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Bill in OKC
09-27-2005, 09:19 AM
This is an Alan Cathcart article that was in the Sept. 21 Cycle News:

Aprilia To World Superbike For '07

Aprilia is set to return to the World Superbike Championship
in 2007, according to well-informed sources in Italy, with an
all-new motorcycle that is set to debut in street guise at the
2006 Milan Show held in November.
But contrary to Piaggio CEO Rocco Sabelli's conjecture earlier
in the year, when he confirmed that Aprilia would
return to the World Superbike arena at the expense of its
continued involvement in the high-cost/low-return world of
MotoGP, the bike in question won't be a sanitized street ver-
sion of the company's pneumatic-valved three-cylinder RS3
former MotoGP contender. Instead, Piaggio engineering boss
Lucio Masut, who has been tasked with creating the engine to
power Aprilia's new Superbike contender at his Pontadera
base inside the giant scooter factory, is understood to have
concluded that only an all-new four-cylinder motorcycle has
a chance to be competitive in World Superbike under the
new 1000cc rules, as Sabelli had stated might be the case
when confirming that Aprilia would return to the production-
based form of World Championship racing.
With fellow-Italian marque MV Agusta already building an
inline four, Aprilia is understood to have decided that for mar-
keting reasons at least, it shouldn't opt for a comparable for-
mat - hence Masut is understood to be working on a 1000cc
V-four, which is likely to have an included cylinder angle of
somewhere between 60 degrees and 75 degrees in order to
permit compact installation in the aluminum twin-spar chas-
sis being designed by the team led by Aprilia's frame guru,
Gaetano Cocco. This would necessitate fitting at least one
balance shaft, to reduce undue vibration, and not only would
it remain faithful to Aprilia's narrow-angle vee philosophy, as
expressed via the company's existing 60-degree RSV1000
and off-road, 77-degree SXV450/550 V-twins, but it would
also have the effect of distinguishing the bike from the 90-
degree Ducati Desmosedici V-four coming on line in street
guise one year from now, (which may or may not eventually
find its way to Superbike racing), as well as Honda's V-four
products of the last millennium.
However, it's not been revealed what cylinder angle this
engine will adopt - whether a 60-degree vee like the firm's
current RSV1000 V-twin, or a wider 72-degree layout (which
has certain secondary balancing benefits), 75 degrees (as
KTM's computer model told them was the minimum angle
feasible to prevent masking the intake valves - hence the
LC8 V-twin engine layout and the Austrian firm's MotoGP
motor) or 90 degrees (as in Ducati's and Honda's V-four lay-
outs). Time will tell which one Masut opts for - but don't
expect such an engine to make an appearance in public until
the 2006 Milan Show, then to debut in World Superbike the
following year.

Silver-Bolt
09-27-2005, 10:50 AM
Cool! Fun new stuff on the horizon.

novos
09-27-2005, 11:11 AM
here, let me beat the conjecture, and clarkie to the punch

" ;) "

Ricky J
09-27-2005, 12:29 PM
If Alan Cathcart is bum doping us, may he sleep with the fishes!

Ally V60
09-27-2005, 12:41 PM
If it true or rather if it ever gets off the drawing board and on to the track then :rambo: :rambo: :rambo: but if they find it difficult to deliver parts for a bike that been around for 7 years. Can we realy believe this Alan Cathcart?

Bill :plus: for spreading the word

Ricky J
09-27-2005, 02:10 PM
Nobody wines and dines the European brand bosses like Cathcart. Historically he's been right more often than not.

RSV4ME
09-27-2005, 04:17 PM
Hmmm I wonder what a 60deg V4 would sound like........ :lover:

Ricky J
09-27-2005, 05:27 PM
Not to say they'd sound alike necessarily but the Suzuki MotoGP bike runs a sixty degree vee four. If Aprilia made one there could be a different firing pattern and exhaust configuration which would change the noise it made.

Smoke Eater
09-28-2005, 04:52 AM
I spoke with some of the uber managers of Aprilia this summer. They had said that Aprilia has a Superbike engine that was putting out almost 200 hp.

Turpentine
09-28-2005, 12:35 PM
Was it you or someone else that said that was an inline4?

Smoke Eater
09-28-2005, 02:10 PM
They wouldn't tell me the configuration but from the conversation I figured that it would be a V4.

team222
09-30-2005, 11:10 AM
They should have stayed in WSB all along. Won some, finished on Podium some and finally not spend millions they could not afford in MotoGP and finish 16th race after race and eventually have this sink the company


Mike

john flores
09-30-2005, 11:33 AM
They should have stayed in WSB all along. Won some, finished on Podium some and finally not spend millions they could not afford in MotoGP and finish 16th race after race and eventually have this sink the company


Mike

alas, hindsight is 20/20...they gave it a good shot, spent the $$ on some good riders, but just took too many risks in their technical decision making....

But boy oh boy where would Aprilia be if MotoGP had worked out...

team222
09-30-2005, 11:49 AM
alas, hindsight is 20/20...they gave it a good shot, spent the $$ on some good riders, but just took too many risks in their technical decision making....

But boy oh boy where would Aprilia be if MotoGP had worked out...


There were alot of red flags for Aprilia on the MotoGP effort that should have stopped this program right off

1. Weeee bit of due dilegence would have revealed that in the last 50 years there has never been a competitive motorcycle GP engine made in England.

2. I wonder at the time if they explored a joint venture with Kawasaki for MotoGP..........ofcourse not.

3. Before starting the Aprilia MotoGP effort a budget would have told them they could not afford it and winning would have not changed that fast enough to offset upfront development costs.

4. Finishing in the top five all the time and winning every so often in WSB is alot better for the company, customers and potential customers than running 15th-20th in MotoGP.

Most really bad business outcomes are based on poor or no upfront planning.

Most business successes are based on great planning and need no 20/20 hindsight.

Mike

Heretic
10-20-2005, 05:21 AM
Team222 ur well on the money there !! Aprilia lost the plot when they went GP - it was never going to work. FLY BY WIRE etc.......... meanwhile they have neglected a successfull superbike campaign, 125 & 250 and let the world catch up. The road bike range is an outdated mess (apart from the latest rsv) and they have lost 99% of people who came up through the 125 +250 road bikes as they have no replacements in the 400 - 750cc deisel market.

And if their quitting older RSV's for a song in the USA then there goes your resale value for ever - talk about stabbing your market in the back.

I wrote them off when they bought out the RS250 with the gay flags strips on the side - yet another marketing dept disaster, (marketing departments time wasting shirt lifters the lot of them)

Sorry Aprilia i wont buy another. ever. :bangwall:

team222
10-20-2005, 07:01 AM
Team222 ur well on the money there !! Aprilia lost the plot when they went GP - it was never going to work. FLY BY WIRE etc.......... meanwhile they have neglected a successfull superbike campaign, 125 & 250 and let the world catch up. The road bike range is an outdated mess (apart from the latest rsv) and they have lost 99% of people who came up through the 125 +250 road bikes as they have no replacements in the 400 - 750cc deisel market.

And if their quitting older RSV's for a song in the USA then there goes your resale value for ever - talk about stabbing your market in the back.

I wrote them off when they bought out the RS250 with the gay flags strips on the side - yet another marketing dept disaster, (marketing departments time wasting shirt lifters the lot of them)

Sorry Aprilia i wont buy another. ever. :bangwall:


It's terrible to see how things went with Aprilia the last couple of years.

I am happy I got my Capo when I did before it was too late and thats the best I can say about Aprilia now sad to say.

Mike

stefke
10-20-2005, 08:19 AM
Over here in europe, Aprilia was mostly known for it's quality, high performance two-stroke race replica's (125's and 250's). Their absolute dominance during the second half of the 90'ies in the GP125 and GP250 brought them a lot of publicity (the Biaggi, Cappirossi, Rossi era). For example : the RS125 still is the best sold light bike in europe.

Most people keep talking about the Cube program having drained the WSBK program, but what most seem to forget is that Aprilia's MotoGP project also took funds away from the 125 and 250 GP projects, with the result that H*nda has caught up. And it was in the 125 and 250 GP classes that Aprilia earned one or two world titles every year (you know, win on sunday, sell on monday).

team222
10-20-2005, 08:28 AM
Over here in europe, Aprilia was mostly known for it's quality, high performance two-stroke race replica's (125's and 250's). Their absolute dominance during the second half of the 90'ies in the GP125 and GP250 brought them a lot of publicity (the Biaggi, Cappirossi, Rossi era). For example : the RS125 still is the best sold light bike in europe.

Most people keep talking about the Cube program having drained the WSBK program, but what most seem to forget is that Aprilia's MotoGP project also took funds away from the 125 and 250 GP projects, with the result that H*nda has caught up. And it was in the 125 and 250 GP classes that Aprilia earned one or two world titles every year (you know, win on sunday, sell on monday).

They were so close and had worked so hard to get there.

It's just too bad all the way around for the company, dealers, owners and potential buyers.

Mike

Befbever
10-20-2005, 09:26 AM
Most people keep talking about the Cube program having drained the WSBK program, but what most seem to forget is that Aprilia's MotoGP project also took funds away from the 125 and 250 GP projects, with the result that H*nda has caught up. And it was in the 125 and 250 GP classes that Aprilia earned one or two world titles every year (you know, win on sunday, sell on monday).
.......Jan Witteveen said Aprilia's 125/250 GP bike sales were totally funding the 125/250 effort, something quite unique these days. So I'm not sure what you say is indeed so.

I met Alan Cathcart once. At a race in Mettet (Belgium) he parked his Dodge van right behind mine. He had the V8 version of course, while I had a lowly inline-6. :(
Nice guy. Rolled out a Bimota Tesi among other things. He won his Classic race too. I forget what he rode in that one.

How's that for name dropping? ;)

Ricky J
10-20-2005, 09:49 AM
Somebody pass those guys the Kleenex, will ya? Yeah, Aprilia made mistakes, and they also suffered from things not of their own doing. Today, in October 2005, they are recovering from those disasters and more quickly than most would've guessed. They've buried the Cube's remains under a little stone marker out behind the factory gate. What's done is done.

OK, can we move on now?

Steve / AF1 Racing
10-20-2005, 10:03 AM
How quickly do we forget that the Aprilia management themselves admitted that the reason for the company's financial insolvency was not due to the Cube, (which cost $20mil to develop and ~$15 mil per year to run), but was due to the $100 million spent to buy the tattered remnants of Moto Guzzi, and the destruction of the scooter market by Italian helmet laws and price slashing competition from Chinese scooter companies.

The Cube could have been campaigned for a decade without severly affecting the rest of the company, the real dagger was the Moto Guzzi buyout, and the fluctuation of the scooter market.

ZeroTwoRSV
10-20-2005, 10:48 AM
The real dagger, to me, was pulling out of WSBK. Do all the MotoGP you want, but keep a podium bike running!!!

Now, back to topic, , , where are the spy pics??????

team222
10-20-2005, 11:16 AM
How quickly do we forget that the Aprilia management themselves admitted that the reason for the company's financial insolvency was not due to the Cube, (which cost $20mil to develop and ~$15 mil per year to run), but was due to the $100 million spent to buy the tattered remnants of Moto Guzzi, and the destruction of the scooter market by Italian helmet laws and price slashing competition from Chinese scooter companies.

The Cube could have been campaigned for a decade without severly affecting the rest of the company, the real dagger was the Moto Guzzi buyout, and the fluctuation of the scooter market.


The Moto Guzzi buyout and scooter decline did not take away Aprilia engineering and management time like the MotoGP effort did.....and to continue this resource drain on the company for ten years really does not make sense

Secondly, since both of these items were known at the time the MotoGP effort was starting/going on wouldn't most corporations view the GP effort with caution vs just going ahead.

Nomatter how you look at this....the list of what happened and went wrong is a too long and some if not most of these items could have been anticipated with planning and due diligence. It's called corporate management.

To think the Aprilia went under for a total of a quarter of billion dollars or less is unforgivable.

Additionally, Piaggio's thinking that dealers, customers and motorcycle world in general is simply going to wait around for years and allow them time to figure the post buyout strategy out (which should have been done before the purchase) is either incompetence on their part ...or arroganace ...or both.

Most dealers, current owners, motorcycle press and people in motorcycling have no faith in Aprilia as a company now....and there is no reason they should.

Mike

team222
10-20-2005, 11:31 AM
Today, in October 2005, they are recovering from those disasters and more quickly than most would've guessed.
OK, can we move on now?

Quick recovery!!!!! How about a phantom recovery at best and this is what most dealers, owners and potential owners have seen in the last 2 years. Lets say that any motorcycle company is like having an 8 cylinder engine...all have to fire for it to work. Does Aprilia have anything close to 8 cylinders working from this list though there are 13 items listed?

* Great Designs

* Ability to mass produce/manufacture the designs

* Good Distribution Network

* Good Dealer Network and demo bikes available at all dealers

* Good Parts Availiabilty

* Be able to handle warranty claims .....fairly

* Handle training for mechanics and be there to help dealers on technical q

* Super relationships with major magazines related to getting bikes tested

* Involvememt with Owners and Other Events like Rallies, Racing, Bike Shows

* Wonderful ads and promotion

* Staff the organization with the best people in all the above areas that have 10 or more years in motorcycles

* Good web page

* Understand business and finance


Pass the Kleenex and facts to us all


MIke

johnalex
10-20-2005, 02:55 PM
Nobody wines and dines the European brand bosses like Cathcart. Historically he's been right more often than not.

The yurps wine and dine Cathcart. He gets the news out for them!

Ricky J
10-20-2005, 03:27 PM
Most dealers, current owners, motorcycle press and people in motorcycling have no faith in Aprilia as a company now....and there is no reason they should.

Mike, are you certain of what you write? Might there be the teensy-weensiest bit of exaggeration in there?

If not, good work with your exhaustive research efforts!

team222
10-20-2005, 03:48 PM
Mike, are you certain of what you write? Might there be the teensy-weensiest bit of exaggeration in there?

If not, good work with your exhaustive research efforts!

Originally Posted by team222
Most dealers, current owners, motorcycle press and people in motorcycling have no faith in Aprilia as a company now....and there is no reason they should.



Actually, how about your exhaustive research or facts to support your statement that "Today, in October 2005, they are recovering from those disasters and more quickly than most would've guessed." and specifics as to what those recovery items you are referring to might just be.

I am going on the basis that since the only comment on my two posts you made relates to the above ....we agree on all else in my posts?

Every Aprilia dealer I know supports what I stated.



Mike

Bill in OKC
10-20-2005, 04:40 PM
With a sugar daddy like Piaggio, what me worry? :) Aprilia can survive on transfusions alone - but they won't need to. If they can just get the scooter side to stop designing the paint jobs for the motorcycle side the future's so bright I'll need shades. :rambo:

Ricky J
10-20-2005, 05:04 PM
Mike, to say I agree with you except where previously noted is another assumption. Your "laundry list" of things a company needs to do is not a bad thing, but how many companies do YOU know that "fire" on all those "cylinders"? Pray tell, please share the name- then prepare to be disagreed with.

You can be angry at Aprilia for failing you in a plethora of ways, heck, some people are still mad at Mommie for sitting 'em sideways on the pottie. Hey, no worries eh? But there's a long long list of companies who've fallen on their corporate asses and then recovered to prosper and gain market share. At this point in time I see no concrete reasons for Aprilia not to. If their past failures are unforgiveable by you then nobody will hold a gun to your temple to buy another one- promise! You can still be mad at them, OK? Just don't go on and on with the resentment thing.

Steve / AF1 Racing
10-20-2005, 11:00 PM
The Moto Guzzi buyout and scooter decline did not take away Aprilia engineering and management time like the MotoGP effort did.....and to continue this resource drain on the company for ten years really does not make sense

Secondly, since both of these items were known at the time the MotoGP effort was starting/going on wouldn't most corporations view the GP effort with caution vs just going ahead.

Nomatter how you look at this....the list of what happened and went wrong is a too long and some if not most of these items could have been anticipated with planning and due diligence. It's called corporate management.

To think the Aprilia went under for a total of a quarter of billion dollars or less is unforgivable.

Additionally, Piaggio's thinking that dealers, customers and motorcycle world in general is simply going to wait around for years and allow them time to figure the post buyout strategy out (which should have been done before the purchase) is either incompetence on their part ...or arroganace ...or both.

Most dealers, current owners, motorcycle press and people in motorcycling have no faith in Aprilia as a company now....and there is no reason they should.

Mike

I was really hoping that you wouldn't try to argue this, but okay....

You are right, I am wrong.

When Ivano Beggio (he owned the company pre-Piaggio) said publicly that the single biggest reason for the company's decline into bankruptcy was caused by the monies spent to re-establish Moto-Guzzi, that was good enough for me.

The list of costs related to Moto-Guzzi's purchase and restoration were staggering, $80-120 mil to buy; $40 mil to restore factory, $20-plus mil to develop the Moto-Guzzi MGS-01, and the additional $20-plus mil spent on developing 450cc dirt bikes (there's your real drain on engineering and management time, because the GP effort made use of recycled two-stroke GP talent, while these projects were sourced directly from the production side of the company). I am sure there are other cost's that I'm forgetting, but I never thought that GP would still get blamed for the company's bankruptcy after the Aprilia brass said otherwise. It really bothers me that so many of us want to blame the Cube for the fall of Aprilia when it represented maybe 5% of the company's resouces.

As for the most dealers, owners, motorcycle press and people in motorcycling having no faith in Aprilia as a company now, I am unsure what you're extrapolating that opinion from.

The dealers I know, Scuderia West of California, Seacoast of New Hampshire, and Mototek of Texas are all gearing up for the coming year, and placing orders on more new bikes than ever before. Our company, AF1 Racing has similar exciting plans, and we are eagerly anticipating the '06 model year.

The owners I know can't wait for the new models to come, we can't keep any kind of Aprilia apparel on our shelves for more than two weeks (would you buy apparel for a company that you had no faith in?), and I pack hundreds of boxes per week, all filled with Aprilia products, OEM and aftermarket. If the owners have lost faith I haven't seen any evidence of it.

The motorcycle press is happy with the direction of Aprilia, because Aprilia new models are getting ink in their publications. If you've got no faith in something, if you believe that it has no interest to your readers, you don't cover it in your mag. There's no Aprilia blackout, so I'm thinking they have faith.

What people in motorcycling have no faith in aprilia? We take no less than a dozen new customer calls every single day. Are they motorcycling people? How about the people who stopped me on the street every time I rode my Mille, to ask how they could get one, are they motorcycling people? What about the legendary two-stroke tuner Rocky Stargel. He believes that Aprilia is now stronger than ever, he has two 2005 USGPRU national championships to prove it, Is he motorcycling people? How about Aaron Grigsby, 2005 WERA Superbike champion, his title probably means that he has faith in the company. Is he motorcycling people? What about my friend Jayme, he's never owned an Aprilia, has been riding for years, and can not wait to buy an SXV 450. Is he motorcycling people?

If you feel that everybody has lost faith in Aprilia you are running with the wrong crowd. Aprilia is a special company (its why I chose to work alongside them) and they do have issues, but I have faith that they will get worked out.

If you have no faith in Aprilia, why do you ride one?

kiwifalco
10-21-2005, 02:41 AM
I was really hoping that you wouldn't try to argue this, but okay....

You are right, I am wrong.

When Ivano Beggio (he owned the company pre-Piaggio) said publicly that the single biggest reason for the company's decline into bankruptcy was caused by the monies spent to re-establish Moto-Guzzi, that was good enough for me.

The list of costs related to Moto-Guzzi's purchase and restoration were staggering, $80-120 mil to buy; $40 mil to restore factory, $20-plus mil to develop the Moto-Guzzi MGS-01, and the additional $20-plus mil spent on developing 450cc dirt bikes (there's your real drain on engineering and management time, because the GP effort made use of recycled two-stroke GP talent, while these projects were sourced directly from the production side of the company). I am sure there are other cost's that I'm forgetting, but I never thought that GP would still get blamed for the company's bankruptcy after the Aprilia brass said otherwise. It really bothers me that so many of us want to blame the Cube for the fall of Aprilia when it represented maybe 5% of the company's resouces.

As for the most dealers, owners, motorcycle press and people in motorcycling having no faith in Aprilia as a company now, I am unsure what you're extrapolating that opinion from.

The dealers I know, Scuderia West of California, Seacoast of New Hampshire, and Mototek of Texas are all gearing up for the coming year, and placing orders on more new bikes than ever before. Our company, AF1 Racing has similar exciting plans, and we are eagerly anticipating the '06 model year.

The owners I know can't wait for the new models to come, we can't keep any kind of Aprilia apparel on our shelves for more than two weeks (would you buy apparel for a company that you had no faith in?), and I pack hundreds of boxes per week, all filled with Aprilia products, OEM and aftermarket. If the owners have lost faith I haven't seen any evidence of it.

The motorcycle press is happy with the direction of Aprilia, because Aprilia new models are getting ink in their publications. If you've got no faith in something, if you believe that it has no interest to your readers, you don't cover it in your mag. There's no Aprilia blackout, so I'm thinking they have faith.

What people in motorcycling have no faith in aprilia? We take no less than a dozen new customer calls every single day. Are they motorcycling people? How about the people who stopped me on the street every time I rode my Mille, to ask how they could get one, are they motorcycling people? What about the legendary two-stroke tuner Rocky Stargel. He believes that Aprilia is now stronger than ever, he has two 2005 USGPRU national championships to prove it, Is he motorcycling people? How about Aaron Grigsby, 2005 WERA Superbike champion, his title probably means that he has faith in the company. Is he motorcycling people? What about my friend Jayme, he's never owned an Aprilia, has been riding for years, and can not wait to buy an SXV 450. Is he motorcycling people?

If you feel that everybody has lost faith in Aprilia you are running with the wrong crowd. Aprilia is a special company (its why I chose to work alongside them) and they do have issues, but I have faith that they will get worked out.

If you have no faith in Aprilia, why do you ride one?

Well put chap,you took some of my thoughts exactly & put them to the pen(so to speak), & it's always good to jam it up some now & then, gotta keep the boots on & everything.I sat back & read all the naysayers as I firmly believed that time will tell & it has.Look at whats coming out of Aprilia now.There are few companies that can offer a niche market as our beloved Aprilia can,& to boot I personally think it's only the start.Oh yeah, if you're not the Aprilia type of guy anymore we don't want to hear as we are. :lame: :spankie: :cigar: :cheers:

team222
10-21-2005, 09:10 AM
I was really hoping that you wouldn't try to argue this, but okay....

You are right, I am wrong.

When Ivano Beggio (he owned the company pre-Piaggio) said publicly that the single biggest reason for the company's decline into bankruptcy was caused by the monies spent to re-establish Moto-Guzzi, that was good enough for me.

The list of costs related to Moto-Guzzi's purchase and restoration were staggering, $80-120 mil to buy; $40 mil to restore factory, $20-plus mil to develop the Moto-Guzzi MGS-01, and the additional $20-plus mil spent on developing 450cc dirt bikes (there's your real drain on engineering and management time, because the GP effort made use of recycled two-stroke GP talent, while these projects were sourced directly from the production side of the company). I am sure there are other cost's that I'm forgetting, but I never thought that GP would still get blamed for the company's bankruptcy after the Aprilia brass said otherwise. It really bothers me that so many of us want to blame the Cube for the fall of Aprilia when it represented maybe 5% of the company's resouces.

As for the most dealers, owners, motorcycle press and people in motorcycling having no faith in Aprilia as a company now, I am unsure what you're extrapolating that opinion from.

The dealers I know, Scuderia West of California, Seacoast of New Hampshire, and Mototek of Texas are all gearing up for the coming year, and placing orders on more new bikes than ever before. Our company, AF1 Racing has similar exciting plans, and we are eagerly anticipating the '06 model year.

The owners I know can't wait for the new models to come, we can't keep any kind of Aprilia apparel on our shelves for more than two weeks (would you buy apparel for a company that you had no faith in?), and I pack hundreds of boxes per week, all filled with Aprilia products, OEM and aftermarket. If the owners have lost faith I haven't seen any evidence of it.

The motorcycle press is happy with the direction of Aprilia, because Aprilia new models are getting ink in their publications. If you've got no faith in something, if you believe that it has no interest to your readers, you don't cover it in your mag. There's no Aprilia blackout, so I'm thinking they have faith.

What people in motorcycling have no faith in aprilia? We take no less than a dozen new customer calls every single day. Are they motorcycling people? How about the people who stopped me on the street every time I rode my Mille, to ask how they could get one, are they motorcycling people? What about the legendary two-stroke tuner Rocky Stargel. He believes that Aprilia is now stronger than ever, he has two 2005 USGPRU national championships to prove it, Is he motorcycling people? How about Aaron Grigsby, 2005 WERA Superbike champion, his title probably means that he has faith in the company. Is he motorcycling people? What about my friend Jayme, he's never owned an Aprilia, has been riding for years, and can not wait to buy an SXV 450. Is he motorcycling people?

If you feel that everybody has lost faith in Aprilia you are running with the wrong crowd. Aprilia is a special company (its why I chose to work alongside them) and they do have issues, but I have faith that they will get worked out.

If you have no faith in Aprilia, why do you ride one?


Thanks for your reply.

Let me give you some news.....since the Piaggio purchase of Aprilia there has been a 25% decline of Aprilia dealerships in the USA so please don't tell me or anyone things have been going great the last year!!!!

Our dealer here has heard nothing from Piaggio since they bought Aprilia and has had problems getting parts and being reimbursed for warranty work. North Amercian Warhorse has put Aprilia on hold indefinitely. Two other dealers I called for parts would not order them they are so frustrated by being "kept in the dark" about Piaggio/Aprilias direction.

All of this could have been avoided if Piaggio had communicated the plan for Aprilia to the dealerships and customers then simply revised it when things changed. If they would have done this we would not be having this discussion now!!!!

As far as motorcycle publications being happy with Aprilias new direction....that is not saying much when the magazines compare Piaggio/Aprilia to an Aprilia that was insolvent and ceased production for lack of cash flow.. My overall impression is I see many more comparison tests where Aprilia should have a model included and doesn't for some reason ....than the reverse.

As far as Piaggio being a cash cow that will throw millions at Aprilia to gain back the momentum all of us will be happy to see this however Aprilia in the USA continued to be underfunded under Piaggio and an example of this was their "big" contribution to the largest Aprilia Rally on the East Coast was an item costing them $50.

No one expects to have any company to execute on all the items I mentioned in my prior post............but when you have have say 1/3rd being accomplished there is reason for concern. (1/3rd is generous in my view)

As far as me personally, having no faith in Aprilia now based on what I have seen in the last couple of years has no relationship to what I think about my Aprilia motorcycle...most of us realize this is two different items; however for those that don't the last two years can greatly effect them not buying or keeping their Aprilia and all of this was lost due to lack of communications by Piaggio to the dealerships and customers.

I just got back from a great Aprilia Rally in Northern Pa and not one participant has faith in Aprilia the company, but to the person each loves his bike. Is this anyway to run a company?

Finally and again, Piaggio's thinking that dealers, customers and motorcycle world in general is simply going to wait around for years and allow them time to figure the post buyout strategy out (which should have been done before the purchase) is either incompetence on their part ...or arroganace ...or both.

I do have absolute faith in Aprilias ability to make great and innovative new bikes some of which we are seeing now, but it takes more than great bikes to make a company a success as all Aprilia dealers and owners already know ......soooooo bottom line for me and most is all I want to know is what his planned and it would have been nice if Aprilia would not have lost all its momentum in the marketplace that could have been avoided by communications and advising everyone of the plan.............nuff said.


Mike

team222
10-21-2005, 10:21 AM
Mike, to say I agree with you except where previously noted is another assumption. Your "laundry list" of things a company needs to do is not a bad thing, but how many companies do YOU know that "fire" on all those "cylinders"? Pray tell, please share the name- then prepare to be disagreed with.

You can be angry at Aprilia for failing you in a plethora of ways, heck, some people are still mad at Mommie for sitting 'em sideways on the pottie. Hey, no worries eh? But there's a long long list of companies who've fallen on their corporate asses and then recovered to prosper and gain market share. At this point in time I see no concrete reasons for Aprilia not to. If their past failures are unforgiveable by you then nobody will hold a gun to your temple to buy another one- promise! You can still be mad at them, OK? Just don't go on and on with the resentment thing.



I have a passion for motorcycles and Aprilias and the few people that think Piaggio has be doing a great job the last year with the dealers and owners do not have a monoply on Aprilia passion you know.

When someone or something threatens a passion I have... I go direct to the source with my concerns and have done this with Aprilia USA, Piaggio and on this line.

I am not sure if me doing this would have any more effect than you sitting sideways on your pottie and looking up to the ceiling and saying over and over how great things have been with Aprilia the last two years, but I do know what the effect at Piaggio would be if I did not communicate to them any of my concerns.

Bottom line is I really dont want anyone or company to "piss away" what Aprilia has been and should be in the future for us.


Mike

jswjr600
10-21-2005, 03:05 PM
Mike, are you certain of what you write? Might there be the teensy-weensiest bit of exaggeration in there?

If not, good work with your exhaustive research efforts!


The press seems to have the attitude of dallas cowboys fans do for the cowboys the past few years. You want them to do good, you really do, but in the back of your mind you expect them to fall on their face.

I like my tuono, im gonna keep it forever. I am open to more aprilias, but I fully realize the resale value will suck, they will be relatively expensive to maintain, and parts wont always be easily available or cheap. I can live with that.

Maybe things will change. I hope so, in the mean time I hope they just continue. Aprilia really has had some amazing innovation. Who comes and kicks ass in WSBK the first year they enter with a new bike? Who was willing to try everything they did on the cube? Look at Team roberts, KTM, Blata, etc. Aprilia at least did better than them. Hell, better than suzuki and kawasaki at the time.

When you look at the japanese market, and the sportbike market, something to me is to be said for willingness to innovate, even without resale value. Right now I am cheering on Triumph, as they have many of the same principles I like about Aprilia, but have a very successful business model, as well.

Ally V60
10-21-2005, 03:42 PM
I agree jswkr but it taken trumpets a long time to turn it around, how many times can you raise from the ashes without being blown away by the wind.

Ricky J
10-21-2005, 04:39 PM
Consider the large oceanliner which lost steam in its engineroom and came to a standstill, it doesn't regain speed immediately after refiring the boilers. I look at last December's Piaggio takeover as patching the big ship's leaking fuel tanks, followed by replenishment and then restoring fuel flow. By their statements, they've re-ignited the burners and steam pressure is again climbing. Throttles are being opened, slowly, and at first it seems as though nothing is happening. It would certainly look that way from afar! Our vantage point of Aprilia's recovery is not much better than the shoreline view of that ship, but positive things are taking place sight unseen. Unless Piaggio are completely lying about this whole thing, of course.

Tifosi
10-21-2005, 04:49 PM
They should have stayed in WSB all along. Won some, finished on Podium some and finally not spend millions they could not afford in MotoGP and finish 16th race after race and eventually have this sink the company


MikeBut, if they had succeeded (just a podium finish in the dry) in MotoGP everyone would be jumping for joy. Unfortunately the lesson learned is that no smaller organization need apply to MotoGP. But... the MotoGP fields do look rather good these days.


Unless Piaggio are completely lying about this whole thing, of course. I remember finding something at Piaggio when the buy-out was announced about a v-twin engine they were developing. The output numbers looked pitiful. They must have come a long way in the last couple of years.

James_3
10-21-2005, 06:17 PM
Mike, I have heard more sense come from a monkey on dope.
Perhaps you should go back to school and learn something....
you cannot argue with pure facts! :) :bangwall:

p.s sanchezz i await your efforts with great expectations. hehehe.

Falcon
10-22-2005, 06:10 AM
i have read thru this post and i find it very odd that team222 has his head firmly stuck in his ass.

i know of Mr know it alls, but you my dear take the biscuit for being an asshat

have you ever been laid? or instead of porn mags do you read motorcycle mags while u beat away at ur bishop?

... go out, get laid... u need it

Lee_367
10-22-2005, 02:30 PM
A picture can say a thousand words team222. Ha ha

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Lee_367/other%20stuff/nelson.gif

Speedfreak UK
10-23-2005, 02:42 PM
Team 222 mate you crack me up, please continue :)

team222
10-24-2005, 07:24 AM
Mike, I have heard more sense come from a monkey on dope.
Perhaps you should go back to school and learn something....
you cannot argue with pure facts! :) :bangwall:

p.s sanchezz i await your efforts with great expectations. hehehe.

You talk to monkeys on dope!!!

This thread is wasting alot of peoples time including mine.

All of this really boils down two options and one thing we share

1. Piaggio will get going and start rebuilding Aprilia (Indications are they are finally doing this.)

2. Things will continue they way they are


So share loving our Aprilias and the only difference we have is I wanted Piaggio to implement their plan immediately so the company would not lose so much momentum and for the most part no one else really seems to care that this ever happens

Mike

team222
10-24-2005, 07:29 AM
Team 222 mate you crack me up, please continue :)


Glad you find all of this so entertaining.

I have been thinking about going for the tryouts on replacing Leno when he decides to retire. That way I could buy Aprilia on my big time salary and get the company to start being a real company that makes decisions based on financial projections.

Now ...would that crack you up?



Mike

team222
10-24-2005, 07:52 AM
Consider the large oceanliner which lost steam in its engineroom and came to a standstill, it doesn't regain speed immediately after refiring the boilers. I look at last December's Piaggio takeover as patching the big ship's leaking fuel tanks, followed by replenishment and then restoring fuel flow. By their statements, they've re-ignited the burners and steam pressure is again climbing. Throttles are being opened, slowly, and at first it seems as though nothing is happening. It would certainly look that way from afar! Our vantage point of Aprilia's recovery is not much better than the shoreline view of that ship, but positive things are taking place sight unseen. Unless Piaggio are completely lying about this whole thing, of course.


Ricky

Now we are actually in agreement which I think we always were.

Taking what you said a bit further all I was saying is on this stranded Piaggio/Aprilia ship there were plenty of dealers and owners waiting for a plan of rescue.

By Piaggio waiting over a year to announce their recovery plan....25% of the Piaggio/Aprilia dealers in the USA simply abandoned the Piaggio/Aprilia ship. As time went by many potential Aprilia buyers saw the Piaggio/Aprilia ship stopped and showing no direction and decided that is not the boat or company they want to book passage (I know three myself).

Current owners have all been effected by this. Some say things will be better...the ship will get going again and be better than ever. Some say what is going on and why is it taking so long. Some dont really care and a few like me are saying I have the faith in the bikes ....just share the recovery plan with us, but the confidence level we had with Aprilia now is not as high as it would have been if we would have seen action to get the ship going alot sooner.

I believe Piaggio will get the ship going again ....it's a big investment on their part to just watch rust away and sink, but nomatter how good it ever gets in the future it could have been done sooner and communications with dealers and owners could have been alot better and there is no disputing this.

In the end we all love our Aprilias and want to feel the same way about the company.....I just wanted to feel better and see the ships rescue take less than a year plus


Thx for your reply


Mike

team222
10-24-2005, 07:55 AM
Team 222 mate you crack me up, please continue :)


Heyyy

What was the point of you posting my IP address.....did this empower you somehow to pubish info anyone can get to and know.

Here is a real challenge for you. How many bikes have I owned over the years and how many years in Corporate finance do I have

Mike

team222
10-24-2005, 08:14 AM
[QUOTE=Tifosi]But, if they had succeeded (just a podium finish in the dry) in MotoGP everyone would be jumping for joy. Unfortunately the lesson learned is that no smaller organization need apply to MotoGP. But... the MotoGP fields do look rather good these days.

Agree....

Lesson 2 is why would Aprilias Moto GP motor built in England be the first competitive motorcycle motor built there in over 50 years.

I do believe in miracles and love seeing the underdog to win but this was realllly tooooo much of a stretch to think it would work.

Joint venture with Kawasaki for a MotoGP motor might have been a good first stop.


Mike

Smoke Eater
10-24-2005, 08:19 AM
No way. That's my IP address. Think about it.

I hope Aprilia does well. Historically, Italian motorcycle companies have had a rough time. I thought Aprilia would be the one to break the curse but its looking like they've followed suit.

It's sad to see a company that had such outstanding products fail with them because of shitty management. I was getting a reputation here as the one waving the Aprilia flag all the time but I'm getting tired of doing it by myself.

Speedfreak UK
10-24-2005, 09:48 AM
Where the fuck did I post an IP address? I don't even know how to get my own, let alone someone elses???

irix
10-24-2005, 09:53 AM
Where the fuck did I post an IP address? I don't even know how to get my own, let alone someone elses???

Your signature.

team222
10-24-2005, 10:08 AM
Where the fuck did I post an IP address? I don't even know how to get my own, let alone someone elses???

Steve

I have attached and word doc showing what appeared on a post you made replying to me. Hope you can open it. If you cant email ....pm me your email address and I send it to you via regular e.

I also checked your profile and this same image with my IP address is shown there for some reason.

I believe you that you didnt do this for there was no reason .... but the only other option is someone is hacking into your account info and you should contact the site adm.

Mike

team222
10-24-2005, 10:15 AM
[QUOTE=Smoke Eater]No way. That's my IP address. Think about it.

QUOTE]


Smoke

Knowledgesoft is where I work!!!!! ....you work here also???

Great; an Aprilia owner to go to lunch and and rides


Mike

HarwoodRS
10-24-2005, 11:40 AM
:funnypost The IP address is in his signature, you know that little thing that appears at the bottom of everyones posts? He has a gadget in his which displays your IP address, your ISP and your version of IE. Guess what? On my computer it shows my IP address, do you really think that everyone can see your IP address?

team222
10-24-2005, 11:57 AM
:funnypost The IP address is in his signature, you know that little thing that appears at the bottom of everyones posts? He has a gadget in his which displays your IP address, your ISP and your version of IE. Guess what? On my computer it shows my IP address, do you really think that everyone can see your IP address?

Actually I didnt know what to believe or I would not have asked about it.

He/Steve said he did not do anything to make my IP address to appear.....then I could not figure out what value such a "gadget" would ever have..... and now you are saying I am the only one that can see it....sure I am more than happy to admit I was/am cornfused which comes very easy for me at my age.

Now I am trying to figure out if this is one, two or three mistakes on my part???? :spankie: :spankie: :spankie:


Mike

Turpentine
10-24-2005, 02:42 PM
You need a BJ. Relax a little.. go argue with the nearest hottie about metaphysical problems.

team222
10-24-2005, 02:58 PM
[QUOTE=Turpentine]You need a BJ. QUOTE]

Good advise, but even you might luck out and discover llike I have that anything to daily excess isn't a cure all :tired: :tired: :tired:

Turpentine
10-24-2005, 03:13 PM
Going to be frank, no offense intended.. maybe you get a kick out of being upset and typing about it on a message board? :p:
I don't have anything to add about the OP subject.
Aprilia make good bikes.. This guy bought a Ferrari on impulse simply from riding in a 355 howling thru a tunnel, then discovered the black line running along the side of the car fell off like cheap electrical tape, and some other appallingly flaky electrical glitches.
The guy in Shallow Hall offed this bombshell chick because she had an 11th toe.

You're better off taking things as they come; getting into fits because the finality of things don't match your expectations is not going to make them change into what you wish they were nor change past mistakes. No use living in the past.

As for Aprilia's future, que sera sera.

team222
10-24-2005, 03:30 PM
Going to be frank, no offense intended.. maybe you get a kick out of being upset and typing about it on a message board? :p:
I don't have anything to add about the OP subject.
Aprilia make good bikes.. This guy bought a Ferrari on impulse simply from riding in a 355 howling thru a tunnel, then discovered the black line running along the side of the car fell off like cheap electrical tape, and some other appallingly flaky electrical glitches.
The guy in Shallow Hall offed this bombshell chick because she had an 11th toe.

You're better off taking things as they come; getting into fits because the finality of things don't match your expectations is not going to make them change into what you wish they were nor change past mistakes. No use living in the past.

As for Aprilia's future, que sera sera.



I have done alot of posts on this line ....99% have nothing to do with Aprilias management and future, but all of us should have the right to say our say on this line and in doing so be prepared to take comments from those that agree or rebuttals from those that dont.

You can take it as it comes ....for things I reallllly care about I dont go that route

I took time to send comments to Piaggio and Aprilia USA along with talking to Aprilia USA. I feel good I did that and for your information the person I have talked to at Aprilia USA agreed with me on my points.

What else is left to say. All of us want things to change for the better.....I think all we differ in is how long should it have taken.

Let's move on from this topic.... and hopefully we will all meet at the 2007 Aprilia North America Rally and talk about how great things are and our bikes


Mike