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Thread: Tank fuel pump hoses - Regular maintenance item !

  1. #1
    apriliaforum Junkie
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    Tank fuel pump hoses - Regular maintenance item !

    Hi

    I wanted to make this topic to inform others about the tank hoses,a little how to etc.Also want to shout out a big thanks to the forum to help me troubleshoot my rough running issue.This will probably be the longest post ive ever written on a forum,its the result of a very happy tuono owner.English is my third language,but I hope the content will help future help seeking forum members to find the fault.

    I have had my 03 tuono for over a year now,current mileage is 26000km.When i first bought the bike it was running very well on all aspects.Ive ridden different sorts of motorcycles for 10 years,and the tuono was running a lot better than most of the mc ive ridden.Fast forward a month ago the bike started running rough,like:
    *cutting out when whacking the gas open
    *surging a bit every know and then,like when riding at constant throttle it could slow down accelerate +-5km/h
    *Lackluster acceleration,not easily noticeable
    *When coldstarting the bike would start instantly and idle nicely,but die within a few seconds like the ignition was shut off.Holding the cold start lever all the way would result in it barely staying running on one cylinder and momentarily cut out making very loud clanking noises.After a few start attemps it would stay running normally with a nice idle
    ***I would like to point out that while ive read about people with the same issue,their bikes have showned different symptoms than mine.

    All the symptoms would vary from day to day,but I would say they were worse the colder the air temp was.Most days it was running so well that most riders would chalk it up to v-twin character,and you definately would know there was anything wrong unless youve ridden a healthy tuono.Some days the bike was almost unrideable,which is what really made me troubleshoot for a fault.
    My problem ended up being the short fuel hose,it was badly swollen with large cracks.The cracks are not visible since the hose is braided,they are only seen once you take the hose off.It was bleeding fuel pressure from the cracks.Our bikes are supposed to have 48psi fuel pressure,the fuel pressure regulator(located at the throttle body) bleeds fuel back to the tank through the return hose to regulate the fuel pressure.
    Low fuel pressure will cause a lean mixture(low pressure =less flow),also the injectors wont produce a nice mist if the pressure is wrong.This results in gas and air not mixing well which is bad as well.In my case the fuel leak was small enough that most days it was working very well for everyday riding.It would take a experiencer rider/racer to know there is a fault
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	228538All stock except one aba click clamp on the long hose,somebody has messed with it before.It doesnt show well but you can see how badly swollen the short fuel hose is.It was full of large cracks extending throughout the hose.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	228540Afterwards.All done except attaching groudni0n wire to fuel filter.


    Ok so now to the big news.Ive replaced the hoses and filters with the right clamps and the fuel system is fully functioning.How is my bike working?
    Better than it has even run while in my possession,by a long american mile.Its honestly the best running mc ive ever ridden.The power delivery is absolutely brutal,there is absolutely no delay.Whacking the throttle open feels like a bomb goes off under me ,ive almost wheelied it over by mistake when I first took it for a spin.
    *It no longer requires using the cold start lever even when starting cold.
    *There is not the slightest pop in the exhaust during engine breaking
    *It has more power than it has ever had in my possession.
    *It vibrates alot less.
    Mind you that before the rough running started the bike was running very very well(little did I know how well a tuono can run),it was running so well that I couldnt tell with my 10yrs experience that there was anything wrong with,I doubt 99% of riders would think there is no way it could run better.Yet the hose was already bleeding pressure back then,afterwards its easy to see all the small little symptoms that were already showing.

    This has been the single best performance mod ive done to my bike.I wonder how many tuono owners are running their bike thinking all is well,yet its already suffering a performance loss from leaky hoses.I didnt catch it before it was starting to run really bad.Inspecting the tank hoses will definately become a part of my maintenance scheme.I would strongly suggest other forum members to replace the hoses and filter as a precautionary measure,I hardly doubt the hoses are in good shape after 10yrs and you will not know there is fault before it really starts acting up.Worst case scenario your left stranded on the road.

    Our bikes are getting over 10 years old,inside the fuel tank is a fuel pump and fuel filter.The fuel is pressurized by the pump,it then flows through the long hose to the filter which is connected to the base plate by a short(roughly 4cm hose).The longer hose seems to last quite well in our tanks,its the short braided hose that seems to fail for most people.Mine was badly swollen with large cracks,the cracks are not visible because the hose is braided.The introduction of alcohol blended fuels certainly doesnt alleviate the issue.
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	228539The oetiker tool,5 oetiker clamps(one extra),ducati fuel filter(exactly the same filter as aprilia) and one very expensive fuel hose.It cost me all in all ~60e.If I can find all the parts in Finland with a couple of phone calls and google.Means that the rest of the world should have no problem finding them even easier

    Originally the hoses are fastened with oetiker(or oetiker like clamps),these are used because they clamp evenly on the whole hose circumference,and they do not cut into the hose like for example worm clamps.Personally I wouldnt use any other clamp than oetiker,but ive read about people doing ok with aba style clamps(not sure what they are called) like the ones af1 is suplying in their kits.The risk with using wrong clamps is the hose may slip off or cut into the hose.
    I found oetiker clamps at a local hydraulic store,they are not that uncommon to find in hydraulic stores,they cost me 1euro a piece and you need 4 for the job.The correct clamp for me was 03-GER-15.0 12,3-14,3mm(diameter) 8,2mm(width).But this can vary depending on the fuel hose that you use.
    Ducati and some car manufacturers like bmw also use oetikers so you may be able to score them from bmw/ducati dealers.
    You need a special tool to clamp the oetikers,I found a oetiker tool for 15euros at a cheapo tool store.Otherwise you can use a tool like this:Attachment 228534Just make sure that the ends are not sharp.
    A little tip,putting a bit of grease on the hose before putting the clamp on the hose will lessen friction.And will thus allow the oetiker to clamp even more evenly on the hose.

    The hose needs to withstand fuel both from the in- and outside.The hose inner diameter needs to be 8mm,the outer diameter in my case was 14mm.You need to make absolutely sure the hose is made to be submerged in fuel.The hose will not be cheap,I found a suitable hose made by gates at a large carparts store and it cost me roughly 13e for 20cm,thats roughly 15$/foot.

    Replacing the fuel filter is always good practice,but honestly im doubtful it needs replacing with low mileage on the bikes.Local ape dealer wanted outrages sums of money for the filter,so I ordered it from the ebay uk for 25e.Just search for ducati filter,its the black filter and exactly the same as aprilias.Pretty much any mc fuel injection filter with 8mm hose ends will do the job as long as its roughly the same size.Most filters have a flow of direction which is important to remember when putting it together.

    The fuel pump base plate is attached to the tank by 8 screws with a 7mm socket.This are torqued criss cross to 7nm(5.2 ft lbs).Its good pratice to replace the o-ring that seals between the tank and the plate.The manual also calls for loctite 518(oring/flange sealant).In my case the o-ring was flawless,and I didnt have 518 at hand when I did this repair in the middle of the night.Had to get to work the next morning with the bike
    I just cleaned both surfaces well and havent had any leakage.Tanks that have swollen badly because of ethanol are more prone to leakage,as the sealing surface may have warped.Always check afterwards that the fuel tank is 100% leakproof.

    The main fuel line is attached by banjo bolts on both the throttle body and fuel pump base plate flange.You need to drain the fuel from the tank before removing the tank.You can use a external pump and pump it out through the filler cap.Or you can empty it through the return hose.The return hose has a quick connector(white),simply disconnect it and push with a suitable tool into the connector and it will start pouring fuel.There is no quick disconnect on the main line,and loosening the banjo bolts will cause fuel to leak.I would strongly recommend fitting a quick disconnect on the main line too.I know there are topics about it on the forum.It will make any tank related jobs so much easier in the future.
    There are 2 aluminum washers that seals the banjo bolts,these are replacable items every time you loosen the banjo bolts.I didnt have new ones at hand when I did the job so I reused the old ones,and got away with it since it doesnt leak a drop.But I would still strongly recommend replacing them.The banjo torque spec is 22nm (ft lbs ?).

    Another good topic about this issue: http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...highlight=fuel

  2. #2
    apriliaforum expert RossGuzzi's Avatar
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    Great write up.
    After doing my water pump (today) I may do this just to future proof the bike for the next 10 years
    Tuono Racing + KTM 990 Adventure =

  3. #3
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    Hey, thanks for posting this.

    My 2003 with 33,000 miles is doing exactly the same thing. I wasn't sure where to look first, but this post leads me right to place I need to be. The hoses are looking kind of crappy and dry. Gonna replace a few of them.

  4. #4
    apriliaforum Junkie
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    Just replace all the hoses inside the tank,if you must I think the top(longer hose) can survive if put together with proper clamps.

  5. #5
    apriliaforum expert VFR4Lee's Avatar
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    Good detailed post.
    Your typed English is much better than many people who have English as a first and only language.
    My Tuono suits me to a "T".
    Thunder!

  6. #6
    apriliaforum Junkie dnol04's Avatar
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    I am going about doing this as I have 44,500 miles up with the original filter and hoses.
    Having an awful job trying to find submersible grade fuel hose such as this, http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?br...ocation_id=541

    Even searching on line in the UK not having any luck, also tried ringing around to several places with no luck.
    ROAD RACING IRELAND...DO IT BETWEEN THE HEDGES

  7. #7
    apriliaforum Junkie
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    Just ebay sae 30r10 fuel hose.Should find you plenty.

  8. #8
    apriliaforum Junkie dnol04's Avatar
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    Yeah, all results are from Australia and the US., I will get screwed for shipping.
    I might just contact AF1 and see if they can stick it in a padded envelope and send by standard mail.
    ROAD RACING IRELAND...DO IT BETWEEN THE HEDGES

  9. #9
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    That is a great post MCL, definitely on my to do list.

  10. #10
    apriliaforum newb Langen's Avatar
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    Great post MCL!
    I will check mine during winter. Dont think i have the problem you did, but a little preventive maintenance never killed anyone!
    Kippis!
    Hanging on

    -04 Red

  11. #11
    apriliaforum expert RossGuzzi's Avatar
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    Was looking up where to get hose and clips today. I was recomended these to secure hoses. http://www.autopartswholesalers.com....s-packs-of-10-

    $50 just to get a crimp tool for the other clips !!

    Think I will try these first. What you all think ??
    Tuono Racing + KTM 990 Adventure =

  12. #12
    apriliaforum Junkie dnol04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossGuzzi View Post
    Was looking up where to get hose and clips today. I was recomended these to secure hoses. http://www.autopartswholesalers.com....s-packs-of-10-

    $50 just to get a crimp tool for the other clips !!

    Think I will try these first. What you all think ??

    That's the same type of clip I will be using anyway, once its not the type of clip with the slots cut out in it, click on the link at the bottom of MCL'S post and you will see in the picture the type of clip I mean.
    ROAD RACING IRELAND...DO IT BETWEEN THE HEDGES

  13. #13
    apriliaforum expert TRexRacing's Avatar
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    If the pump was easy access the cheap clamps would be no problem. However consider the work needed to access the fuel pump before you cheap the job out. Doing it twice is expensive. What's your time worth? Have you considered borrowing the clamping tool?


  14. #14
    apriliaforum Junkie dnol04's Avatar
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    I eventually located where to get submersible spec fuel hose locally and somewhere you should all have easy access to, from
    a BMW dealer, its the hose BMW use in their cars and motorbikes for their pumps that are inside the fuel tanks. The part number is 16121180040, cost me €33 but comes in one
    full length that is over 3ft long, enough to do 3 bikes.

    Replaced my fuel filter yesterday just for maintenance, bike running fine. Out of curiosity I cut the old filter open, you can see in the picture how dirty it was, bike has 44,600 miles up. Had no chance to drive it yet but that original filter does not look good.

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    ROAD RACING IRELAND...DO IT BETWEEN THE HEDGES

  15. #15
    apriliaforum Junkie
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    I would strongly advise against using anything else than oetiker clamps.The clamps can be bought at most hydraulic stores,any plier with "jaws" is sufficient,as long as it can crimp the clamp.

    Alot of people have tried those aba clamps,some have succeeded and some have failed.Even if the hose doesnt blow off and leave you stranded, it will likely leak,causing a fluctuating fuel pressure and affect engine running.

    A metal fuel pipe bursted on my boat engine,as a temporary fix to make the weekend I cut the fractured part off and joined it together using rubber fuel hose.It took no less than 3 of those aba clamps 120 degrees apart next to each other to seal the hose to the pipe.Since metal fuel lines can burst due to engine vibrations I have since then replaced the whole line with marine grade rubber fuel line with one oetiker clamp at each end.

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