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Thread: Wiring Mod for charging issues.

  1. #46
    apriliaforum expert VikNWill's Avatar
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    WTF ? Where are the blue wires ?

    OK...Red/Black at the rectifier...no problem.

    Duh...no blue...just RED/BLUE stripe. What the hell, thats kinda close. Must be the right wires...snip snip.


    Will
    "It ain't eazy bein' cheesy!"

  2. #47
    apriliaforum expert cavender's Avatar
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    I don't have the red/blues on my '03, just solid blues instead that look to be bigger awg than the r/b's I've seen in some of the pics. Can't be for sure about that though. I assume somewhere along the line the factory ran out of red/blue and had to switch to the solid blue reel. Somebody else may know when they changed colors. Everything else seems ot be consistent.

  3. #48
    apriliaforum expert VikNWill's Avatar
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    Red/blue or just plain blue was close enough. My bike was manuf. 2/2002, maybe the later ones got the blue wires.

    Did the mod, no more smoke, the battery charges....back to boring Honda mode.




    Will
    "It ain't eazy bein' cheesy!"

  4. #49
    apriliaforum Member Pondlife's Avatar
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    Did the mod yesterday. I had been noticing a few minor starting problems recently that had been causing me to occasionally take the car just in case so I thought it was time to try this out. I also took readings after hard wiring the yellow wires but before running the extra wire. All figures are with main beam on.

    Before doing anything------------13.92@idle 13.00@4000rpm
    Reg hard wired but no extra wire--14.00@idle 13.10@4000rpm
    After modification-----------------14.20@idle 13.70@4000rpm

    Thanks VERY much to Hans and Rab for giving us this opportunity to sort out Aprilia's problem. I am another delighted owner (no thanks to Aprilia themselves )
    Last edited by Pondlife; 11-05-2004 at 05:05 AM.

  5. #50
    apriliaforum Junkie Hansb's Avatar
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    Thanks VERY much to Hans and Rab for giving us this opportunity to sort out Aprilia's problem.
    I say thank you Ian....

    After modification-----------------14.20@idle 13.70@4000rpm
    13,70 Volt @ 4000 rpm tells that your battery is a bit tired.
    Hans

  6. #51
    apriliaforum Member Pondlife's Avatar
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    Even more help! Thanks Hans. My bike is one of the early ones so I had thought it would be an idea to replace it soon. Perhaps I'll bring it forward further still. I'm typing this from my hotel in Shanghai so I've got good access to chinese tea if you need any Hans!

  7. #52
    apriliaforum Junkie Hansb's Avatar
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    I'm typing this from my hotel in Shanghai so I've got good access to chinese tea if you need any Hans!
    Thanks Ian, but my my favorite is the english way. Dark and strong.
    Still a lot in stock, thanks to you.
    Hans

  8. #53
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    ??

    13,70 Volt @ 4000 rpm tells that your battery is a bit tired.
    Does a partially "done in" battery restrict voltage from the rectifier? That is, accept less charge?
    John

  9. #54
    apriliaforum Junkie Hansb's Avatar
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    Does a partially "done in" battery restrict voltage from the rectifier? That is, accept less charge?
    Correct. The stator is a permanent magnet delivering full power all the time. The rec is just a diode brigde bleeding the unused power to ground.
    When the battery is getting "tired", less power is stored.
    More power is bleeding to ground. This push the voltage down.
    Hans

  10. #55
    apriliaforum expert Stu_O's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Hansb
    Correct.
    Sorry to stick my nose in here, but no... I'm afraid that's incorrect.
    The stator is a permanent magnet delivering full power all the time.
    Again, incorrect. The rotor is a permanent magnet. The stator is three separate wires wound around a metal core. As the rotor rotates, it induces an AC voltage in the stator windings; the greater the rotational speed, the greater the voltage. The amount of AC voltage at any given rotor rpm is a function of the magnet strength and the number of turns in each stator winding.
    The rec is just a diode brigde bleeding the unused power to ground.
    Once again, incorrect. The recifier is indeed a diode bridge, but its function is to convert the 3-phase AC voltage pulses from the stator into DC. It's the regulator portion of the regulator/rectifier that bleeds excess current to ground.
    When the battery is getting "tired", less power is stored. More power is bleeding to ground. This push the voltage down.
    That statement is totally off-the-wall.

    As with the Caponord, some of your Futura charging problems are caused by high resistance wiring connections. But most of the trouble is caused by the fact that the regulator/rectifier unit used by Aprilia adjusts DC output based on AC input to prevent battery overcharge. That's why you see voltage going down as rpm goes up. This regulator has no way to detect actual battery voltage and simply "errs on the side of safety," if you will. This results in the battery being undercharged at cruising rpm, and it shortens battery life through sulfation. The situation wouldn't affect the older "flooded" style batteries to the same extent, but sealed, AGM batteries need a charging voltage of around 14.2 volts.

    A better method (more accurate voltage control) is to incorporate a circuit that actually senses battery voltage and adjusts output accordingly. Shindengen, the company that makes the regulator/rectifier, manufactures both types. The voltage-sensing type appears identical, but it has an additional wire that's attached to a switched source of battery voltage.

    Okay, I'm gone. Sorry for the interruption.

    Stu
    Last edited by Stu_O; 11-15-2004 at 11:19 AM.

  11. #56
    apriliaforum expert Befbever's Avatar
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    I'll leave the experts to work this out.


    I had 13,6@4k rpm with lights on and 14,1 at the same rpm with light off this weekend. Since I had been using the battery without the bike running I thought I'd give it a charge afterwards.
    It only showed 1,5 amps and this went down to 0,5 amps within half an hour so the battery was pretty topped up I thought.

  12. #57
    apriliaforum expert bikpaintr's Avatar
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    As with the Caponord, some of your Futura charging problems are caused by high resistance wiring connections. But most of the trouble is caused by the fact that the regulator/rectifier unit used by Aprilia adjusts DC output based on AC input to prevent battery overcharge.

    I'd weigh the problems the other way from my experience. After doing my version of the wiring mod the battery is getting plenty of juice; 14.3v @idle & 13.9v @4k w/lights on. I've had no further problems with the battery in over 10,000 miles.
    John B.
    02 Ash Black w/Staintunes, PC3 w/custom map, Evo Filter, Mille Air Boot, derestricted air box, Heli-Bars, Wilbers shock, new rectifier, Scottoiler, heated grips, T'meister, c/f frt. fender & hugger.

  13. #58
    apriliaforum Junkie Hansb's Avatar
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    Stu_O

    Thank you for your superb and detailed description of the charging system. I am standing right for most of your information. But I have a few comments.
    My description of the generator was a "short version" Your description is correct.
    The rectifier has of cause a diode brigde to correct the AC in to DC.
    But the main question her was: Is charging voltage lower on a "tired" (sulfationed) battery than a fresh?
    I mean yes. This is my own experience over years. I also saw this on my futura after the wiring was modified. There was 0,4 Volt differerence old/new battery. Why? Propably because the inner resistance in the battery is higher.
    But most of the trouble is caused by the fact that the regulator/rectifier unit used by Aprilia adjusts DC output based on AC input to prevent battery overcharge.
    I am not shure this is correct. Had a multimeter connected to the generator with the rec connected and not connected. The higher RPM, the higher AC voltage.

    This regulator has no way to detect actual battery voltage and simply "errs on the side of safety," if you will.
    That is correct. But the regulator detects how much power the bike (including the battery) need. And regulate the bleeding to ground.
    Hans

  14. #59
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    Dealer Fix

    I had been putting off doing the "mod" since the bike is under the 2 year unlimited mileage warranty. Well it finally happen to me, the brown plug melt-down, and I got stranded, luckily not to far from home. My dealer repaired the problem by eliminating both the brown and the white connectors and sodering the wires. The voltage figures with this fix are:

    13.99 @ idle, and 13.60 @ 4000 rpm

    In discussing the "mod" with the dealer tech, he suggested seeing if the fix he did would do the trick. If I have any further problems he will replace the red/black wire with larger guage wires and run the additional ground. It is all under warranty so I am willing to go along with the dealer.

    Live for Today, the present is really all you have.

  15. #60
    apriliaforum expert Stu_O's Avatar
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    Because the numbers you just posted are considered acceptable (by Aprilia per the service manual), it's unlikely Aprilia would reimburse your dealer for further investigation/repairs. The problem, in my view, is that 13.6 volts is enough to maintain a fully charged battery but not enough to recharge a partially depleted one as will occur after riding in heavy traffic long enough to activate the cooling fan several times. A full recharge requires attaining 14.2 volts...minimum. Again in my opinion, this is one cause of battery sulfation and reduced battery life.

    It's possible that your battery is partially depleted right now. If that's true, it might eventually reach 14 volts or more if you held the revs off idle for a while. I'd suggest that before making a decision to take further action, you might want to fully charge your battery, then redo your voltage check. You may be surprised to find the numbers are much better.

    Stu

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