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Thread: Starting Problems Trouble Shooting

  1. #106
    apriliaforum expert deefred's Avatar
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    Ask them first how they came to the conclusion that the stator must be replaced.
    Then let them show you how they measured (if they now did that)
    2001 RST Futura in stream Silver.
    Mods: Modified Öhlins fork from mille R, EBC brake discs, HEL front brakelines, Carbon RS 250 front fender, Wiring mod for charging. Engine related:05 map, Iridium plugs, tuneboy, derestriced intake, old mille airboot, staintunes exhaust. Lambda bung hardbrazed in the "breadbox". Öhlins mille R rear shock with 110N/mm spring and the integrated hydraulic preload adjuster. LED Voltmeter installed inside the dash for monitoring charging. Duc 999 radial m/c for brake and clutch. EBC 320mm brake discs
    NWS hugger. Equipment: Famsa tankbag,
    CBR 600 -07 MOSFET R&R FH008EE providing stable 14.4 - 14.5 V (with my wiring mod). Daytona heated grips with mccoi pwm controller and automatic chain oiler

  2. #107
    apriliaforum expert spesnaz's Avatar
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    As a mechanic, I can tell you with confidence that this sounds like a shotgun repair. Replace everything, and it will be as good as new, right? Sure.

    The stator is easily replaced when the cover is removed, so they'd like to change it. Did you have a charging system problem before the start problem? I would focus on the noise and no-start issue. The starter is doing its job, but the sprag clutch sounds like it's in the hurt locker. There are a few threads here that even show the sprag replacement in pictorial form.

    As far as expensive parts go, the labor should be in the same ballpark whether you're replacing the inner and outer sprag races, or just the sprag itself. This requires a close inspection of these surfaces when all is disassembled. You may just need a new clutch unit. The only way to damage the starter is if it has been overheated, or if the sprag seizes and the running engine overspeeds the starter armature. In the video, it sounds like the starter motor is OK.

    Bob

  3. #108
    apriliaforum expert J.R. Bob Dobbs's Avatar
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    So the new question is: do you want them touching your bike at all? Is piss-poor troubleshooting and an obvious lack of understanding (or simply a desire to sell unnecessary parts) a warning of poor workmanship to follow?

    Or maybe they gave you a worse-case scenario and will inspect parts once it is disassembled, in which case this is more reasonable...... In this case you have already been told this and have stated it here incorrectly.

    In it's current fully assembled state and failing to start, sprag clutch is all that stands out as the probable cause given your video and common failures of these bikes. Funny they gave you a big parts list and haven't mentioned wiring connectors.
    Jap bikes suck.

  4. #109
    apriliaforum expert kzmille's Avatar
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    Yeah, if the sprag is failing it would be next to impossible to determine that the starter was bad.
    This is America. Use your turn signals or WE WILL KILL YOU

  5. #110
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    I know this thread has received no attention for a year but all this 'keep the bike plugged into a tender' etc has me confused unless you all live in the Arctic, a decent battery with a decent charge from a ride out average 100 miles should keep the battery OK for weeks, I can go out to my kwack now after three weeks of temps at less than 4deg C hit the button and the bike will fire within a second.

    I'm no lecky either but theres something on these bikes draining your batteries for no other reason than whatever it is has been shoddily fitted and rather than replace batteries at the drop of a hat has no-one investigated as to what is causing this problem?

    I burnt out my reg/rec 2/3 years back and thought it was the stator but I was at 50k miles so expect a few niggles, I replaced it with one from roadstercycle after reading up on rectifiers being a common problem, though I've never had one go pop on me before, so if this bike seller gets back from offshore and I get this bike I'll be doing that for starters.

    Something else I always do on any second hand bike I buy is strip it, electrics ways at any rate, clean up every plug and connector throughout the bike, replace any which look crappy like the indicator ones on the kwak, they were junk and then give each plug a dab of vaseline or electrical grease if theres any left in the cave and I do mean every connector, to top it off I'll spray the loom with WD40 to try to keep the damp at bay.

    I do this because I'm an electrical incompetent especially when it comes to fault finding and it seems to me theres a lot of knowledgeable people on here regards lecky systems so why not see what component it is discharging these things and if they're removeable, remove em!

    One of my oldest mates is a lecky genius and its him I turn to if I cant suss something out if he's not elsewhere in the world sussing some oil companies lecky probs out but I couldn't have a bike that I cant go to leathered up and find I'm sat in the garage with a non starter, surely a bike in this century needs to be more reliable than those built in the last one. So what is draining these machines?

  6. #111
    apriliaforum expert kzmille's Avatar
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    There is a constant drain from the instrument panel, gen 1 anyway. It's there to preserve the owners chosen settings. Small yes. Any bike with any kind of alarm or immobilizer has additional drain. The real problem here is known weaknesses in the charging system that lead to a weakened and damaged battery with little warning to the operator. And then there is the battery itself. It is really too small for the application. 0.9 and 1 liter twins from BMW during the 70's and 80's came with 28 Ah batteries while these bikes with much higher compression come with 12 or 14 Ah. My 18 horsepower riding mower has a bigger battery. The batteries are very highly stressed even if everything is working as designed. If you live and ride in a hot environment the battery gets very hot on a long ride further stressing it.
    This is America. Use your turn signals or WE WILL KILL YOU

  7. #112
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    So really the battery is simply not fit for the job then, cheers kzmille, I'll still be doing my usual stuff on the wirings/connectors as like I say I hate lecky problems, looks like it'll be getting plugged in too, something else to buy, although I do use a small router charger on the kwak battery if it sits more than a few weeks just to top the battery up, I have a car charger too but these bike batteries all have instructions not to use those.

  8. #113
    apriliaforum expert deefred's Avatar
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    There is not much margin for degradation on these bikes.
    With a good battery (I use the OEM) proper charging (14.0 - 14.7 V about) clean starter circuit connections and engine in good tune starting is not a problem. My battery needs now to be replaced but it was installed 2011 and had a some tough years when i lived in hot sevilla Spain.
    2001 RST Futura in stream Silver.
    Mods: Modified Öhlins fork from mille R, EBC brake discs, HEL front brakelines, Carbon RS 250 front fender, Wiring mod for charging. Engine related:05 map, Iridium plugs, tuneboy, derestriced intake, old mille airboot, staintunes exhaust. Lambda bung hardbrazed in the "breadbox". Öhlins mille R rear shock with 110N/mm spring and the integrated hydraulic preload adjuster. LED Voltmeter installed inside the dash for monitoring charging. Duc 999 radial m/c for brake and clutch. EBC 320mm brake discs
    NWS hugger. Equipment: Famsa tankbag,
    CBR 600 -07 MOSFET R&R FH008EE providing stable 14.4 - 14.5 V (with my wiring mod). Daytona heated grips with mccoi pwm controller and automatic chain oiler

  9. #114
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    Let's see if anyone's paying attention to this thread (which I read straight through, looking for a solution to my problem). Hope to get some recommendations for next steps.

    2003 Tuono, 20,000 miles, electromechanically bone stock except for mod to integrate the rear turn signals into the tail section, powerlet plug, and SAE plug for battery charger.

    Never had any problems. Out for a ride one day, stopped for a burger, went back out, and wouldn't start. Got it home and have it on the lift. Here are initial symptons:
    Turn on key: lights come on, tach cycles, fuel pump primes.
    Press starter button: Starter spins, and motor spins easily. No fire.

    Here's a list of items checked.
    Battery is good (load test good).
    Kill switch is "out."
    Fuses are all good (unless I'm missing something), including all those on right side of instrument panel/fairing and the two 30As under the seat.
    Tilt sensor is right side up.
    Plugging in the error code wires gives a "fault" of +1.
    No corrosion observed anywhere.

    I will keep on checking items. Haven't pulled the gas tank off yet. Thanks in advance for any recommendations for next steps.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Chris
    KLR650 WeeStrom ST1300 R1200GSA
    2003 Tuono

  10. #115
    apriliaforum expert SoulDaddy's Avatar
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    Would check to see if you have fuel flowing. Fuel pump lines inside the tank are known to fail.

  11. #116
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    Thanks! I'm about to take the tank off. I figure since it's 16 years old, I ought to replace the fuel filter.
    Chris
    KLR650 WeeStrom ST1300 R1200GSA
    2003 Tuono

  12. #117
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    Found (at least part of) the problem. Pulled tank and pump, and sure 'nuff, hose had disconnected from filter. Must've been some spirited riding!
    I have filter on order. Probably should replace that bit of hose too, ya reckon?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Chris
    KLR650 WeeStrom ST1300 R1200GSA
    2003 Tuono

  13. #118
    apriliaforum expert kzmille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krishl View Post
    ...Plugging in the error code wires gives a "fault" of +1...
    Just so you know, +1 is not a fault code. All fault codes are 2 digits. When no faults are detected the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) reading is displayed. 0, and +1 are normal readings. -1 means adjustments are needed.
    This is America. Use your turn signals or WE WILL KILL YOU

  14. #119
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    Yep, that’s why I used the quotes.
    Chris
    KLR650 WeeStrom ST1300 R1200GSA
    2003 Tuono

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