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Thread: sportcity suspension upgrades?

  1. #16
    apriliaforum Junkie SubSeven75's Avatar
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    Well from my experiance the chinese made shocks for my other scooter cost about $200 for both front and rear, and the only adjustments you can make are preload. They also last about 1/4 as long as the bitubos, which cost $360 for front and rears, and are pretty adjustable. Not only a far superiour shock, but also cheaper in the long run too.


    Im just looking at bitubos website, and they do make a fork kit for scooters. I know for a fact they make one for the Scarebeo 125,150 and 200, scooters. Maybe the Sportcity's terrible sus can be saved afterall. email is pending...

    Last edited by SubSeven75; 11-16-2008 at 05:11 PM.

  2. #17
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    I understand ya seven Ohlins and Showa Made some of the Ft ends of the Beo over the years and theyre stamped as such ive the locations from the aprilia parts manual covering all countries in one book during its production the 150 -250 thru 06 got some nice parts too bad the SC came along too late,i raced carts as a kid so i knida like my beo's almost non exsistant suspension.just enough to almost get ya in trouble

  3. #18
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    Talking

    Have to agree that the suspension on the SC250 is pretty woeful.

    The front in particular is terrible and displays the typical problems associated with damping rod forks...way too soft on low speed damping and way too hard on high speed damping. The thing wallows going into a corner under brakes which means it is too soft but feels rock hard when you hit a bump at speed.

    Springs alone will not solve this problem. Sportsbikes use a cratridge type fork to allow better controlled damping and fine tuning of the suspension. Granted the volume and viscosity of the fork oil also has a part to play in this.

    One good economical fix for the damping rod fork is fitting a cartridge emulator. RaceTech who produce 'Gold Valve' kits for sportsbikes produce these but of course have none listed for scooters ( RaceTech). It would take dismantling the forks and sending them the measurements to see if they have a suitable cartridge emulator to fit the SC250. Hmmm...there's a little winter project!

    The bitubo fork kit mentioned by SubSeven above is the ultimate solution. The Bitubo kit supplies new springs as well as a damping cartrdge to replace the damping rod. Any news on that? The Bitubo site does not list a fork kit for the SC250. They do have one for a Leonardo 250 so it may need some looking up of the Aprilia part numbers to see if the Sportcity shares forks with any of the other models.

    Now as for the rear, again low spec shocks with progressive springs are the cause for the pogo effect. The damper can't deal with the job especially two up. Here's the solution for that...



    Bitubo Rear Shocks listed on Carpimoto

    At the end of the day I guess we have to accept that the SC250 is only a scooter. It was designed to get you from A to B in the city with minimum fuss and least cost. Are we expecting too much of it, wanting it to handle like a sportsbike? I know I am.
    Last edited by Kneedown19; 02-10-2009 at 07:34 PM. Reason: Typo
    1991 Yamaha TZR250R - Smoker
    2005 Yamaha YZF-R1 - Racer
    2007 Aprilia SportCity 250ie - Commuter

  4. #19
    apriliaforum expert Xanthos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneedown19 View Post
    At the end of the day I guess we have to accept that the SC250 is only a scooter. It was designed to get you from A to B in the city with minimum fuss and least cost. Are we expecting too much of it, wanting it to handle like a sportsbike? I know I am.
    A completely different frame would be needed to make bike like handling. The U shape frame ´got some limitations.
    2007 Aprilia SportCity 250
    2009 Honda CBF 600 SA ABS
    Ford Mondeo 1,8 (for Winther purpose)

  5. #20
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    Not really expecting to make it handle like a sportbike....just a little better than what it does. if that's possible wihtout breaking the bank

  6. #21
    apriliaforum expert Xanthos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the DOOD View Post
    Not really expecting to make it handle like a sportbike....just a little better than what it does. if that's possible wihtout breaking the bank
    You "kind of" have to break the bank to get those parts.
    In my summer vacation I was - among other places - in Spain, France and Italy, and believe me, you'll see scooters in Euro modded with forks, breaks and suspensions more expensive than the whole bike. Many MC riders would be jealous of those parts!

    (renting scooters in Euro are pretty cheap though. In Italy I rented a Peugeot 400cc scooter for one day, next day a Honda SH 300 abs for one day. After riding the SH I was hooked, I can never go back to my sc with the same satisfaction. All the magazine reviews 'bout the SH is correct, this scooter is the Porsche 911 among scooters. 'nuff said)
    2007 Aprilia SportCity 250
    2009 Honda CBF 600 SA ABS
    Ford Mondeo 1,8 (for Winther purpose)

  7. #22
    apriliaforum Junkie SubSeven75's Avatar
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    Id still like to hear from anyone who has purchased the Malossi shocks for the Sportcity, and what they think of them.

    I've emailed Bitubo a few times and have never heard anything from them.

    I beleive AF1 now list the fork manufacterer on thier parts diagram pages, so it might be possible to email the fork makers to see if they are shared among other models or not.

  8. #23
    apriliaforum expert Xanthos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubSeven75 View Post
    Id still like to hear from anyone who has purchased the Malossi shocks for the Sportcity, and what they think of them.

    I've emailed Bitubo a few times and have never heard anything from them.

    I beleive AF1 now list the fork manufacterer on thier parts diagram pages, so it might be possible to email the fork makers to see if they are shared among other models or not.
    checked Malossi shocks on modern vespa

    the malossi shocks are rebranded Paoli. They are spendy but very nice. The spring rate tends to be a little on the light side but they are good with a light bike and rider.

    The Bitubo has a stiffer spring but may be better for two up.

    more
    http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/topic31604
    2007 Aprilia SportCity 250
    2009 Honda CBF 600 SA ABS
    Ford Mondeo 1,8 (for Winther purpose)

  9. #24
    apriliaforum expert Xanthos's Avatar
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    regarding bitubo (this is for a vespa - but can give a rough idea)

    I can only speak for the bitubo vs stock. If half your riding is on lumpy roads, stick with the stock over bitubo. While the bitubo will give you a sporty feel on the road, it is definatly more brutal when the going gets rough, to the point of less tire to road contact. I've ridden both side by side as my GF's LX is still stock in that regard. as a bonus you can likely pick up the stock one second hand from someone who has gone and installed bitubo.
    2007 Aprilia SportCity 250
    2009 Honda CBF 600 SA ABS
    Ford Mondeo 1,8 (for Winther purpose)

  10. #25
    apriliaforum expert Xanthos's Avatar
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    @ SubSeven: I think we can soon draw a conclusion - leave the scooter as it is, (don't even change the air filter). Those engineers at Piaggio has done a great job setting up the scoot. Buying very expensive bakes, shocks, forks will only give minor changes. I even saw on a euro board that putting 2 gram lighter rollers in the stock vario will give performance close to costa (you'll get 80 % costa performance just by changing rollers!! )


    oc we modders don't care - we'll pay a LOT just to get that 5 - 10 % difference

    The only mod witch gives a lot of bang-for-the-buck is a performance vario (imho)

    Last edited by Xanthos; 02-11-2009 at 05:31 PM.
    2007 Aprilia SportCity 250
    2009 Honda CBF 600 SA ABS
    Ford Mondeo 1,8 (for Winther purpose)

  11. #26
    apriliaforum expert williamr's Avatar
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    There's nothing that you can do to make a scooter handle like a bike, even if you build a new frame.

    The combined engine/transmission puts too much weight at the rear to allow proper balance, and using it as the swinging arm means that there is massive unsprung weight, which severley compromises the suspension however much you spend on state of the art shocks.

    Rob

  12. #27
    apriliaforum Junkie SubSeven75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthos View Post
    @ SubSeven: I think we can soon draw a conclusion - leave the scooter as it is, (don't even change the air filter). Those engineers at Piaggio has done a great job setting up the scoot. Buying very expensive bakes, shocks, forks will only give minor changes. I even saw on a euro board that putting 2 gram lighter rollers in the stock vario will give performance close to costa (you'll get 80 % costa performance just by changing rollers!! )


    oc we modders don't care - we'll pay a LOT just to get that 5 - 10 % difference

    The only mod witch gives a lot of bang-for-the-buck is a performance vario (imho)

    I thouroghly disagree. I quit going to MV becuase the majority of those people have no clue. Plus if you debate anything they say, the nazi mods will come in and ban you or delete your post. I have seen dyno's of lighter rollers compared to Costa. Not even freaking close! Not even 30% close. Just because somebody on the internet says its 80%doesnt mean its so. I have ridden a bike with Bitubos on the front and rear. I have ridden same bike with sebacs front and rear. I have ridden the same bike with Indian knockoff shocks. The bitubos are far and away the best by leaps and bounds over anything else for that particular model(Vespa PX). The sebacs were not as good as the bitubos but better than the Indian knockoffs. Have heard such horrible things about the chinese shocks that i have no interest in even trying them.

    So saying that there isnt much of a differance is true, but that doesnt mean that you dont get any benifit from performance parts. It just that performance parts are usually priced pretty high compared to what they do. $1200 pipes for a liter bike, might give you 6-7hp for example.

    And saying that there is nothing you can do to make a scooter handle like a bike is true.But it doesnt mean that there are not things/parts you can do or buy that wont make it handle better. I bet ya that there are 0 racers out there racing their scooters that dont have blinged out suspensions and a tons of performance mods unless they are running in a stock class or something that prohibits any mods.

    Also for $200 the DR pully Hit clutch packs a pretty big punch as well. Just depends on how you tune it.
    Last edited by SubSeven75; 02-12-2009 at 03:08 PM.

  13. #28
    apriliaforum expert Xanthos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubSeven75 View Post
    I thouroghly disagree. I quit going to MV becuase the majority of those people have no clue. Plus if you debate anything they say, the nazi mods will come in and ban you or delete your post. I have seen dyno's of lighter rollers compared to Costa. Not even freaking close! Not even 30% close. Just because somebody on the internet says its 80%doesnt mean its so. I have ridden a bike with Bitubos on the front and rear. I have ridden same bike with sebacs front and rear. I have ridden the same bike with Indian knockoff shocks. The bitubos are far and away the best by leaps and bounds over anything else for that particular model(Vespa PX). The sebacs were not as good as the bitubos but better than the Indian knockoffs. Have heard such horrible things about the chinese shocks that i have no interest in even trying them.

    So saying that there isnt much of a differance is true, but that doesnt mean that you dont get any benifit from performance parts. It just that performance parts are usually priced pretty high compared to what they do. $1200 pipes for a liter bike, might give you 6-7hp for example.

    And saying that there is nothing you can do to make a scooter handle like a bike is true.But it doesnt mean that there are not things/parts you can do or buy that wont make it handle better. I bet ya that there are 0 racers out there racing their scooters that dont have blinged out suspensions and a tons of performance mods unless they are running in a stock class or something that prohibits any mods.

    Also for $200 the DR pully Hit clutch packs a pretty big punch as well. Just depends on how you tune it.

    If that's enough to ban me, then I'll voluntary leave the board
    2007 Aprilia SportCity 250
    2009 Honda CBF 600 SA ABS
    Ford Mondeo 1,8 (for Winther purpose)

  14. #29
    apriliaforum Junkie SubSeven75's Avatar
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    Which is precisly why I dont go over there much anymore. That and I got tired of all the BS "polini is better than Costa" d-bags that had 0 facts to back anything up. Funny how all of them switched back to the Costa though...

  15. #30
    apriliaforum expert williamr's Avatar
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    Sub7 - if you've dyno curves showing significant differences from changing the variator something is very wrong. The dyno measures the power at the rear wheel - and because the variator alters the gearing as the revs rise it tends to be a very flat curve showing power referenced to road speed. To get a more conventional power/revs curve you need to fix the variator, in which case it has no effect at all on the curve..

    Changing ther variator alters the power delivery, and the dyno compensates for that. It doesn't alter the amount of power, so any real difference in dyno curves is down to operator error. Any difference in actual maximum power is simply wrong.

    Your post demonstrates woeful ignorance of engineering principals.

    I do appreciate the attraction of modding any machine, but the cost/benefit curve for a small scoot isn't very great. If mods are what turn you on to the extent of spending a lot of time and money, it's probably better to pick a base vehicle that offers a lot more scope for real change.

    Rob

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