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Thread: SXV Engine specs for Formula SAE use.

  1. #1
    apriliaforum newb
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    SXV Engine specs for Formula SAE use.

    Hey, I am with a Formula SAE team, and had a few questions regarding the SXV 450cc motor.

    Currently we run a Honda CBR600 F4i, but we are looking to replace that with something smaller and lighter. With that in mind, i have a few questions.


    Whats the stock power ratings?
    How much does it weigh?
    Has anyone attempted turbocharging?
    Does anyone here sell just the motors? We will be custom building an intake and exhaust. The engine is also getting retuned - per the rules we have to add a restrictor plate, which destroys the factory tune.

    Thanks
    Last edited by mjn18; 05-05-2007 at 11:11 PM.

  2. #2
    apriliaforum newb
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    Also, specs for the 550cc motor would be fantastic

  3. #3
    apriliaforum Member iStunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjn18
    Hey, I am with a Formula SAE team, and had a few questions regarding the SXV 450cc motor.

    Formula SAE is a collegiate design competion where teams build small, formula 1 style cars based around motors with a displacement of 610cc or less. Currently we run a Honda CBR600 F4i, but we are looking to replace that with something smaller and lighter. With that in mind, i have a few questions.


    Whats the stock power ratings?
    How much does it weigh?
    Has anyone attempted turbocharging?
    Does anyone here sell just the motors? We will be custom building an intake and exhaust. The engine is also getting retuned - per the rules we have to add a restrictor plate, which destroys the factory tune.

    Thanks
    Stock power I believe is, someone correct me if I'm wrong, 60hp and 45 torque. Probably weighs 60lbs and why would you turbo a v-twin?

  4. #4
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    with the restrictor in place, the volumetric effeciency of the motor drops way down. a turbo is one way to counteract that problem. Im not saying that we definetely turbo it, but its a possibility. What will probably end up happening is we run with the naturally aspirated motor for the first year, then add a turbo if we feel that its beneficial.

    turbos are mainly run in this series for a boost on the low rpms. the inline-4s most teams run have no power below 6000rpm, and this is a solution to the problem. the v-twins have more low end power, so maybe turbocharging is not neccesary, we just don't know. A v-twin is a rarity in this series, so theres not a whole lot of prior experience to draw on here.

  5. #5
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    SAE Baja student from University of Michigan checking in here-

    My personal opinion as someone with years and years of small high performance engine experience is that the aprilia engine will not work well for you. Engine availability, parts availability, and limited experience due to the new nature of the engine would rule it out in my book for FSAE use. FSAE cars tend to be unreliable from what I have seen at Michigan and at other schools. The front cylinder is also very low on the aprilia engine, it would be hard to package in an FSAE car IMO.

    I would look into what RMIT used, a YZF450 engine or a CRF450. They are very very small electric start singles that are extremely powerful. The cannondale engines are very cool because they have a vertical cylinder, e start, casette trans, rear exhaust, and front vertical intake.

  6. #6
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    the big debate in SAE is the inline-4s vs the singles. Some teams like the singles for the low end grunt, others stick with the 4s for higher power. We thought of a single, but right now would like to stick with either a twin or a four. given the choice, we would probably stick with the four, add a turbo to increase the low end torque. The Aprilia motors have been mentioned on the SAE forums, and everyone there seemed thrilled with the motors, especially the weight. The main deterrent has been cost. I want to see what the response is here from people who ride the bikes and know the motors better.

    As for the availablity, that really is the prime issue here. I see your point about the relative rarity of the motors. the Honda F4i we have now is dirt cheap to find and purchase.

    thanks for the input
    Last edited by mjn18; 05-06-2007 at 07:33 PM.

  7. #7
    apriliaforum expert duc slayer's Avatar
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    there is at least one team running the ape motor, and they bought one right here from AF1.............But then again they were somewhat local boys
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  8. #8
    apriliaforum prov-nov
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    Doesnt Mahle make a FSAE specific 3 clylinder? Use a turbo single and you can make the entire car low weight because the engine is less powerful than a 4 cylinder. IMO, low end grunt is king for autocrosses with relatively inexperienced drivers (unless you are texas A/M with the grand national kart champ on your team!!!).

  9. #9
    apriliaforum expert cal550b's Avatar
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    i take it it will be run in a race bike setup not supermoto .here is a standard dyno .http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...highlight=dyno
    and have a word with pumpman he is way ahead of the game. http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...ighlight=rs250

  10. #10
    apriliaforum Member twinshocker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Silidker
    ...... Use a turbo single and you can make the entire car low weight because the engine is less powerful than a 4 cylinder. ......
    Isnīt turbocharging a single a real pain in the ass ?

    Some people over here asked as well about using the Aprilia engine in Formula Student cars , but the main problem is that it is a very expensive solution (not many engines around) and nobody knows how competitive and reliable they are.


    Oli

  11. #11
    apriliaforum expert Silver-Bolt's Avatar
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    I believe Aprilia already has a special price for the 550 motors to college progrags. $3500 for the complete motor minus ECU & wiring harness. Can only be sold to the school at that price.

  12. #12
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    3500 for an FSAE team for an engine is HUGE. They normally get engines for a few hundred bucks out of crashed sport bikes.

    As for turboing a single, it can be done. There are some IHI and borg warner turbos that fit in the palm of your hand. I have also heard of people splitting the exhaust into two different length tubes to make the one pulse sortof like two pulses so the compressor wheel keeps turning at low rpm's.

    RMIT found a small supercharger for their YZF450 engine last year at the competitions.

  13. #13
    apriliaforum expert duc slayer's Avatar
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    you can also SC the 600's, not sur if that's something new. But last months CW (?) had a SC'd zx6 that was putting out the same hp as zx10r
    #1 Forum Mod Pisser-Offer

    Some say a comet will fall from the sky. Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves. Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still. Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits. Some say the end is near. Some say we'll see armageddon soon. I certainly hope we will
    I sure could use a vacation from this stupid shit, silly shit, stupid shit... One great big festering neon distraction, I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied. Learn to swim!!!

  14. #14
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    most of the teams that run turbos run a garret mc12 (i think? its definetely a garret, i could have the number wrong). its a little baby turbo that will work with the 600cc motors.

    Formula SAE in the US is at a small catch 22 of sorts. It's advantageous to run motors smaller than 600cc because of the weight, but nothing is available that small without importing. As a result, most teams either run singles or 600cc fours (Honda f4i , Yamaha R6, etc.). The Mahle motor has been mentioned, but it also has the same drawbacks as the Aprilia, too rare and expensive. It takes a lot of time and money to fully understand a motor, and that's something teams do not have (especially the money).

    sponsorship, anyone?

  15. #15
    apriliaforum Member
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    This year we sponsored UNH's formula SAE project car. We helped them develope a yamaha r6 engine. I too think that the SXV 550 engine would be an awesome powerplant for next years car. I am trying to talk them into it.

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