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Thread: play in rear wheel!!!

  1. #1
    apriliaforum expert 01Futuraman's Avatar
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    play in rear wheel!!!



    OK here's the deal, I was just checking my bike as a general inspection and when I pushed on the rear wheel I could feel it move in and out a little in certain positions as I rotated it

    here's the thing though, the 3 spots are lined up and on the 3 pegs

    I had a new set of tires put on about 4 months ago right before I moved to Germany

    the guy that did it does good work though and he's done work on all my bikes and I've never had a problem

    I gave him the manual and he followed it so I don't know what to make of it

    I feel pretty sure it's not supposed to have any play in it at all though

    I've rotated tires on my vehicles before and know if they aren't seated properly they can have a bit of play or if a lug nut isn't torqued right they can have a bit of play

    I also know it's extremely dangerous and will only get worse if ridden

    what do you make of it?

    btw, how do you get the dang center cap off the rear wheel?

    there is no tool in the tool kit to take it off

    I'm guessing this is because they suggest you have the wheels worked on by an Aprilia dealer and they didn't want to put a tool in the kit to help someone work on it without taking it in

    are there multiple nuts to tighten down like on a car wheel or is there just one main nut or center that tightens the entire wheel down?

    I'm as pissed as I am concerned because I had planned to go ride tomorrow, but obviously now that's not a good idea

    this is something that I need to tend to immediately and not let go

    thanks for any input
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  2. #2
    apriliaforum expert commandodave's Avatar
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    You may or may not be totally screwed. Is the free play sideways, or parallel to the wheel rotation? It also depends on how soon you catch it. Okay, you use a pin wrench to remove the dyst cover. If you do not have one, use a suitably sized drift. Insert it in the hole facing the "off: direction, then LIGHTLY tap the end with a hammer. Once it move a quarter inch or so it should be free to rotate with finger pressure. Remove the rear wheel and check the mounting holes for roundness. If they are oval, you are well and truly screwed. Also check the mating surface for a plateau. The surface should be flat. If there is a raised section it is because the depressed area has been worn away by the wheel movement. A small raised area can be filed flat. If there is a significant difference between the raised and depressed areas, you are merely screwed. File the raised area flat and fabricate a shim to take up the metal thickness you have filed away. Do a search for a "loose rear wheel" thread started by me and see what happened. I was just about the first peerson who had this happen to him, so the problem progressed until it became very obvious. Beginning about post #45 is my writeup of how to patch the wheel with JB weld. The "temporary" repair lasted for 5000 miles before I bought a used wheel. It may have lasted for another 5000 miles as there was no sign of the repair becoming undone.

    And remember the torque specs:
    REALLY FUCKING TIGHT
    I now use an old fork tube for the added leverage when tightening the rear wheel.

    Dave

  3. #3
    apriliaforum expert 01Futuraman's Avatar
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    when I press on the wheel I can make it move slightly left to right, but only at a certain point in the rotation

    basically I just know it's not supposed to move AT ALL so as soon as I felt it move a slight bit I knew something was off

    it will also make a slight noise when moved, a little thump thump

    I think and hope it could simply be that it's not tight enough, let's hope that's the case anyway

    I know it's on the 3 pis because you can see it sitting on them

    I don't know though if I have anything to get the cover off

    I guess I can try using something to put in one of the holes and tapping that tool until it starts to move, hopefully it does

    I'll try to check tomorrow and report what I find

    all I know is wheels are not supposed to move side to side, only forward
    Mods:rectifier replacement, soldered wires, derestricted airbox, QDC replacement with metal one, capped holes on fuel plate, basically just the standard stuff we have to do to be safe and keep them running well
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  4. #4
    apriliaforum expert 01Futuraman's Avatar
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    what actually holds the wheel on?

    is it just one nut or multiple ones?

    is there anywhere I can see a diagram of the rear wheel assembly?

    somehow my owners manual did not make it to Germany with me

    thanks
    Mods:rectifier replacement, soldered wires, derestricted airbox, QDC replacement with metal one, capped holes on fuel plate, basically just the standard stuff we have to do to be safe and keep them running well
    Road: 01 Aprilia Futura
    Track: 05 Triumph Daytona 650
    Dirt: 06 Honda CRF230F

  5. #5
    apriliaforum expert The Fixer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01Futuraman View Post
    are there multiple nuts to tighten down like on a car wheel or is there just one main nut or center that tightens the entire wheel down?
    Just the one big bastard. Get that manual that you loaned the mechanic and have a look. It spells it out pretty well with illustrations. The AF1 sight has an exploded view online where you buy parts. Make all the parts are installed and your torqued down. Hate to think it's the bearing. Someone here got excees play out by removing those 3 litle locking allens (on the chain side) and torqueing that larger allen to spec. Can't remember exactly though. Maybe someone that has done it will chime in here.
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  6. #6
    apriliaforum expert The Fixer's Avatar
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    HEre...

    http://www.af1racing.com/store/Scrip...idCategory=517

    Number 10 holds the wheel on..
    You can remove #5 with a needle nose pliers, but you'll scratch it.
    Remove #8 with a snap ring circlip pliers or a couple o picks.
    ďThe roadís what counts...donít worry about where itís goiní."
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    "When I'm riding my motorcycle, I'm glad to be alive. When I stop riding my motorcycle, I'm glad to be alive."
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  7. #7
    apriliaforum Member nmexdane's Avatar
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    For what it is worth...

    I had a thread going on this one too. Retightening works for a period of time. How much depends on how messed up the holes are. I first recommend tightening and then going for a ride and seeing how long until it loosens up.

    My current "solution" (ahem, ahem) was to buy some silicon caulking (the type used on fish tanks that stays quite flexible after curing), putting some in each of the three holes and reassembling. After about 3,000 miles (with some hard riding) the wheel is still tight. There are some bets that I will not be able to get the damned thing off when I need to but, we will see. (I think all I have to do is approach the bike with a hammer and she will spit the wheel off). I am counting on the relatively softness of the silicon to help me out when that time comes.

    Assuming that I am able to remove it, my permanent solution will be to send it to Bob Davis and get the holes drilled and inserts installed (maybe difficult from Germany but, surely someone can do the same there). His price is excellent and it is one of those fixes that is actually better than a new wheel, as we will then have steel pins in a steel insert rather than steel in aluminum.

    I was a little desperate with my silicon fix as I only had two days before heading out on a pretty long trip through Colorado and Utah but, my theory is that what was needed was actually a soft, conforming material that could fill the gap, and dampen the vibration and motion. Stopping the "micro motion" stops the process that leads to eventual loosening of the main nut. At least that was my insight after a few beers.

    Sorry I can't give you definitive test results. Again, about 3K and still working great.

    One sort of obvious warning: do not get the silicon caulk that cures to a high hardness. If this crazy idea actually works it is because the material is soft.
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  8. #8
    apriliaforum expert Befbever's Avatar
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    In my experience torqueing it to spec is the cause of the wheel coming loose. Had it happen on 2 Futs here. Manual says 170 Nm, I use 200 Nm. My dealer uses even more.


    No wheels were harmed in the process.

    Oh and I use an allen key to get the dustcap off. Check the AF1 store to check if they have any of my dustcaps left.
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  9. #9
    apriliaforum expert 01Futuraman's Avatar
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    thanks for all the input, I'm going to dig into it today and see what's wrong if anything and if I can fix it with my limited tools]

    basically it sounds like the biggest problem is Aprilia suggestion a torque spec that is way too low

    I have a history of over-tightening things, maybe it will come in handy this time
    Mods:rectifier replacement, soldered wires, derestricted airbox, QDC replacement with metal one, capped holes on fuel plate, basically just the standard stuff we have to do to be safe and keep them running well
    Road: 01 Aprilia Futura
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  10. #10
    apriliaforum expert SpitfireTriple's Avatar
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    Commandodave suggests that, if you do not have the special tool, you should use a drift to remove the wheel nut cover. This is sound advice, though you need to be aware that if you use a steel drift you will probably scratch the cover. Lucky you if you have an aluminium or brass drift in your tool-box.

    Personally, I don't believe that the problem is down to Aprilia specifying a too-low torque; I believe the problem is poor design. But I've put forward this argument before and was outnumbered. http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...57#post1778257

    Ultimately, I believe I will need to go the Bob Davies route. My recent trip to Turkey was lent additional spice by fears of what might happen if I needed to get a rear tyre changed en route. This time I was lucky.
    Last edited by SpitfireTriple; 11-04-2008 at 11:24 AM.

  11. #11
    apriliaforum expert Pat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Befbever View Post
    In my experience torqueing it to spec is the cause of the wheel coming loose. Had it happen on 2 Futs here. Manual says 170 Nm, I use 200 Nm. My dealer uses even more.


    No wheels were harmed in the process.

    Oh and I use an allen key to get the dustcap off. Check the AF1 store to check if they have any of my dustcaps left.
    Good advice. Mine came loose in Belgium this year after being torqued to the correct setting when having tyres fitted a couple of months before.

    Got it to a bike shop (because I didn't have a ratchet with me) and mimed the action for 'Can you do this up f*cking tight please?' and they duly obliged.

    Did it up as tight as it would go and it hasn't come loose since. Mind you, I don't know if it'll ever come off again....

    However, I didn't know everyone else has been doing it to 200Nm!

  12. #12
    apriliaforum expert Powerful Pierre's Avatar
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    The cap shouldn't be tight as it only seats on an O ring......I use a piece of hardwood dowel to tap it free then its fingerwork from there.....its been off many, many times and there's not a mark on it, but then again I've never let anyone else take the rear wheel out.

    Don't jump to the conclusion that its the wheel loose as it could be the other side making the stub axle loose.....not an uncommon occurence.

    I'd suggest that you take the wheel out, check for any damage and if all looks OK correctly re-assemble and torque.....I've stuck to the 170Nm and never had a problem but if you want to go harder that's your choice.

    After that if you've still got play its time to check out the other side.....remove the 3 small allen screws (noting where the longer one is located) and check the torque on the centre 'axle fastening screw'.....it should be 150Nm.

    If that is OK but there's still play then I'm afraid its time to delve a little deeper......remove the stub axle and check the king and needle roller bearing and also for signs of damage to the axle if the bearing has spun.

    What about the swingarm bearings? If, when you tug back & forth on the wheel, can you see any play at the swing arm pivot?

    You should be able to source a manual via this site.....doesn't Bob Davies carry one?

    Whatever you do take your time and inspect methodically & carefully.....worse thing you could do is jump in feet first and make what may hopefully turn out to be a simple problem, worse.

    Good luck!

  13. #13
    apriliaforum expert 01Futuraman's Avatar
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    I have no idea what a drift is, but I think I can figure a way to get the dust cap off. Heck if I can't get it off I certainly don't need to be messing with the wheel.

    I got a download of the Futura manual last night and is has specific instructions about how to remove and reinstall the rear wheel, hopefully I can follow them.

    Here's my curiosity though, it only wobbles at certain points in a rotation, not all the time. I can see it move though when I press on it and hear it too. It doesn't move a lot, but obviously any movement is too much.

    Anyway, I'll get into it tonight or tomorrow and see how it goes. My tools and other supplies are a bit limited seeing as how I'm in Germany now and didn't bring everything I'd have at my disposal if I were at home, couldn't bring everything, didn't want to.
    Mods:rectifier replacement, soldered wires, derestricted airbox, QDC replacement with metal one, capped holes on fuel plate, basically just the standard stuff we have to do to be safe and keep them running well
    Road: 01 Aprilia Futura
    Track: 05 Triumph Daytona 650
    Dirt: 06 Honda CRF230F

  14. #14
    apriliaforum expert RAS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerful Pierre View Post
    The cap shouldn't be tight as it only seats on an O ring......I use a piece of hardwood dowel to tap it free then its fingerwork from there.....its been off many, many times and there's not a mark on it, but then again I've never let anyone else take the rear wheel out.

    Don't jump to the conclusion that its the wheel loose as it could be the other side making the stub axle loose.....not an uncommon occurence.

    I'd suggest that you take the wheel out, check for any damage and if all looks OK correctly re-assemble and torque.....I've stuck to the 170Nm and never had a problem but if you want to go harder that's your choice.

    After that if you've still got play its time to check out the other side.....remove the 3 small allen screws (noting where the longer one is located) and check the torque on the centre 'axle fastening screw'.....it should be 150Nm.

    If that is OK but there's still play then I'm afraid its time to delve a little deeper......remove the stub axle and check the king and needle roller bearing and also for signs of damage to the axle if the bearing has spun.

    What about the swingarm bearings? If, when you tug back & forth on the wheel, can you see any play at the swing arm pivot?

    You should be able to source a manual via this site.....doesn't Bob Davies carry one?

    Whatever you do take your time and inspect methodically & carefully.....worse thing you could do is jump in feet first and make what may hopefully turn out to be a simple problem, worse.

    Good luck!
    what he said.

  15. #15
    apriliaforum expert SpitfireTriple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01Futuraman View Post
    I have no idea what a drift is, ......


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drift_pin


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