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Thread: New Batter Dead :(, Where to start Looking?

  1. #16
    apriliaforum expert joeybeppy's Avatar
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    Haven't had a chance to check any of your suggestions yet but on my way in/out going through the garage here's the latest: charger on overnite-bike fires up great and full normal readings at rest and running. One nite w/o charger, barely turns over. What little I know about electric/electronics it almost seems like I have a direct short w/o on switch activated. Like it drains battery, not batter dead on it's own just sitting? Weird!

    Oh, and thanks for all the input thus far! Can't wait to check...
    (aka joeybeppy)

    Aprilia'less Tuono in my future!:2011 Kawasaki Concours, 1979 Yamaha XS1100, 1980 Honda CB750

  2. #17
    apriliaforum expert Robert Borchert's Avatar
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    You may have a constant draw. The ignition switch should break the circuit when "off", but there are two routes that have no switch, the regulator / rectifier and the starter solenoid. Next to the battery are the two 30A main fuses. Are you handy with a multimeter?

    If you have a low amperage scale, with the ignition OFF, you can probe the socket contacts of each removed 30A fuse bay. This will help isolate which circuit might have a parasitic draw. You'll have to connect the test lead at the multimeter's 1A or 10A socket- but remember!! If you probe DC voltage and ground, you'll blow the meter's internal fuse. Same thing will happen if trying to test voltage later with the lead connected in the AMPS socket.

    You will read a few milliamperes of current running to the ECM and instrument cluster circuits; I haven't tested the futura's quiescent draw, but in automotive applications (and huge batteries), 20mA or less is acceptable. On the bike, I'd venture 5mA or so maximum.

    The starter solenoid is an odd duck. Over time, vaporized copper particles can "join hands" making a parasitic draw. An improvised resistor of sorts. The diodes of the regulator can fail over time, leaking a little reverse current.

    Do you have a proper wiring diagram?

    Bob

  3. #18
    apriliaforum expert Motech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Borchert View Post
    I haven't tested the futura's quiescent draw, but in automotive applications (and huge batteries), 20mA or less is acceptable. On the bike, I'd venture 5mA or so maximum.
    That is accurate. I have tested key-off draw on Futuras, Milles and Tuonos and have never measured over 3 mA.
    No Matter Where You Are, There You Go!

  4. #19
    apriliaforum expert RAS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeybeppy View Post
    Haven't had a chance to check any of your suggestions yet but on my way in/out going through the garage here's the latest: charger on overnite-bike fires up great and full normal readings at rest and running. One nite w/o charger, barely turns over. What little I know about electric/electronics it almost seems like I have a direct short w/o on switch activated. Like it drains battery, not batter dead on it's own just sitting? Weird!

    Oh, and thanks for all the input thus far! Can't wait to check...
    You are not, by some chance, turning the key past the lock position and turning on the park lights?

  5. #20
    apriliaforum expert thesprocket26's Avatar
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    ^^^ hahahhah good call. That *almost* got me once. Locked the steering, turned around for a glance and noticed the lights were on. WTF? Looked at the ignition switch, saw there was *lock* and *park* positions

  6. #21
    apriliaforum expert joeybeppy's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the great check points. I wanted to start with the starter relay by the battery. I got the Aprilia Service Manual out which shows basic checks for the electrical systems but with my very limited understanding of electronics, I still suffer. So my first question on the relay check the manual states to disconnect all three connections (2 bolts and one plug). Then to supply 12V to the plug terminals and check ohms across the 2 bolts. Do they literally mean to run straight 12V to the connector? Like direct wires from a battery? And if so, would it matter what pos/neg goes to what wire and would it matter if I connect directly to 12V would it matter what bolt I check ohms across?
    (aka joeybeppy)

    Aprilia'less Tuono in my future!:2011 Kawasaki Concours, 1979 Yamaha XS1100, 1980 Honda CB750

  7. #22
    apriliaforum expert Motech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeybeppy View Post
    Thanks for all the great check points. I wanted to start with the starter relay by the battery. I got the Aprilia Service Manual out which shows basic checks for the electrical systems but with my very limited understanding of electronics, I still suffer. So my first question on the relay check the manual states to disconnect all three connections (2 bolts and one plug). Then to supply 12V to the plug terminals and check ohms across the 2 bolts. Do they literally mean to run straight 12V to the connector? Like direct wires from a battery? And if so, would it matter what pos/neg goes to what wire and would it matter if I connect directly to 12V would it matter what bolt I check ohms across?
    Resistance testing is 90% useless for effective diagnostics.

    Test relay like this:

    With DVOM red lead hooked to battery positive and black to relay starter lug, you should see battery voltage. Now crank it. Voltage should drop below .2 volt while cranking. If it does not--if you get closer to 1 volt or higher while cranking--your relay is shot.
    No Matter Where You Are, There You Go!

  8. #23
    apriliaforum expert joeybeppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motech View Post
    Resistance testing is 90% useless for effective diagnostics.

    Test relay like this:

    With DVOM red lead hooked to battery positive and black to relay starter lug, you should see battery voltage. Now crank it. Voltage should drop below .2 volt while cranking. If it does not--if you get closer to 1 volt or higher while cranking--your relay is shot.
    Black to either of the relay lugs?
    (aka joeybeppy)

    Aprilia'less Tuono in my future!:2011 Kawasaki Concours, 1979 Yamaha XS1100, 1980 Honda CB750

  9. #24
    apriliaforum expert Motech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeybeppy View Post
    Black to either of the relay lugs?
    Black to the relay STARTER lug, the one that goes from relay to starter. This will include the internal relay contacts in the test. If you test the other one, you're only testing volt-drop of battery positive cable.
    No Matter Where You Are, There You Go!

  10. #25
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    Been there done that,... my problem turned out to be a brand new gel battery!!! A day after recharging I would be down to 11.9V.

  11. #26
    apriliaforum expert old git's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motech View Post
    Connections are key.

    Check battery voltage while cranking, especially when it barely cranks, right at the lead terminals of battery itself. If you still have over 10-11 volts while barely cranking, it's not your battery, it's either relay or bad connections. Check it with Volt-Drop testing like this:

    With meter positive on battery positive and meter negative on starter lug, crank it. Under .5 volt is good, if that's what you get, you're done, the whole positive side is good, including relay. However, if you find a large drop above a volt, you've got a bad relay or a bad connection somewhere (resistance) between battery and starter. Go find and fix it.

    Now go to the negative side. With meter negative on battery negative, connect meter positive to engine block and crank it. Same as above, under .5 volt is OK. If higher, go find ground resistance (connection) and fix it.

    Connections are key.
    Having been caught out last weekend, starter solenoid welded it self on, drained the batery & left me to be recovered.
    So, new battery, new solenoid, starts like a dream.
    However, did the above to check the connections, and need to check.
    positive meter onto battery positive, negative onto starter pin, I get 12.7v.
    Then i crank & it drops to 0.5v, and fires up.
    That proves my positive side is OK? If so I'm happy camper, but not understanding electrics all that well, wanted the shared knowledge on here to confirm.
    Thanks
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  12. #27
    apriliaforum expert Motech's Avatar
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    Yup, it's ok. A half-volt drop is a tad high in most cases, bit good on these bikes.
    No Matter Where You Are, There You Go!

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