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Thread: improving 05 mapping with tuneecu

  1. #16
    apriliaforum expert SoCalSV's Avatar
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    Ive timed up the cams to 103in 105ex and boy what a differance. Its like dropping two teeth from the front cog.
    How hard is this to do on the Fut? I'm starting to plan projects for the winter layup and was reading another thread where Mica was saying a cam swap also shows a worthwhile improvement (changing the exhaust cam for another intake cam?).

    I'm planning on stripping it down to the engine and frame, servicing all bearing, hoses and wiring; wondering if this is something I should put on the list while everything is apart.
    I donít need to trek through Africa and I donít need to climb Everest ó I need to ride every f***ing curvy road between here and there. Thatís far more powerful. Far more majestic. Far more of a journey.

  2. #17
    apriliaforum expert northern phil's Avatar
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    Youll need the engine out the frame. A dial guage, a timing wheel and the ability to grind the cam wheels.

    There is loads of write ups in the 1000cc section, read them and the links on how to read and calculate your cam timing. then read them again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and again untill it is clear in your mind.

    It is however hard to visualise some of the work, so when you get started it becomes apparent.

    Advise,

    DONT expect to do this in one sitting, take a week or so, (if you get it wrong, oh man). The cams on the rear cylinder go in the opposite direction to the front. Its not a difficult job, but not for a novice mechanic.

    Just my 2p.

    Phil.

  3. #18
    apriliaforum expert SoCalSV's Avatar
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    I've been collecting links, pics, walkthroughs, guides, techdocs etc for a while now in prep of the winter I haven't really done anything but peek around at things since I bought it, cos really all I've wanted to do since April is ride it, not tinker with it. Now that the Sprint is gone and there's plenty of room in the garage, I *might* shoot for a complete teardown and rebuild (not an engine teardown, but strip down to the frame and engine out to redo whatever wiring issues I may find). It'll def be laid up till March or April, and I've got plenty of "regular" stuff to do without messing with cams.....but while I'm in there.....
    I donít need to trek through Africa and I donít need to climb Everest ó I need to ride every f***ing curvy road between here and there. Thatís far more powerful. Far more majestic. Far more of a journey.

  4. #19
    apriliaforum expert Honeybadger's Avatar
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    man, when you guys start talking like the owner's manual reads, I sure struggle to follow!

    I think I'm going to just pay someone to get these results, because I sure am not happy with the fueling on my bike, even with the 05 map. I don't care about MPG (38-40 with a tooth down in the front sprocket) but I sure don't like how rough the engine feels compared to how it did on my mille.
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  5. #20
    apriliaforum expert terry mc's Avatar
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    Hey HB,
    Thats funny mine is the other way around the Futura is very smooth and the Mille just wants to hammer you all the time.
    It (the Mille) has always had the attitude don't like get off and I will find another rider.
    I may not be able to feel my hands when I am done with it, but I sure have a big grin!!!
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  6. #21
    apriliaforum expert spaz_666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northern phil View Post
    Youll need the engine out the frame. A dial guage, a timing wheel and the ability to grind the cam wheels.
    If you don't want to grind your own, AF1 has a slotted cam sprocket exchange program.

  7. #22
    apriliaforum Member ShiVaaN85's Avatar
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    I just got back from the moto gp trip which is a 3000 km round trip :-) had a bit of a play with the mapping. Since I have a no restriction exhaust I thought I'd richen it up so I first went with +7% on the fuel which made the ride Torquay but more vibration.. then went to +5% for fuel and +2.5 degrees on ignition running 91 octane and didn't knock??? But did run a lot smother but substantially les power then +7%...

  8. #23
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    hello shivaan85,

    my futura was running pretty good before i tried to improve the mapping, i think i tried about 10 diffrent maps this summer. my bike is almost stock (engine wise) and i just concentrated on making it running a little more smooth and using less fuel (1Liter = approx 1.80 euro). here are my 2 cents. hope it will help:

    - its very important where you richen up the fuel mixture in the mapping. you should add or subtract mixture in the correct region. in other words you need to identify the problem area first.at the normal cruising speeds the load is roughly 7 at 3000 rpm, 12 at 4000 rpm to 17 at 4500 rpm, there is of course a tolerance on this value due to windloading , bags ,slopes and passengers. Values below this are more for "pick up" and values above are more for accerelation. i ended up leaning it out in the cruising area by approx 5-7%. If you lean it out to much the engine get a sort of "hole" during acceralation in this area. The pick up and low rpm (< 3000 rpm) should be relative rich.if you lean it out to much here the engine get rough. additional fuel at low revs gives better throttle respons.

    - according to "catfish"from the capanord forum the" Ôgnition limit map"does not work for the caponord. This is probaly also the case for the futura. never tried it but you can set al values on zero and see what happens. The engine does seem to have some algoritm for ignition as i see some slight variations on my tune ecu during idling in my screen(or this is a seperate idling map)

    - before changing the ignition timing i checked the timing table of the rsv mille chip from "gabro"and the ignition values of the map which catfish made on the dyno for the caponord. both do not have nearly as much advance as the futura map on low and middle loading. i tried to run with the catfish map but the results were not good . the engine felt very slow, engine noise however is reduced. My futura seems to run very near the detonation limit on low loadings ( i run 95 octane fuel and run quite lean mixtures)

    - i tried to run some ingintion maps with -5 ,-3 and -1 degrees but never advanced it . at the end i setlled for a slight retard of -1 till -2 degrees in the 3000-6000 rpm with a low load . for better pick-up i advanced the timing just above idle.The engine is very sensitive on ignition!

    - i noticed that the air intake temperature was always too high when the engine is hot. Especiaaly in the summer during city traffic i found the engine to be a little bit snatchy. i insulated the temperature probe with some closed cell foam (it is just above the radiator) and richend the mixture a couple of percent in the 2500-3000 rpm range. engine responded well on this.

    - tried diffent IFT settings ranging from 0 to 20. 20 exhaust smelled a bit rich but runs great. 0 smells ""good"" but was to lean in my opinion as the engine gets a bit snatchy. at the end i settled at 16.4. engine is very sensitive on IFT it plays a large roll in how the engine responds in the 1500-3000 rpm range.

    can give you my current map if you like, so you can see what i did.

  9. #24
    apriliaforum expert RAS's Avatar
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    I'm hardly an expert at this. But the Mille is a completely different animal with different cams. The Capo may share some parts, but is likely also tuned different for more bottom end. Using either as a reference might be OK if you had no other starting point. You'd be better off using maps that were sorted for the Futura. Especially if the bike is near stock.

    W/o converting your fuel numbers, you might be better off spending time and effort dialing in cam timing as it seems to vary from bike to bike.

  10. #25
    apriliaforum expert meanstrk's Avatar
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    I started with a base line 05 map, and progressively leaned out the RPM range used for touring, as in on the highway. I ended up with an approximately 10% leaner map from 3500RPM through 7500 RPM and left the top end alone. I did lean out the bottom some as well, but the end result was going from getting around 160 mile so the fuel light, to routinely getting oer 200 miles to the fuel light, with no change on top end grunt. This was done with the butt dyno, but later on, I ran it on the dyno and it showed a pretty linear torque curve with 78lbs tq and 118hp.

    The Futura likes to rev, while the Mille prefers lower RPM's. The Mille for sure has a whole lot more grunt down low.
    Ron
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  11. #26
    apriliaforum expert RAS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanstrk View Post
    The Futura likes to rev, while the Mille prefers lower RPM's. The Mille for sure has a whole lot more grunt down low.
    Some of that's likely in the weight dif, no?

  12. #27
    apriliaforum Member kurts's Avatar
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    Is your map online for viewing anywhere? Would be interesting to compare it to mine. Mine has been dyno tuned but if I compare the "staintune, no baffle" map that's out there with the one in my bike they are very similar. Looks like they started with that map and went from there.

    One thing I don't know about tuneECU is, if one were using a dyno and had tuneECU running, would it show which zone the engine was operating in? If it doesn't, how would one know which zone to adjust?




    Quote Originally Posted by meanstrk View Post
    I started with a base line 05 map, and progressively leaned out the RPM range used for touring, as in on the highway. I ended up with an approximately 10% leaner map from 3500RPM through 7500 RPM and left the top end alone. I did lean out the bottom some as well, but the end result was going from getting around 160 mile so the fuel light, to routinely getting oer 200 miles to the fuel light, with no change on top end grunt. This was done with the butt dyno, but later on, I ran it on the dyno and it showed a pretty linear torque curve with 78lbs tq and 118hp.

    The Futura likes to rev, while the Mille prefers lower RPM's. The Mille for sure has a whole lot more grunt down low.
    03 Futura

  13. #28
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    My engine is basicly stock, unristriceted, with an old mile boot and a bosch fuelpressure regulator(standard pressure), The map i am currently using is basicly the 05 map with some small fuel and ignition trims. The 05 map is very good in my opinion, its just a little bit rich in some area,s and the ignition has a litle rooom for a bit of a smoother curve. Developed on the road over the summer on my normal commute with speeds ranging from 50 to 150 km/h. I did not do any dyno time or measurements with a lambda sensor. i did try some stuff with a CO gauge but found it to be unreliable. i would love to check the cam timings and i am sure that it would help(a lot) but that takes quitte a bit of effort.......

    has anyone done a dyno run on a standard machine with a plot of the air/fule ratio?
    Attached Files Attached Files

  14. #29
    apriliaforum expert meanstrk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAS View Post
    Some of that's likely in the weight dif, no?
    I wonder how much difference there actually is...

    I have emailed my map to a few people before. I don't know how to make it viewable on line though.
    Ron
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    Colin Edwards RSV R Mille #066 (Sold now. Sigh...)
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    For custom paint work, check out https://www.facebook.com/Trading-Paint-162751633826626/

  15. #30
    apriliaforum expert RAS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanstrk View Post
    I wonder how much difference there actually is...

    I have emailed my map to a few people before. I don't know how to make it viewable on line though.
    The dry weight for the mille is listed in the low 400 lbs range. So up near the 100 lbs delta and that's w/o the bags. Add in lighter wheels to get spinning and that's gotta be felt.

    From your description of the mileage improvements you made a while back, yours is likely dialed in just about perfect. Mine has run so well and given such good mileage numbers from the git go, I refuse to upgrade from the 02 map - best to leave well 'nough alone sometimes. I've never had it on any diagnostic computer - knock fine, italian wood.

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