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Thread: crazy problems with 2007 RSVR - help please

  1. #1
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    crazy problems with 2007 RSVR - help please

    OK, for starters, this bike was wrecked by the previous owner (the now banned R3dJok3r on this forum) and had been modified to eliminate "all unnecessary" wiring. This eliminated turn signals, etc. but eventually the O2 sensor (it is on Map 2 though), the sidestand switch I think, and the immobiliser, maybe more. Wiring was almost completely rerouted to the tail of the bike. He had several electrical gremlins before and after this surgery, some of which he didn't tell me about and I learned about reading his post here extensively, and had EFI issues all the time. He never did plug it into an AXONE to diagnose though to my knowledge, something that should have been done long ago IMO.
    After I bought it, it ran fine when I cruised around the neighborhood to test. It's purely a track bike now so no street rides were done so there may have been issues that I didn't see yet. I got new plastics and pulled the tank to paint to match. Bike cranked fine at home and off to my first track day I went.

    First track day: After running a couple minutes or so in the paddock engine will cut off unexpectedly. Sometimes it would restart only to do it again. Sometimes it wouldn't restart after several starts. I started checking connections everywhere but no patterns emerged. Eventually it would start again but don't know why. Pattern repeated until my attempts to crank it resulted in a dead battery. I noticed a crease in the high pressure fuel line that resulted from being pinched between the tank and the frame and thought that was it at first but don't think so now. After my battery died from to many attempts to crank it, I borrowed a battery and the problem disappeared. Don't know if it was the battery, coincidence, or if disconnecting the battery reset an error code. Even after that, a wire that runs from a 30 amp fuse would get very hot very quickly when the bike was on. Finished the day and returned the borrowed battery. Charged mine fully and reinstalled. I replaced the crimped fuel line just to be safe. The fuel line may have been a red herring. I may have multiple things going on here or may have several problems that all come from one root, i.e. stator, but not sure yet.

    Track day #2: Runs good first session although a tad sluggish on the bottom end for v-twin. Second session I start getting intermittant power cuts offs. Quite abrupt but very short. I mess with connections and put the battery on a charger between sessions although voltage tests at the battery checked out. I'm able to continue until it completely shut off in turn 6 after half a lap in the 4th session. Cannot get it to crank at all. After unplugging and replugging several connectors, after doing this with the connector between the R/R and battery, it fires right up. I finish out the day. I thought a bad connector was the issue and I cut the connector and the nearby brown connector out and replaced with butt splices for all one wire at a time to eliminate mismatch.

    Track day #3 As usual, the first session was awesome for a few laps then the abrupt but brief power cuts reappear when trying to accelerate on the straights. Couldn't find anything this time so I call AF1 and Micah suggests that it's likely starving for fuel and says to check the fuel pump lines inside the tank (a common flaw). They were loose and were replaced with proper clamps. Reinstalled the fuel pump but next session, no difference. Had to short shift all day at about 8k. Riders behind me said the bike is throwing big flames and black smoke on down shifts into corners. Ran on the dyno at the end of the day and found the A/F ratio starts out at about 14:1 at 4k rpm but starts to decrease a little then decreases sharply at around 7k to about 10:1 and stays there until at about 9k it climbs out slowly back up to 13k where it plateaus until redline. The "stumble" didn't occur on the dyno though. Seems to only happen under strong loads. This really stunk up my track day because I was on the very fast VIR Full Course and was getting passed everywhere but in the twisty stuff.

    Track day #4. It was a little hesitant to crank on the 60 degree morning. Cranked fine later. Went out in session one and was able to wind it up to redline with no problem but still running super rich. The stumble started returning again in session 2 so I short shifted or ran only in 3rd (short tight track). Came into the pit once and it hung up at 3k rpm with no thottle. Very odd and this is new. It worked great for a another session while nursing it in 3rd but then started losing all drive after periods without positive throttle. Would stumble and not recover after esses or downhill turns like it had shut off completely If I clutched it in and revved, it would perk back up. I'm assuming I was able to purge the raw fuel and it would fire right again. Kept it in 3rd the whole time so I could keep the throttle on more. This worked for a little but then started stumbling hard again. Finally pitted and shut it off for lunch. After sitting a bit, it worked fine for a few laps then reappeared. I came into the hot pit and turned it off out of frustration. It was getting dangerous. I recranked it and tried again and it ran good for a little. If I pitted, shut the engine off for a two or three minutes, and then took off again there was no problem for about 5 minutes then the process would repeat. I came back to my pit at the end of the session and it weakly surged from idle to about 2.5k rpm repeatedly. It didn't do it again though. I also noticed the oil level in my sight glass had gone up. Drained some oil and it smelled of gasoline. It's running so rich that fuel is getting into my crank case. I ran one more session like the last one just to have a little fun so that my day wasn't a total wash. Same thing as before. It's very predicable at least. I had fun and packed it up. Now I've got all the plastics off it and am ready to hunt down the issue(s).

    First thing, I plan to check the stator tonight and am going to replace the r/r regardless to a series type r/r. Might need to get a the lower output stator from Rick's if the stator is grounded or gone bad. Micah also gave me some targets to check but some I'm not sure how to check all of them. Does anyone have the ohm values for the external temp sensor, or any of the temp sensors for that matter, so that I can test and see if they're reading right. I really need to plug into an AXONE to see what signal they're actually sending to the ECU but I have to find one. The closest reputable dealer is 4.5 hours away in Greenville, SC. I also need to check the plugs, coils (not sure how to do this one), load test the battery, clean fuel filter, check fuel return line to make sure it's not pinched (don't think so), and intake manifold vacuum lines (tiny ones on the left hand side). I don't suspect fuel tank vent lines since the damn tank leaks out the top when you rock it up too high with gas in it so I don't think it can create a vacuum. Anything else y'all might suggest would be appreciated. This has been very frustrating to say the least.

  2. #2
    apriliaforum expert zjguy's Avatar
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    Definately check internal lines again. The electrical connections under the fuel base plate. Inspect spark plug boots for arcing against cylinder wall. All electrical connections. Actually i would go over that bike inch by inch sorry there is a lot of knowledgable people on here and use your search

  3. #3
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    Will do. And yes, I've read on here for hours. Just wanted to put all the info out there that I could and maybe hone down my search. Thanks for the tips. Not it's back to the wrenches for me.

  4. #4
    apriliaforum expert zjguy's Avatar
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    Kzmille amauri and a few others are the goto guys just search first then ask im sure they hate answering the same ? Good luck

  5. #5
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    Like I said, I've read for hours on here already. I know the two dozen things it could be. There's plenty of potential problems that are known issues. I simply put all the info in one place in case someone recognizes a pattern that I've missed or don't know about. Talked to Micah this afternoon and Noel a bit tonight and got some good starting points to check. We'll see.

  6. #6
    apriliaforum expert zjguy's Avatar
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    Sorry that did sound a little rude

  7. #7
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    No worries.

  8. #8
    apriliaforum expert Mille Racer 69's Avatar
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    Well I tested his ecu and dash on my bike cuz he wasn't sure if they were the problem.
    My bike ran fine with the ecu and dash. No error codes or triangle of death.
    I would suggest maybe trying to get a stock wiring harness.
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  9. #9
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    OK.Thanks for the info. I'm going to check for loose connections, bad vacuum lines, bad temp sensors, bad stator, and just replace the r/r with the series one. If that doesn't do the trick, a new harness may be necessary. Ugh.

  10. #10
    Honest always, feared often Micah / AF1 Racing's Avatar
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    Honestly after reading the "whole story" version I would assume a new wiring harness is in your future. The idle surging can really only be three things, a vacuum leak or a bad IAC (idle air controller) or I suppose the wiring powering it. It sounds as though the bike is severely butcherd. A harness would be a damn good start. You need to test every sensor too really. Keep me posted.
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  11. #11
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    OK. I'll see if I can't at least eliminate some things first. Is there any sort of racing wire harness available or would I have to go with a stocker? This bike is track only so I really don't need or want to deal with all the stuff for signals and lights, etc.

  12. #12
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    OK, new stuff to add. All I have to say is, wow. I am amazed at some of the worst wiring mistakes I've ever seen on a vehicle. A friend let me set up in his garage (it was 102 outside this weekend!) to get into my RSV and figure this out. Started at the source and worked back. Took the battery to Advance Auto and it checked out OK. Checked the stator output, 60+v for all three wire combos and I couldn't detect any ground faults. However, in the process of checking the wires coming from the R/R, I accidentally pulled the small black wire loose. I'm not even sure what this is for. Can't find it on any of the diagrams. Extra ground wire maybe? They only list the two green ones and the two red/white ones. So, I start cutting back the wire bundle wrapping, which was made by the previous owner, only to find that the red and white wires that come from the R/R to the 30amp fuse block and also from the battery are bundled in what I can only imagine to be some sort of loose association. There WAS NO splice, cap, solder, anything holding it together. This is the source of power for the whole damn bike and it came apart when I unraveled some tape. I was astounded but also relieved that I may have found a major source of my problems. Surely something so haphazard was at least contributing to my EFI woes by not making a good connection and throwing voltage fluctuations at the ECU. I also found a similar type connection (if you'd call it that) just hidden under some shrink wrap insulator for the wires that connect the intake air temp sensor. I fixed all these with either soldering or weather proof butt splices. I've already ordered a new series R/R to replace the crappy stock one so once it's in, I will solder in all the remaining connection to make them super solid.
    As for components, most of them checked out but I am a little skeptical of the MAP sensor, as it (as far I know) didn't seem to operating at the full range of resistance that I thought it would using a vacuum to test it. I'm also not sure about the TPS. The shop manual diagrams are a bit cryptic and in one test configuration, the resistance went down when we thought it should go up. I'm not sure we were testing the right blades but I still didn't think any of them would go down when I twist the throttle. I'll be plugging into an AXONE this week to hopefully check for any problems with hardware easier.
    I haven't tested the bike under load yet. I have to get it hot and then ride it hard for about 5 minutes for things to start showing up. It does still idle a bit weird. It sort of oscillates up and down a few hundred rpm, which makes me think of a vacuum issue but I can't find any leaks. The only ones I really know how to check are the small ones from the MAP sensor to the throttle bodies.

  13. #13
    apriliaforum Junkie WAZZU_Mille's Avatar
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    Not to get your thread off subject, but why was R3dJok3r banned? Did I miss something here?
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  14. #14
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    Not sure exactly. The last post I saw was him glowing about selling the bike and posted a pic of it in the back of my truck. He kind of pissed some people off when he decided to dump on Aprilia in an Aprilia forum when he had really butchered the bike unnecessarily and created some of his problems. Granted, there were some real issues with the bike but there were some bad decisions made and his post was just generally negative. That's all I know.

    Now back on topic, I just got back from the local dealer and we plugged it into the AXONE. It seems to run OK now and has map # 266536 in it. No errors came up so maybe I fixed it with all my wiring fixes, etc. I've got my fingers crossed. Now I need to test it.

  15. #15
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    Update time. After fixing/improving a bunch of questionable wiring, replacing the regulator/rectifier with the CE605SB and soldering the connections, replacing the dry and cracked vacuum cap that was on the front throttle body which formerly fed the flapper valve, plugging into the AXONE to make sure nothing came up in error, inspecting the resistance on every sensor, checking every vacuum hose I could find, and pulling the fuel pump and reclamping the hoses I think I may have it fixed. Just did a test ride and she was STRONG, all the way to redline over and over. Damn, I hope it's all fixed. Track days in less than three weeks and I'm so ready to have her run like I remember.

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