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Alredygone
09-08-2003, 10:11 AM
Yesterday while watching the Moto GP and Superbike races I was wondering if there were any tracks where the F-1 and Moto GP both race in the same season and if so how do the lap times compare. Just curious, anybody know? BTW the Super Bike races were awesome also.

dowzerr
09-08-2003, 10:14 AM
They race a few of the same tracks.
F1 cars are way faster than both classes.
Power/weight ratio is similar but its all about grip and downforce.

ZAWA
09-08-2003, 12:21 PM
Bikes would be lapped on the 5th. or 6th. lap of the great race. In the late 1960s. there was talk of John Surtees doing the Isle of Man in a F1 car and also 500cc G.P. bike. This would have been something to have seen.

jng1226
09-08-2003, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by Alredygone
Yesterday while watching the Moto GP and Superbike races I was wondering if there were any tracks where the F-1 and Moto GP both race in the same season and if so how do the lap times compare. Just curious, anybody know? BTW the Super Bike races were awesome also.

I was intrigued by this idea a while ago, and found that F1 Cars usually lap about 20+ seconds faster than MotoGP bikes on the same course.

For example, the F1 record around Jerez is 1'17"611 by Ralf Schumacher in the BMW last year. Rossi's MotoGP lap record of Jerez is 1'41"900.

Interestingly, the top MotoGP bikes are typically 3-4 mph FASTER in top speed at tracks like Jerez and Mugello than F1 cars.

It's all down to what dowzerr commented on: Aerodynamics. MotoGP bikes have massive aerodynamics smashing them into the ground in the corners (while limiting their top speeds on the straights as a compromise) while MotoGP bikes rely solely on mechanical grip (further handicapped by the much smaller contact patch) but have better drag coefficient for higher top speeds at the end of long straights.

Interestingly, my streetable Mille R with nothing more than Pirelli SuperCorsa race tires, slip-on, Renegade airbox and Arrow chip (making a shitty 106.2 rwhp) laps Virginia International Raceway North Course about as fast as a Trans Am Jaguar/Mustang and waaay faster than any street car like a 360 Modena, Porsche GT3, etc.

Alredygone
09-09-2003, 10:50 AM
Thanks for the reply. As you say, very interesting.

internec2
09-09-2003, 03:59 PM
Yeah it's all about the downforce. The F-1 cars are so dialed in on the edge. Just watch when they break something on the body no matter how small, they are done.

asg21
09-26-2003, 09:59 PM
A recent CycleNews article about a championship kart race at Laguna Seca said that Eddie Lawson, who's racing karts now, qualified over a second faster than the bike record, which is currently held by Troy Bayliss (2000, I think). Wayne Rainey also races karts, and he said on a GP bike from his era riders used around a quarter throttle around "Rainey" corner in 4th, while karts took the same corner wfo in 6th. These are 250cc shifter karts.

spoof
09-27-2003, 12:11 PM
Don't forget about the brakes. F1 cars can throw down the stoppers like you wouldn't believe. They can brake later and deeper with way more force than bikes can.

The same is probably true of the purpose built kart cars. But don't let that worry you in terms of steetcars --- we can still whup up on them, track or not.

ip2
09-28-2003, 05:49 PM
boring !, watch F1 , i cant tell cars cornering or going streight cause it look exactly same ! nore i can feel nore see cornering thier 4G force with my eyes , i cant tell when a F1 brakes or accelerate , it looks exactly same , i cant even tell who is ahead with so many pit stops !

with bike you can see the cornering , leaned over to very edge , when bike brakes or accelerate you see the effects when front end go on air or do stopies so its more entertaining and not to mention crashes ! a car just spin out but how it feels to do summersalts in the air at 120MPH like superman ?

ahh the sound of 500 GP bikes hiting the band,you could feel the rush of power with rider holding for dear life , the 4 strokes are just dull

F1 cant pass in corners because they are so da#@ huge, so they suck as far as racing go , someone should tell them racing is about overtaking not just speed or pumping gas in pits

dowzerr
09-28-2003, 06:13 PM
For me the difference is the skill level.
A few years back Max Biaggi got to within 5 seconds of Michael Schumacher's fastest lap at a track when he had a go of his Ferrari.
Do you think Michael could get within 5 seconds of Max's best time on a bike if he was riding it? No way!
The difference is that any idiot could drive an F1 car quickly, the car does almost everything for you.
On a bike you need so much more skill to be quick.
Thats the bootom line.
Bike racing will never be more machine than man.