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clarkie49
07-15-2005, 12:04 PM
Questions for you, considering the 450 and 550 v-twin will not be legal for AMA competition (blame Honda and KTM for this) would you rather have a 450 or 550 v-twin?

America is the land of 'Bigger is Better' so does that mean people will just gravitate to the bigger 550 version, and if so is there any point bringing both versions?

Would you prefer to have one version of the bike (eg that comes MX bike) and then be able to buy the 'Motard kit' the 'Enduro kit' the 'Street Legal kit' etc or do you want the 4 bikes next to each other so you can chose the right bike for your purpose. (KTM do this with some of their bikes)

This is just from a discussion I was having with a customer, I have my own opinions but what are yours?

venturaII
07-15-2005, 12:11 PM
I think a 550 would be easier to sell over here - there simply isn't enough market for sub 500cc bikes. Plus, with only 100ccs difference, I think the natural reaction would be to go for the 550, even if both were offered.

From and engineering/performance point of view, the 450 might be a better motor than the 550 (not sure, so I can't speculate), but in street trim, the 550 would be a better option.

Sal Khan
07-15-2005, 12:17 PM
I want 2 499's joined at the crank for a 998cc V4.

Make me one. :D :)

vex
07-15-2005, 12:33 PM
I'd probably want to go with the 550 model and a street kit for my daily commute. :-)

Smoke Eater
07-15-2005, 12:41 PM
The 550 will probably sell better.

vpr80
07-15-2005, 12:42 PM
honestly i would really like a 550 already set-up for street. i def want the bigger engine and would rather not deal with a street-kit but rather have it ready to go.....damn that would be one sweet ride :)

JJ_008
07-15-2005, 12:59 PM
It really depends on how they ride. VOR makes a 450 and a 530. A local dealer races the 450 because it was a little lighter and the power came on better. He had 2 customers return 530's for 450's too. Apparently, they were just too much in regards to torque and power.

I actually rode a 530 super motard and it was scary fast. Way too much for me.

Ides
07-15-2005, 01:28 PM
Hmm...very good questions.

I'm guessing I'd 'probably' gravitate towards the one w/ less total wet weight.

However, if the difference was very slight, I'd probably go for the 550.

I do agree that it'd probably be easier on Aprilia if they brought over only one or the other (450 vs. 550).

You're right on the bigger vs. better mentality...too many folks buyin' 600s, so 'downgrading' to a 550 may not be as big of a stretch as compared to a 450.

Definitely agree on the street grunt 550 > 450 sentiment.

One thing also to consider: some folks would nab one for track only purposes (WERA / CCS?)

-Ides

Dug206
07-15-2005, 03:21 PM
A 550 in a RS250 frame. :) :peace:

vpr80
07-15-2005, 03:39 PM
A 550 in a RS250 frame. :) :peace:

*DING* winning answer :)

seriously though i think a lot of people would really love to get a bike like this....i would definately buy one as a track toy.

duc slayer
07-15-2005, 03:40 PM
Clarkie, I want a 450 mx version, if and when you get one ley me know I'd love to be the first to buy one from you guys

agkrei478
07-15-2005, 03:54 PM
I'd want the 550 but in a RSV version. It would replace my sv650s. Still hoping. As far as the dirt is concerned I feel that the 450 would be a more manageable and therefore more fun mount on the mx track.
Greg

clarkie49
07-15-2005, 04:08 PM
Just stick with the MX/Enduro/Motard/Trail idea for now :)

Big Fish
07-15-2005, 04:21 PM
My question for you Mr. Clarkie is WHY ARE YOU ASKING THIS QUESTION? Is there another Aprilia appearing on the horizon?

clarkie49
07-15-2005, 04:31 PM
Like i said, just had a discussion with a customer :)

A lot of people want every model, in every color, in every size, personally I like what KTM does with some of their dirt bikes where you can buy the 'Street Kit' or 'Motard Race Kit' instead of having to buy a new model.

New models would require a new thread ;)

aceyx
07-15-2005, 04:31 PM
for a dirt bike, definitely a 450.

a 550 just won't move around quickly enough. certainly there's a use (enduro), but if you want to get kids to start using them, the 450 can go against the big three.

best idea would be to get a freestyle rider. x-games? mad coverage.

Silver-Bolt
07-15-2005, 04:37 PM
250 lb Super-Retard 550. Complete with foreign consolate driver license.

cornercarver
07-15-2005, 05:00 PM
I'd like a mix of both. No matter which one I buy, I'd like to be able to buy a 'kit' to change it over. Hopefully, it would be fairly cost effective, too. At the same time, I'd prefer to be able to by the bike in the version that I want the most, so that I can purchase the kit at a later date, if and when I decide I want it. That makes initial purchase cheaper and easier, but leaves me with the same flexibility without having to rely on my dealer remembering to order each individual part necessary for a conversion and paying full retail for each one.

I want a motard that I can, occasionally, set up for a weekend of dirt riding, so if given the choice, that's the base model I'd prefer.

--sam

hank
07-15-2005, 05:55 PM
Sam's Back! :)

Jet City Racer
07-15-2005, 06:02 PM
If you sell a dirt only model and offer a conversion kit would it meet the ever tightening perameters set by the EPA and CARB? Yes, it will be cheaper initially for Aprilia to sell a dirt over a street model, and I think the market is large enough for the off road version.

Street? I really don't know. While forum members may disagree with me on this, I don't know if the US market will/would pay the price for a motard/dual purpose bike to make it profitable for Aprilia to do so.

As far as your original question, what are the weight differences between the 450 and 550? Is the 550 an overbored/stroked 450 or is it the other way around? What other differences are there between the two?

Cost?

:blah:

twinkiethekid
07-15-2005, 06:05 PM
The 450 for the motard/enduro type.

The 550 for a baby Mille.

CBRrider
07-15-2005, 09:47 PM
450 offroad and 550 for the street. Definate YES to the motard kit...I've been looking at the KTM 450/525EXC because they have motard kits and their certificate of origin doesn't state "For offroad use only" ...unlike Honda and Yamaha

Ricky J
07-16-2005, 09:54 AM
Grin generator!

Jet City Racer
07-16-2005, 11:35 AM
More like

Supercalifragilistikexpensivecrashlogistics! :p:

bbluemm
07-16-2005, 02:17 PM
For off road/dual sport, defineately 450. If it makes sense fiancially for the company, I'd say make the off road version, and have a kit available to make it street legal. I think the 550 would be too big for off road, at least for the tight trail stuff that I ride.

duc slayer
07-16-2005, 02:38 PM
Unfortunately I believe the AMA made twins illegal for mx racing as of 06. Does anyone know for sure?

MikeSchinkel
07-17-2005, 03:01 AM
Would you prefer to have one version of the bike (eg that comes MX bike) and then be able to buy the 'Motard kit' the 'Enduro kit' the 'Street Legal kit' etc or do you want the 4 bikes next to each other so you can chose the right bike for your purpose. (KTM do this with some of their bikes)

Assuming that I could buy all kits and *easily* switch between them (i.e. no "one direction only" conversions), I'd want one bike with multiple kits.

Alternately, I'd like 4 models, but have them be dealer prepared (so that Aprilia can get their costs down.)

-Mike

MikeSchinkel
07-17-2005, 03:06 AM
Like i said, just had a discussion with a customer :)

A lot of people want every model, in every color, in every size, personally I like what KTM does with some of their dirt bikes where you can buy the 'Street Kit' or 'Motard Race Kit' instead of having to buy a new model.

New models would require a new thread ;)

The KTM accessory catalog is mouth watering! And awesome!

One way KTM could improve it would be to create more complete "kits" since most everything is the catalog is piece-meal, and hence very expensive. Aprilia should create a similar catalog, but have lots of complete kits, not just for Pegaso Strada, but for all their bikes.

-Mike

Drt Boy
07-17-2005, 05:47 AM
For Off-Road and Dual Sport the 450 would be my choice. The basic Enduro platform and offer a Dual Sport kit and a Super Motard kit.

I think the 550 version would work great in an RS250 type bike and even a mini Tuono.

And ...... bring that 450 with the street legal kit out NOW. I'm having a hard time getting my CRF250X accepted as converted to street legal. I do dual sport rides and would buy that beautiful little Aprilia in a heartbeat!

DB

clarkie49
07-17-2005, 07:02 AM
IAs far as your original question, what are the weight differences between the 450 and 550? Is the 550 an overbored/stroked 450 or is it the other way around? What other differences are there between the two?

Cost?

:blah:

i have no more info than you guys do, i have heard the 450 weighs about the same as the CRF450 and from what we have done with big bore stuff the 550 wont be a lot heavier than the 450.

no idea on price.

morphine
07-17-2005, 02:25 PM
Could anyone venture a guess as to what the 450 or 550 would cost?

Davenet
07-17-2005, 02:57 PM
The KTM accessory catalog is mouth watering! And awesome!

One way KTM could improve it would be to create more complete "kits" since most everything is the catalog is piece-meal, and hence very expensive. Aprilia should create a similar catalog, but have lots of complete kits, not just for Pegaso Strada, but for all their bikes.

-Mike

:plus:

450 w/ all of the kit options (including ice :cigar: ) ala KTM.

tmenduro
07-19-2005, 09:44 AM
I would think that a 450 dual sport version would be the best choice to bring into the country, provided that making it street legal didn't add 20 lbs and make it run poorly (I know this is a long shot). Otherwise, bringing in the 450 enduro and letting owners fight with their state DMV might work best (kind of like KTM, Husky, etc does). Making kits for the various applications (SM, street, etc) would be easiest for Aprilia and would make resale values stay up.

irdave
07-30-2005, 12:33 PM
I think 450 with different kits.

It doesn't seem like any type of a dirt bike (except maybe a KLR) would be good for any kind of distance anyway- so I think 450 would be enough displacement, especially for the dirt.

So, yeah. If I had to pick, I would say 450 MX with the ability to make it streetable/motard.

CalPolyMille
07-30-2005, 01:17 PM
I remember them saying that the motard at laguna would be MORE than competitors. That is competitors in the full race prep motard catagory, so Id guess with others being 8k, maybe like 10.... Maybey more. Who knows.

hank
07-30-2005, 07:05 PM
Yep - an overbuilt 450 mini-mille or tiny-tuono with an assortment of kits that can easily produce a robust 550 without any compromise in reliability.

RSheale
07-31-2005, 08:23 AM
ignore :bangwall:

RSheale
07-31-2005, 08:25 AM
is this the new mini mille
here (http://www.125ccsportsbikes.com/forums//index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=80475)

William the Third
07-31-2005, 10:31 PM
is this the new mini mille
here (http://www.125ccsportsbikes.com/forums//index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=80475)
Thats the RS250 Pista that was never made.
http://www.maxmoto.co.uk/aprilia_pista.shtml

RSheale
08-01-2005, 11:09 AM
i wish they would make a sports middleweight model

i think i would definately give it a shot!

AV8OR
08-01-2005, 05:12 PM
here is the mini mille

benya
08-01-2005, 06:46 PM
That pic of the "mini Mille" has to be a Photoshop job :spankie:

JJ_008
08-01-2005, 08:41 PM
That pic of the "mini Mille" has to be a Photoshop job :spankie:

I sure hope so. I wouldn't want those tires on one. :)

Dug206
08-01-2005, 08:42 PM
Photo shop or not.......I would buy it. I would do it today if it were a 550 and could be punched out to 650 reliably! A Mini Clarkie kit??

MikeSchinkel
08-01-2005, 09:36 PM
Photo shop or not.......I would buy it. I would do it today if it were a 550 and could be punched out to 650 reliably! A Mini Clarkie kit??

Especially if Aprilia sponsored a race series with contingency funds! :cathat:

DanB
08-02-2005, 07:38 PM
Super Motard style bike? I'd say either or (450 or 550), whichever works out best. But for a mini-Mille/tiny-Tuono, I'd say 650 like they're sayin'. Make it ~350 lb., with ~85hp, and I'm THERE. Oh yeah, make the frame look less like the '04+ Mille's and more like the dearly departed RS250's :lover:

Crono
08-12-2005, 02:40 AM
Running back to back a real Supermoto version or Enduro version with 17" Supermoto wheels and SM brakeset, of a VOR 503, I can tell you that the SM version handles way better then the transformed Ensuro version. Same applies for any Enduro (dirtbike) trandformed into SM, the suspension is too soft and even harder springs etc.. will not bring the same feel as the special front forks of an SM setup. It is not simply changing wheels and brakes as done by most brands. Also the wear and tear of the engines in SM use is terrible. With a V-twin set-up as the Aprilia 450, that would be much better.

cavender
08-15-2005, 03:35 PM
Would you prefer to have one version of the bike (eg that comes MX bike) and then be able to buy the 'Motard kit' the 'Enduro kit' the 'Street Legal kit' etc or do you want the 4 bikes next to each other so you can chose the right bike for your purpose. (KTM do this with some of their bikes)Personally I'd like to see all the flavors here, but if twins are not going to see the light of day in sanctioned events then the 550 makes more sense. The 450's won't sell in numbers. I was not aware the AMA addressed the v-twin issue already.

I remember Shane King and/or John Dowd getting all the holeshots on their KTM520's one year in US nationals then the 450cc limit was introduced. Now no v-twins? Yamaha used the old rule, but the AMA encourages development only when Honda says it's okay I guess. :rolleyes:

FalcoLion
08-15-2005, 03:55 PM
here is the mini mille

Sign me up for this one right now :plus: