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Thread: ECU and dashboard , EFI fault code communication

  1. #1
    apriliaforum Member falconiforme's Avatar
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    Cool ECU and dashboard , EFI fault code communication

    Hi everyone!


    I plan to throw out the OEM dashboard, and put some Koso instead.
    The only issue is the fault codes that have to be handled from ECU.

    Grounding V/Bi wire (Dash-18) (ECU-19) turns the diagnostic mode on (test connectors).

    And the Bi/Vi wire (Dash-11) (ECU-17) is used for dash and ecu communication.
    Does anyone knows the " electronic protocol " using for EFI fault codes?


    Thanks
    Michal

  2. #2
    apriliaforum expert ghostrider71's Avatar
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    Gabro might know this info....
    Since it was highly recommended, I put THEGEEK on ignore and the forum IS a much nicer place!!

  3. #3
    apriliaforum expert D-Rider's Avatar
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    An easy solution might be to keep the standard dash to use as a diagnostics monitor - just plug it in when you want to check your diagnostic info.

    Of course if you are really lucky, your new dash may happen to support the Aprilia diagnostics - then this won't be necessary ....

  4. #4
    apriliaforum Member falconiforme's Avatar
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    http://www.superbiketoystore.com/spo...prod_4561.html
    http://cgi.ebay.pl/STRUMENTAZIONE-DI...item2557872a7d

    I don't think that Koso has any manufacture diagnostics support.
    I want to keep the functionality on the bike.
    To analyse the signal I bought oscilloscope PoScope Basic2 http://www.quasarelectronics.com/poscope.htm - and it is on the way. I bought it for about 67 Euro shipped.
    But maybe someone did the full conversion, and have the full diagnostics functionality?
    Last edited by falconiforme; 04-12-2010 at 12:00 PM.

  5. #5
    apriliaforum expert vonDutch's Avatar
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    Very interesting. In time, I want to run a bike without the original dash as well. Too bad one has only one life, and so many things to do. I nearly finished the engine and after that the frame will be the next concern. After that its the electronics turn...

    There is a guy Norzilla who made his own bike as well. He tried it to run without the original dash as well, got into trouble and went another path. I don't know what information he gathered. http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...d.php?t=190786

    Then there is Mookiedog, http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=84713 I have emailed him, and replied in that thread, but he does not answer. Don't know if he want to share any information.

    Plz, keep us informed. I am very interested, and would like to help wherever I can.

    *edit*
    That scope seems like a nice little gadget excellent for home use and the things you want to know. I've been looking for a scope in China, but this one is even cheaper. Give a shout when you've tried it. I'll be ordering one soon as well.

  6. #6
    apriliaforum expert Lttlcheeze's Avatar
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    It may sound oblivious, but did you try asking Koso?

    They may be able to answer your question with just your explanation above and a wiring diagram.
    '03 Falco Bought New on 4/6/07:
    Custom paint, Powder Coated RSV Swing arm, RSV Shock, Anodized Rear Sets, Ti Hardware, Anodized (Blue) Fork Caps, SL Carbon Cans, SL Carbon Chip, Custom Airbox w/ K&N Filter, Evo Clutch Slave Cyl., CF Front Sprocket Cover, Rear Hugger, & Chain Guard, GP Shifter, Tuono Rear Brake Master Cly., Evo Clutch Slave Cly., Evo Fender Eliminator, RSVR Mirrors (custom mounts), Custom Blue Dash, HID Headlight, Smoked Tail Light Lens, Integrated Turn Signals into Taillight, LEDs in Headlight & Taillight, LEDs Thru-out, SuperSprox +2 Rear Sprocket, Ariete Grips... (i'm sure there is more)

    Bill

  7. #7
    apriliaforum Junkie mookiedog's Avatar
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    It is my belief that the ECU 'WL' output is designed to directly control the 'EFI' indicator on the stock dash. The ECU generates the timing info to make the 'EFI' blink. You could probably just hook the WL wire to a low-power LED (and current limit resistor) and it would flash just like the EFI light. If you are interested, I will check if that is possible.

    It is still a pain in the neck to decode flashing EFI lights though. What I did was get my ultraMod board to just log all diag events so that they are permanent in my SD card memory. That means that I don't have to connect the diag connector. The other good part about being able to log the diag events is that I can log the transient events, too. The ECU will sometimes notice that a sensor is not acting perfectly once in a while. Those transient failures will only cause a hard diag failure if they fail many times in a row. I log both kinds of failures just in case it helps see a sensor start to fail.

  8. #8
    apriliaforum Member falconiforme's Avatar
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    From;
    Koso Pascal <NOSPAM@kosonorthamerica.com>
    To: Michal Rybicki <NOSPAM>
    Date: 13 kwietnia 2010 22:10
    Subject: Re: Koso and fault code diagnostic functionality.


    Hello Sir,


    All our gauges are ''universal'' so they don't work with specific models of bikes. Unfortunately, the error code won't show on our gauges.

    Best regards
    Team Koso


    So I will post only if I gather more information from the Falco!
    Be patient

  9. #9
    apriliaforum Member falconiforme's Avatar
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    Talking Small update

    I attached sample from oscilloscope recorder.

    I have other records like:
    14 - Intake pressure sensor
    15 - TPS
    22 - air thermistor
    41 - fall sensor
    But only after repeated tests i will attach more results.

    Records like Intake pressure sensor 13 and Coolant temperature sensor 21 and maybe 33-36 should be easy.
    I have to check the wiring diagram and nominal values for the rest of the sensors.

    Wasze zdrowie
    ________________________
    11 Camshaft position sensor
    12 Crankshaft position sensor
    13 Intake pressure sensor

    14 Intake pressure sensor

    15 Throttle position sensor
    21 Coolant temperature sensor
    22 Air temperature sensor
    23 Atmospheric pressure sensor (inside ECU)

    33 Ignition coil 1, Front cylinder
    34 Ignition coil 2, Front cylinder
    33,34 Ignition coils 1 and 2, Front cylinder

    35 Ignition coil 1, Rear cylinder

    36 Ignition coil 2, Rear cylinder

    35,36 Ignition coils 1 and 2, Rear cylinder
    41 Fall Sensor (tip-over sensor)

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DIAG_MODE.jpg 
Views:	433 
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ID:	133470  

    Last edited by falconiforme; 04-24-2010 at 06:48 AM. Reason: emstake
    Torque is for wise people

  10. #10
    apriliaforum expert vonDutch's Avatar
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    Did you use the scope you described a couple of posts up?

  11. #11
    apriliaforum Member falconiforme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vonDutch View Post
    Did you use the scope you described a couple of posts up?
    Yes.
    Exactly this is the one : PoScope Basic 2
    http://www.shop.kristech.eu/product_...roducts_id=123


    To be exact I ordered also two oscilloscope probes (about 18,5 Euro):attenuation : 1/10:

    • bandwidth : 100MHz


    • rise time: 3,5ns


    • input resistance: 10M


    • input capacitance: 20pF


    • max working voltage: 400V

    attenuation : 1/1:

    • bandwidth : 6MHz


    • rise time: 58ns


    • input resistance: 1M


    • input capacitance: 47pF


    • max working voltage: 400V



    Oryginal PoProbe60 is little different. And I do not know is it important.
    http://microcontrollershop.com/produ...b1d192f83e6ef5


    • 10:1 Bandwidth: DC ~40 MHz (1 dB), DC ~60 MHz (3 dB)
    • 1:1 Bandwidth: DC ~3 MHz (1 dB), DC ~6 MHz (3 dB)
    • Input R 10:1 = 10M Ohm = 22pF
    • Input R 1:1 = 1M Ohm = 180pF
    • Input C: at Oscilloscope Input 20pF
    • ATT Ratio: 1/10 ; 1/1
    • MAX Input Voltage: DC 600V



    Last edited by falconiforme; 04-21-2010 at 08:11 AM. Reason: update
    Torque is for wise people

  12. #12
    apriliaforum expert vonDutch's Avatar
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    Thx. I have been reading quite some good things about it. Also on YouTube are a few comparisons. I've ordered one

  13. #13
    apriliaforum expert Lttlcheeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by falconiforme View Post
    I attached sample from oscilloscope recorder.

    I have other records like:
    14 - fall_sensor
    15 - TPS
    22 - air thermistor
    41 - fall sensor
    But only after repeated tests i will attach more results.

    Records like Intake pressure sensor 13 and Coolant temperature sensor 21 and maybe 33-36 should be easy.
    I have to check the wiring diagram and nominal values for the rest of the sensors.

    Wasze zdrowie
    ________________________
    11 Camshaft position sensor
    12 Crankshaft position sensor
    13 Intake pressure sensor

    14 Intake pressure sensor

    15 Throttle position sensor
    21 Coolant temperature sensor
    22 Air temperature sensor
    23 Atmospheric pressure sensor (inside ECU)

    33 Ignition coil 1, Front cylinder
    34 Ignition coil 2, Front cylinder
    33,34 Ignition coils 1 and 2, Front cylinder

    35 Ignition coil 1, Rear cylinder

    36 Ignition coil 2, Rear cylinder

    35,36 Ignition coils 1 and 2, Rear cylinder
    41 Fall Sensor (tip-over sensor)

    In your first list you have 14 & 41 both as the Tip Over Sensor, I assume that was just a typo, and 14 was supposed to be the Intake Pressure Sensor like your second list says?

    This is well out of my knowledge of electronics, so please bear with my ignorance...

    Is the graph you pictured what your Oscilloscope Recorder gives you? Then you would have to interpret it and figure out what fault codes you have?

    Is this where you were trying to get, or do you plan on having something (a program) interpret the graph for you and just tell you exactly what codes you have?
    '03 Falco Bought New on 4/6/07:
    Custom paint, Powder Coated RSV Swing arm, RSV Shock, Anodized Rear Sets, Ti Hardware, Anodized (Blue) Fork Caps, SL Carbon Cans, SL Carbon Chip, Custom Airbox w/ K&N Filter, Evo Clutch Slave Cyl., CF Front Sprocket Cover, Rear Hugger, & Chain Guard, GP Shifter, Tuono Rear Brake Master Cly., Evo Clutch Slave Cly., Evo Fender Eliminator, RSVR Mirrors (custom mounts), Custom Blue Dash, HID Headlight, Smoked Tail Light Lens, Integrated Turn Signals into Taillight, LEDs in Headlight & Taillight, LEDs Thru-out, SuperSprox +2 Rear Sprocket, Ariete Grips... (i'm sure there is more)

    Bill

  14. #14
    apriliaforum Member falconiforme's Avatar
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    Thanks that you noticed my typo.

    The graph is the direct output (recording) from Oscilloscope.
    While recording Oscilloscope shows "live" the gathered data on Laptop.
    And yes I need to interpret what it suppose to be understood by dashboard.
    Diag 1,0,-1 is not a problem, it is worse when it comes to fault codes.

    First I need to analyse ECU words. In computer world it would be 0,1 strings (only two states is used).
    Charts shows that ECU uses also 2 states ( 0V and 5V) and the position in time each state plays the key role.

    After analysis I need to program some uC chip like Atmega8 or Atmega16 that will be interpreting ECU signal, and shows the output.
    Simple Output is 6 diodes, or LED display

    Cheers


    EDIT:
    I changed my results. My IBM Lenovo T60 laptop had horrible signal noise when I used left USB for Oscilloscope. Now results are very clear.
    Last edited by falconiforme; 04-24-2010 at 07:01 AM. Reason: error
    Torque is for wise people

  15. #15
    apriliaforum expert vonDutch's Avatar
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    Btw, I read from the thread from Norzilla that he was not able to get the bike running without the OEM dashboard... He must have been using the new model engine, cuz I just tried to fire up the engine without the dash attached, and it came to life without any problems.

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