparently he sacrificed a lot of his time on track to coach Toprak.......looks like it worked!

  10. #40
    apriliaforum expert Hansie's Avatar
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    Camiers time was on different tyres but still nice to see that maybe we have a championship next year with new faces on the podium.

  11. #41
    apriliaforum expert ape66's Avatar
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    Rumour is that there gunna make JR run cross ply tyres. And make him race with the pit limiter on

    But it would be something Dorna probably would consider.
    Last edited by ape66; 01-30-2018 at 06:57 PM.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo J View Post
    I'd love to see SBK de-restricted again, and allowed to run stuff like magnesium wheels and carbon brakes (like they used to!). SBKs were making 240+ horsepower in 2013-2014 before the regulations forced engine outputs downward. Make these tricked-out machines the basis of MotoGP, then eliminate the super costly and yet restricted "prototypes" raced today.
    It's tricky to position WSBK in the entertainment world. Reducing the ability to use special parts puts them closer to the stock class and increasing puts them closer to MotoGP. At the moment it looks like they might just as well do away with it in favour of Super Stock as it has become a bit of an orphan.

    Cheers

  13. #43
    apriliaforum Junkie buckwheat's Avatar
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    Camier could probably do more with that Kawi than Sykie when considering what he’s extracting from that Honda.

    Sounds like Camier’s times at this latest test might be the highlight of Honda’s WSBK program this year, given the personnel departures, lateness of electronics & differing philosophies of switching electronics at this point (excluding PJ’s Honda).
    Last edited by buckwheat; 01-30-2018 at 10:28 PM.
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  14. #44
    apriliaforum expert CRMNL's Avatar
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    love rea and what he's done, but none of us want to fall asleep watching wsbk. i do hope there is a challenge or two in the roster.
    hubris-that's the game with the blocks, right?

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  15. #45
    apriliaforum expert AxeManBlue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRMNL View Post
    love rea and what he's done, but none of us want to fall asleep watching wsbk.
    Ditto.

    Why doesn't Dorna focus on incentivizing the other teams to up their amount of "giving a fuck" to the level of Kawi? Artificially creating parity by dragging down the excellent creates a series that no one--riders, teams, fans--will respect. They have to see that.

    Granted, I checked out of last season as Chaz kept crashing himself out of the running and it turned into another J Rea spankdown. So I get how they'd want to do something about it. But they're focusing in the exactly wrong direction, and if they keep this up I think they'll kill it altogether.

    Rant over, back to work.
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