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bounty
01-19-2006, 05:13 AM
Hi all,

Aprilia has just published the owner's manual of the RXV / SXV bikes in their "booklets" section...

http://www.serviceaprilia.com/public/lum/index.asp?l=SXV%20RXV%20450-550

177 pages of information

Haven't read the hole thing yet, but hopefully there will be maintenance schedule and other important info ;-)

Enjoy

Greg who can't wait to get his hands on one...

William the Third
01-19-2006, 11:26 AM
Haven't read the hole thing yet, but hopefully there will be maintenance schedule and other important info ;-)
Page 59 of the PDF is maintenance.

nardharv
01-19-2006, 12:03 PM
pg 66... maintenance interval for road use...

change piston and rings every 6000km... this is twice as often as the suggested spark plug change interval at 12,000km?

clarkie49
01-19-2006, 12:19 PM
the spark plug takes a lot less abuse than a piston in a short-stroke, high rpm 4-stroke ;)

I actually dont think the service schedule is that bad, rather than compare it to a street bike compare it to something like the CRF450, this way you are comparing to similar motorcycles :)

duc slayer
01-19-2006, 12:51 PM
for the metricly challenged, like myself, how many miles is 6000km

NeoGeniX
01-19-2006, 12:53 PM
Thats 3728 miles :)

duc slayer
01-19-2006, 12:59 PM
grassy-ass :cheers:

Hood
01-19-2006, 05:19 PM
So either I am going to get real good at replacing pistons and rings or I'm most likely not getting this machine

Jony2Stones
01-19-2006, 05:31 PM
So either I am going to get real good at replacing pistons and rings or I'm most likely not getting this machine


That's what I'm hoping the couple ahead of me in line will think...:D

kaplano1
01-19-2006, 05:38 PM
This has shorter maintenance intervals than my RS125 2-stroke! :WTF:

The RS needs new piston rings at 8,000km and a new piston at 16,000km (depending on wear).

duc slayer
01-19-2006, 05:51 PM
i don't think it's that bad, my riding season is only april-sept,oct so i'll most likely only need 1 maybe 2 piston's and it can't be rocket science

clarkie49
01-19-2006, 07:05 PM
Guys, remember this is not a typical 'street bike' you are looking at, it is a motard/trail bike, you have to compare apples to apples.

kaplano1 - The RS125 is a 'low performance' 125cc street bike, now imagine if you had a 'real' 125 2-stroke street bike..... yep, there arent any.

Again, compare it to the CRF450X, or the DRZ400 motard, or the KTM525. The production Motard is a slightly detuned Factory race bike with lights, it's what you all wanted remember ;)

If you wanted a commuter bike that you could put 15,000 miles on a year, perhaps you should look at the Tuono instead of the SVX. A lot of the off-road guys i have talked to have had the attitude of "wow, that long between pistons"

Does anyone know what the piston replacement schedule is like for the CRF450 and what people actually change them at?

Jony2Stones
01-19-2006, 07:41 PM
Yeah, I don't think it's bad at all.

And as it's been said, for the hobbie'st racer/rider that spec should last most of the season before a rebuild.

Doesn't JCR have a CRF??? Maybe he can enlighten us on the service issues....:D

kaplano1
01-19-2006, 08:00 PM
Guys, remember this is not a typical 'street bike' you are looking at, it is a motard/trail bike, you have to compare apples to apples.

kaplano1 - The RS125 is a 'low performance' 125cc street bike, now imagine if you had a 'real' 125 2-stroke street bike..... yep, there arent any.

It's completely understandable but I am still a little disappointed as the SXV would have still been a fun bike to ride around town. But when you factor in the cost of 2 new pistons and the labour (if you are not mechanically minded), it doesn't look so appealing.

As you said, most other highly tuned off-road bikes also have very short service intervals and the SXV/RXV are in the same league.

This also seems to indicate that the engine would not be suitable for an RS250 replacement since the service intervals are quite short for a street bike. I wish Aprilia would introduce a mid-sized sports bike.

:cheers:

FORZA
01-19-2006, 08:46 PM
The SXV would NOT be a fun bike to ride on the street. Its horrible unless you are right up the thing, then its fun.

As Mr. Clarke pointed out its a race bike (not really detuned-exhaust and mapping mostly), it idles high, has a very snatchy power delivery down low due to light weight internals and has no civilities like fast idle etc. for warm-ups blah,blah,blah.

The RXV is a little less peaky but not much. Its great in dirt though and fairly tractable in tight stuff if momentum is kept up.

Dave.

Dom124
01-19-2006, 08:48 PM
Hi my name is Adrian and i'm from Sydney Australia,

i have been a long time visitor now first time posting on this first class site.
i have owned a RS-125 and currently ride an 01-RSV Mille.. and long awaiting the arrival of a SXV to Sydney.

Clarkie49-...iam fairly sure a piston / ring kit on Jap bikes was around $450 & a piston / ring kit on a KTM 640 was about $550 (not sure about CRF450)
although... i have spoken to guys thet have done upwards of 18k on DRZ's and the only thing they have done is oil changes and checked valves at 10k.
thats what i have been told..:rolleyes:
i know more high-performance bikes require more frequent rebuilds.
i'm just concerned about the cost of rebuilds on the SXV...(two pistons etc)

SportsCenter
01-19-2006, 08:58 PM
The 2006 Honda CRF450R maintenance schedule says to replace the piston and ring at the same interval as the oil and oil filter... "every 6 races or about 15 hours".

Do some math, the maintenance on the aprilia 45.2 is childs play compared to japanese products. Remember, in theory, the wear should be half of a single cylinder thumper... two power pulses, not one.


John Rossi

duc slayer
01-19-2006, 10:19 PM
I change the piston in my crf 450 once a year and I ride about twice a week on the average. The sxv may not be the greatest "street" bike, but I don't really mind. The city of plattsburgh was kind enough to put in a traffic circle just for me and my new toy, I've also got a 1/5th mile paved oval to play with and my families got about a million square feet of commercial space, so I've got plenty of large parking lots and in the winter I can just move it indoors for some af1 type action

clarkie49
01-19-2006, 10:25 PM
The 2006 Honda CRF450R maintenance schedule says to replace the piston and ring at the same interval as the oil and oil filter... "every 6 races or about 15 hours".

Do some math, the maintenance on the aprilia 45.2 is childs play compared to japanese products. Remember, in theory, the wear should be half of a single cylinder thumper... two power pulses, not one.


John Rossi


thanks for the info JR :) I know a lot of guys on Thumper Talk with CRF450's dont actually change their pistons until 75-100 hours..... not condoning it but that is the reality of a 4-stroke MX bike.

Adiran - you are correct in the fact that it is 2 x time the cost for the Aprilia, of course we could always just hope they come out with a 45hp version that will go 20,000 miles but where would be the fun in that :D

Other things that I think are good is that the engine and tranny oil is seperated, and from what i have heard (you can correct me on this Dave) the Aprilia will take Honda 450 clutch plates. If this is true it means that both the STM slipper clutch and the Rev-lock clutch will drop straight in :cool:

kaplano1 - the 450/550 Aprilia engine was never, ever intended for use in the 250 chassis, no really, never :D Hell the SVX ws never intended as a street bike either ;)

Jony2Stones
01-20-2006, 12:23 AM
from what i have heard (you can correct me on this Dave) the Aprilia will take Honda 450 clutch plates. If this is true it means that both the STM slipper clutch and the Rev-lock clutch will drop straight in :cool:



If that turns out to be true, that would mean that I'd have one of my first 'mods' planned...:D

181
01-20-2006, 12:30 AM
Well this blows....

If you factor in $1000 per engine rebuild (parts & labor). The bike would basically cost me north of $2500 a year just in maintenance and tires for the amount of riding I like to do. I was hoping it would have RSV type reliablility, oh well, guess I'll be getting that new Husky motard.

I don't understand how Suzuki can manufacture a 650cc twin that will make 70+ rwhp and will run forever, but Aprilia makes a 550cc twin that makes 60rwhp and the fu<ker needs to be rebuilt every 3500 miles.

Oh yea!, just saw the 275lb DRY WEIGHT. So this thing is going to go over 300lbs wet, great.

181
01-20-2006, 12:45 AM
I think you guys need to read that service manual a little closer, it clearly states that if the bike will be used for sport purposes (ie track days, races, or how I generaly like to ride LOL) then engine rebuilds are every 60 hours.

You guys think I can squeeze an sv650 motor in that frame LOL. I'm so pissed right now.

Dom124
01-20-2006, 01:23 AM
I'm so pissed right now
Yeah i know what you are feeling. 181...:pissed:

iam finding myself making excusses for their service intervals & reliablility.
i have no doubt that this bike will be something special..:worship: :worship:

i just thought with a seperate oil tank etc, the intervals would be greater.
if its use was solely for competition you would accept it.. BUT a road registered bike lasting...... 60hrs...? :bangwall:

maybe my expectations were too high..
i still love it....

clarkie49
01-20-2006, 08:01 AM
I think you guys need to read that service manual a little closer, it clearly states that if the bike will be used for sport purposes (ie track days, races, or how I generaly like to ride LOL) then engine rebuilds are every 60 hours.

Offroad guys always go off hours, street guys always go off miles which is why they quote both. They also show that if you are in full 'competition' mode or 'hobby' mode the maintenance is the same.

Go buy your SV650 :D, it will leave more SVX's for people that are buying the bike to use as it was intended :burnout:

clarkie49
01-20-2006, 08:04 AM
I'm so pissed right now.

How many miles a year would you do on a 'trackday/race only' bike?

I still dont get why you are so pissed, did someone tell you that it was built as a 20,000 mile 'commuter bike'? :confused:

Dom124
01-20-2006, 10:25 AM
[QUOTE=Dom124]iam finding myself making excusses for their service intervals & reliablility.QUOTE]
To my friends with jap thumpers....(who are in my ear):blah:

my problem is i am looking at trying to kill two birds with one stone...:bond:
i was anticipating the SXV 5.5 would be ok to commute in.... when i say "commute" i mean the odd ride here and there...
it would never be a daily rider!!

my goal was to sell my two bikes in garage and keep one... thus equals, one registration, one insurance policy, more room in garage and having the bike i have been dreaming about for the last 12mths :) :worship::) :worship::)

SportsCenter
01-20-2006, 11:43 AM
Wait a second guys... just because the manual has a schedule of serivce does not imply that it is needed. Hence Aaron's comment:

[QUOTE=clarkie49] I know a lot of guys on Thumper Talk with CRF450's dont actually change their pistons until 75-100 hours..... not condoning it but that is the reality of a 4-stroke MX bike.
QUOTE]

The official aprilia manual still states 60 hours between rings, which I am sure is a conservative number. The official Honda manual states 15 hours. What is anybody complaining about? Weight? It's right in line with any off road or dual sport bike that has a battery, turn signals, headlight, eletrical equipment to run street lights, sidestand, mirrors, etc.

Dry weight:

DRZ400SM 295
DR650S 324
KLR650 337
XR650L 324
525 SMR 290

Ricky J
01-20-2006, 11:57 AM
Ze whole idea of ze Doomsday Machine is lost, if you keep it a secret!

Micah / AF1 Racing
01-20-2006, 01:16 PM
Not that I am reccomending this or anything just a little commentary on intervals for these types of motors based on past thumper dirt/street engines. When the YZ400F first came out cranks were rated for something like 15 hours, maybe 30hours...pistons/rings were very short. A lot of racers found out that these numbers were on the safe side but had to be basically followed or problems would occur. Then there was a story of a guy in one of the bike mags who took his YZ400F, put on some lights and did a 30,000 mile tour on the same engine...without issues.

USE has a HUGE effect on longevity of parts. A single race season on a motor is like tens of thousands of street miles on the same engine. You will NEVER be able to punish an engine on the street like you do on the track. Watching Jon on our RSVR last year really confirmed this in me. On my street Mille I hit the rev limiter twice...ever and I am a pretty aggresive street rider. The RSVR on the other hand has spent almost all of its life between 6,500 and 10,500 rpm at very heavy throttle setting that would kill or at least imprison you for a long time on the street.

I think the schedule for the street bikes will end up being pretty reasonable. Right now they are listing specs for race use. The street motors will be refined and they will be reliable withing an acceptable service schedule. That is probably why they are still not out yet. Aprilia has a lot riding on this engine/bike, they cannot let it get a bad rap for reliabilty.

Basically I just want to let you guys know that I concur with Clarkie and others...this is a pretty realistic set of guidelines for a race engine in the infancy of its development and as time goes on we will all learn a lot more about it and how long the intervals can be stretched for lighter use.

mikeyyc
01-20-2006, 01:59 PM
Uhh, Micah

Did they leave you behind to clean up the old shop, or did you just forget to change the address in your sig line?

Mike:cheers:

RZRob
01-20-2006, 04:32 PM
I think the maintenance should not be compared with anything but a recreational toy like a dirt bike. When I think of the CRF450, it's the valve train that seems maintenance intensive. Is the Aprilia any better in this area? Remember this isn't a commuter bike.

RZ Rob

Jony2Stones
01-20-2006, 05:00 PM
Remember this isn't a commuter bike.

RZ Rob


Exactly.


But, (for some reason) some folks seem to think this is a 450 or 550cc tuono.

duc slayer
01-20-2006, 05:04 PM
I plan on using this as a commuter, a balls to the wall commuter

Jony2Stones
01-20-2006, 05:08 PM
I plan on using this as a commuter, a balls to the wall commuter


That's cool....:cool:

From your previous post--you're probably not scared of the increased service requirements.

Me, I'm planning on running this thing pretty much only as it was intended--track-days, racing....etc... (however if I could get it s-legal, I'd love the occasional romp...:D).

duc slayer
01-20-2006, 05:38 PM
yeah the service dosen't scare me any, especially with manule(sp) If you can read, you should be able to figure out. I know there are quite a few people who don't like to, or don't have the confidence to work on their own machines, which is fine the dealers need some love too. I say commute, but I'm sure it's not the same commute as some have, I live in a town with 20k people and maybe 100k total in the surrounding 20-30 miles. Work is only about 5 miles down the road, which depending on the route, the highway or interstate is only about 1/4 mile from my house and the on/off ramp set up is sweet, 2 up hill sweepers and 2 down hill sweepers, you can keep going around the ramps w/o even getting on the interstate (for the most part). Your only on the interstate for about 200 yards befor your at the next ramp. The other route is straight up through town which is mostly 35-40mph speed limits but the leo's(city) won't bother you unless your doing 60 mph, they won't even bother you if your weaving through traffic, now the state police are a little stricter not much, with the occasional douche bag straight out of the academy. I don't know what their teaching at the police academy these days, but they seem to hate everyone, their just plan prick's

lee1980
01-20-2006, 07:08 PM
Manual looks so good very comprehensive compared to usual manauls!!

I was looking at getting an SXV 550 to replace my S4r but now with these service intervals probably just as expnesive as the monster shame.

Looks real cool just the bike i need for round town and nice corners here:whiner:

Then again i wont do more than 4000 miles a year so maybe same as monster to run as we got the dreaded rocker wear to consider to long term:spam: :gunner:

cheaper insurance to :)

Cheers

Lee

181
01-20-2006, 10:12 PM
How many miles a year would you do on a 'trackday/race only' bike?

I still dont get why you are so pissed, did someone tell you that it was built as a 20,000 mile 'commuter bike'? :confused:


Yea that's just the thing, why put mirrors, a full spedo/computer, dot lights and signals on the bike if it's a "trackday/race" bike? I'm pissed because this bike was so close to being perfect. And I'm not really that pissed about the weight, its just the Aprilia reps kept saying 260#s wet.

Has anyone seen the warranty yet. I'm assuming it's one of those 1 month ones like Honda gives out with the CRF. Yeah $9000 Italian motorcycle with a one month warranty, that sounds safe LOL

Jony2Stones
01-20-2006, 10:59 PM
Yea that's just the thing, why put mirrors, a full spedo/computer, dot lights and signals on the bike if it's a "trackday/race" bike? I'm pissed because this bike was so close to being perfect. And I'm not really that pissed about the weight, its just the Aprilia reps kept saying 260#s wet.

Has anyone seen the warranty yet. I'm assuming it's one of those 1 month ones like Honda gives out with the CRF. Yeah $9000 Italian motorcycle with a one month warranty, that sounds safe LOL


LOL I hear ya, but all the pics yet posted are of
euro models......The one I saw at the sjc show didn't have lights, or plate hanger....

I'm happy that this bike is probably not going to be watered down to meet street legal-ness...

kaplano1
01-21-2006, 01:54 AM
Yea that's just the thing, why put mirrors, a full spedo/computer, dot lights and signals on the bike if it's a "trackday/race" bike?

Exactly. Plus Aprilia are marketing it as a road bike:

"ALREADY PROVEN WINNERS ON THE RACETRACK, THESE TECHNOLOGY-PACKED MACHINES ARE NOW READY TO TACKLE THE CHALLENGE OF THE ROAD" (Source: http://www.aprilia.com/portale/eng/rxv_sxv_1.phtml )

181
01-21-2006, 02:23 AM
LOL I hear ya, but all the pics yet posted are of
euro models......The one I saw at the sjc show didn't have lights, or plate hanger....

I'm happy that this bike is probably not going to be watered down to meet street legal-ness...


I think that they should make two versions. A high-tune off-road "race" one, and a detuned long stroke street one. Hell I'd live with a long stroke 10k RPM 550 that only made 50-55 hp as long as it put out close to 40tq. and had normal service intervals.

clarkie49
01-21-2006, 08:48 AM
I think that they should make two versions. A high-tune off-road "race" one, and a detuned long stroke street one. Hell I'd live with a long stroke 10k RPM 550 that only made 50-55 hp as long as it put out close to 40tq. and had normal service intervals.

long stroke, detuned, 10k rpm....

that would give you around 45hp at the crank max ;) the engine was designed as a high rpm, short stroke engine. it is was it is and remember what you are getting is the race bike with lights which is exactly what everyone wanted. There are so many differences between the 450 and 550 versions (pistons, crank, transmission, tb's) that what you want would require a completely new design, then a new chassis to fit the taller engine, new tooling etc. then all of a sudden you would be paying 10K for a bike built in very low numbers that couldnt get out of it's own way ;)

Look at the KTM range, they have their 'Street motards' (Duke II)which are big, heavy and good for the street, then they have the EXC version which is a green sticker bike (that means not street legal but you can get it on the street, just like the SVX) which is lighter, faster, has a very short warrantee and requires a lot of maintenance.

The SVX was designed to be closer to the EXC than the Duke II, and again the bike and engine was designed for a 'race/competition' bike not a street bike. Wasnt there a thread or a poll that everyone jumped on and said make it a street bike? Sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for :D

clarkie49
01-21-2006, 08:50 AM
Yea that's just the thing, why put mirrors, a full spedo/computer, dot lights and signals on the bike if it's a "trackday/race" bike?


who told you it is coming with mirrors, dot lights and turn signals....

duc slayer
01-21-2006, 12:21 PM
damn it clarkie, I will have my double layered death by chocolate cake with sprinkles and a side of vinilla ice cream and I will eat it too :D

RinOz
01-21-2006, 02:21 PM
can you explain this

There are so many differences between the 450 and 550 versions (pistons, crank, transmission, tb's)
as I'm keen on one but not if you've got to rev the clapper out of it to make it go........ it must have grunt:aussie:

clarkie49
01-21-2006, 02:54 PM
what do you want to compare it to?

the differences are to show that the 550 is not simply a bored out 450, all the info is in the manual provided in the link :)

FORZA
01-21-2006, 04:36 PM
Sorry_space_bar_is_rooted_at_home.

The_450_has_more_low-end_punch_than_most_pro-riders_need.
I_rode_the_550_briefly_in_Noale,the_response_is_aw esome.

The_road_gear_all_comes_off_easy_and_the_weight_is _comparable_to_all_
other_bikes_in_its_class.

It_carries_2yrs._warranty_if_left_in_restricted_fo rm_in_Australia.

Dom124
01-21-2006, 07:29 PM
It_carries_2yrs._warranty_if_left_in_restricted_fo rm_in_Australia.
sounds good to me...:burnout:

you lucky b@st#rd... how was the 550..??
more info would be great if you can be botherd with broken space bar...:gunner:
:cheers:

Hood
01-22-2006, 12:29 AM
Whats an edjumacated guess as to the cost of the parts(pistons/rings, ect)?
500? 700? 1000?

181
01-22-2006, 02:34 AM
who told you it is coming with mirrors, dot lights and turn signals....


Every Aprilia rep I've spoken with.

181
01-22-2006, 02:37 AM
long stroke, detuned, 10k rpm....

that would give you around 45hp at the crank max

Not really...let me do some calc. and I'll give you the #'s for 550cc motor with no higher than 10.5k rpm rev limit that will make 50+hp and 40tq.

clarkie49
01-22-2006, 08:35 AM
a 'Green sticker' bike doesnt.......

ah forget it :bangwall:

Jony2Stones
01-26-2006, 05:00 PM
Husqvarna online manual (models; 2006 TE250/450/510, TC250/450/510 & SM450R/510R)

http://www.cagivausa.com/PDF/husqvarna/06-DOHC-owners-8000A5910.pdf

Page 310 and if I read it right....

Every 15 Hours the Husky's service is close to requirements for 60 hours on the SXV.
Change of piston, valve-check, etc....

(note: comparison using competition-use to competition use)

The Aprilia fairs amazingly well. In fact the Husky calls for additional things that the Aprilia doesn't mention until 90 hours of service (camshaft-measurement, spring-length, etc...)

R Pandya
01-30-2006, 09:07 PM
Ahh, now you begin to see why the Aprilia is a twin. Less vibes, less stress of thermodynamic parts, better life span, more power.
More ride time. Makes you wonder about those who cry wolf about maintenance costs of a twin vs a single...

Rp

duc slayer
01-30-2006, 11:18 PM
for instance the AMA with their ass resting firmly on their shoulders :bangwall: