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View Full Version : Help Fast about clutch spring setup big problem



laz224
12-09-2002, 08:29 PM
Hi its me LAZ i recived today my malossi clutch springs and a yellow big spring....i took it apart but then i could not change the springs in the clutch so i broughted to a dealer how charged 20 $ for putting in the springs and yellow spring...THE dealer put in the RED springs and now when i pull the gas it just revs and revs high and accelerates but not like before with stock springs,,,,but the yellow big spring is good my RPM wont drop any more it just revs as hell and wont pick up right away and it loose acceleration and topspeed whats wrong.....but rpm dont drops:)
Is that the RED Spring is to strong should i put the blue or the green.,...oh and how should i open the clutch i take it of but i cant change the springs and i dont want to pay agin 20$ for just a spring replace...Please help immadiatly...:)

Bishop
12-09-2002, 08:50 PM
When you change the rear pully spring (big yellow spring) to a stronger spring, it lowers the gearing, making the bike rev more.
You need to put heavier roller weights in the Variator to raie the gearing back to way was before you changed the big rear spring.

laz224
12-09-2002, 08:56 PM
yes i change to a big rear spring and the thre little RED springs on the clutch....now isnt the clutch spring(red) doing this or is the weight...now my weights are 4.5g what should i put in???????i dont want it again that they will be to havy or something and i will loossse RPM ???? what should i do isnt that the clutch spring????

Bishop
12-09-2002, 09:08 PM
Changing the single big rear spring is like putting lighter roller weights in the variator.

Your gearing has become too low now, you need to put heavier weights in to bring the gearing back up again.
That is why you lost so much top speed.

You could change to 5g weights and see how it feels, but you may need to change them a few times to get it right.
Remember, heavier weights will make the motor rev less (Maybe more top speed, not as fast off the line), lighter weights will make it rev more (Faster off the line, but less top speed), you need to find what works best for you.

It's not as simple as that, but it gets more complicated when you go into more detail.

tiba karotsu
12-09-2002, 09:09 PM
laz,

you paid $20 just to replace your clutch spring & big spring! you can do it yourself if you can remove the clutch bell first.

we use a pointed pin punch & a hammer if there's no pneumatic impact driver to remove the nut holding the clutch bell, after you remove the clutch bell use the pointed pin punch & hammer to loosen the big nut that holds the clutch to the rear pulley. you just step on the clutch using your heels to keep the clutch & big spring from "springing" out then start loosening the big nut with the pointed pin punch & hammer. once you remove the nut slowly let go of your feet off the clutch, to remove the clutch springs use a vise grip pliers (there's a technique to do this) and have the vise grip "bite" the end of the clutch spring and pull it off without damaging the clutch. to remount the clutch spring use the same technique but putting back the clutch along with the big spring alone is very tricky so you'll need an extra pair of hands to this quickly. if you want to do this yourself just step over the clutch to compress the big spring using the heel and with your hands to support & guide the clutch, once you put in the clutch/big spring thread on the big nut and use the pointed pin punch & hammer to tighten the big nut. just use a bit of caution when tightening using the punch & hammer thing.

just add heavier rollers on the variator, try adding 1g until you feel the scooter is running as it should then fine tune it by adding or subtracting .5g rollers.

your life could be a whole lot easier if you had the right tools to remove your transmission components instead of paying $20 just to have some shop change your springs for you. use your money to buy tools that you need to tweak your scooter. you should get here sooner so i'll teach you everything you need to do the work yourself and go girl hunting just like we planned:D

laz224
12-10-2002, 06:12 AM
Yes thanks about the how to fix the clutch i will try to do it my self next time.....So you guys say that its fine with the RED clutch spring just i should put heavyer weights right??? well i have a question ,,?
Polini has this set that says they have HEAVY,MEDIUM.LIGHT.EXTRA LIGHT WEIGHTS,,well i dont know the numbers how much they weight how much is the heavy one and the others does sombody know????cuz its cheap its 25$ for a set...oh and Tiba it would be time that i would go over but right know later....

tiba karotsu
12-10-2002, 07:30 AM
Laz,

try putting 5g x 6 weights then go heavier or lighter by .5g until you feel that the scooter is accelerating as it should, i have used polini rollers myself as i have a handfull of them in my roller box. the weights range from 2.7g to 5.7g, there are heavier rollers available but i have no use for them so i most often use the 2.7g to 3.6g roller weights.

i recommend getting a set of rollers in these increments;
5.5g x 6
5g x 6
4.5g x 6
4g x 6

laz224
12-10-2002, 10:47 AM
right now my rollers ar 4.5g and so i will put a 5.5 g weigt in it. i try with the set it depend on the prize of the rollers.:)

tiba karotsu
12-10-2002, 10:59 AM
Laz,

try this combo first and see what happens;
4.5g x 3 & 5.5g x 3 so it'll give you a total of 30g then fine tune the set up by changing your rollers 1g at a time.

laz224
12-10-2002, 09:42 PM
Ok just tell me something that will have acceleration and top speed i dont want to do all this stuff cant i just put in one weight set and thats all????because the rollers are freakyn expensive...if you tell me some cheap ones then ok....;)

tiba karotsu
12-11-2002, 07:06 AM
Laz,

i just gave you a ball park answer so get yourself some heavier weights like the 5.5g set you mentioned and use only 3 of the 4.5g and 3 of the 5.5g, that would be 3g heavier than six 4.5g rollers (4.5g x 6 = 27g, 4.5g x 3 = 13.5g + 5.5g x 3 = 16.5g = 30g total) see where i'm getting at.

you have to test different weights to get your scooter running in its powerband so it's difficult to guess exactly what weight rollers will have the best balance of acceleration & top speed, if 30g total still makes the motor revvy then add 1g heavier weights till the scooter accelerates OK and reaches top speed quickly. But if the motor experiences even a hint of rpm drop reduce the weights by .5g to 1g till you feel there's no rpm drop.

if you want cheap but reliable rollers you should come over here very soon and i'll bury you with a truck load of rollers if that's what you want:lol: and i know a place where we can get some pretty sexy girls and i'm very sure you'll like it here.:D

laz224
12-11-2002, 07:10 AM
Well i think it would be time to go over there and pick up some good looking grils but i just have to wait for like 2003 august neaby then i think then i can....
But i just write a email to the guy who sold the spring for me (Badmotorscooters.com) and he says i should change to a different color of spring ,,he says i should change the Red spring neaby to a blue spring.... and not the weights he says thats they include 3 type of weights....he says the red gives to big RPM

tiba karotsu
12-11-2002, 08:06 AM
Laz,

good luck changing the clutch springs if you don't have a pointed pin punch use a hard concrete nail instead, it may seem primitive but it sure does work.

laz224
12-11-2002, 08:07 AM
what is a pin punch how does it look like???

tiba karotsu
12-11-2002, 08:17 AM
it looks like a steel shaft about 8mm in diameter and 5 to 6 inches in length and pointed at the other end & flat on the other, it's called a prick punch there in the states. look for it in hardware stores.

Dutch Royal T
12-11-2002, 08:33 AM
I always use a small screwdriver and HUGE hammer :)

tiba karotsu
12-11-2002, 09:24 AM
Dutch,

i feel sorry for the screwdriver.:rollin:

laz224
12-11-2002, 02:31 PM
well can someone help removing that big Bolt from the clutch i think then it falls apart no??? that is where i need the pinch,,,,screwdriver and hammer no????
If you could provide some pics that would be wonderfull....

tiba karotsu
12-11-2002, 08:07 PM
Laz,

to loosen the big nut (not bolt) on the clutch you must turn it COUNTERCLOCKWISE while hitting it with a hammer & prick punch, don't forget to step on the clutch so the clutch & big spring won't hit you if you loosen the big nut completely. you'll figure it out how to do it in no time so just think it over how you gonna do it.

laz224
12-11-2002, 10:55 PM
Alright my friend i will do that...
Today i get hit by a pickup truck and it crashed the Aerox back and my leg i can beraly move it ,,and gues what that Driver hit the gears and Flee and i couldnt get his Tag number...I m so sad about my Aerox back i nees new Rear light,left sing,,,and a left cover....Do you know some cheap please where i can buy????please help for a seek man|I

laz224
12-11-2002, 10:58 PM
Hey i found pic of the prick punch....
That can be replaced by a screw driver also no>????or is the punch better??

laz224
12-11-2002, 11:49 PM
Oh tiba Do you know some home made info how to remove the clutch without ny special tool ,,and also the variator????

tiba karotsu
12-12-2002, 08:42 AM
Laz,

sorry to hear about the accident involving your scooter, hope that driver who hit you gets what he deserves:mad: .

well you can use an oil filter wrench (chain type) to hold the outer half of the variator pulley (the finned pulley) while you loosen the 17mm nut holding the variator, you can also do the same for the 24mm nut at the clutch bell but a prick punch works best here so is the big nut holding the clutch & big spring together.

laz224
12-12-2002, 10:54 AM
well this morning when i wake up my leg waas hurting much better then yesterday.But it will get better what i need is the rear parts for my Aerox.... oh and thanks about the tip how to remove the clutch or variator i will remove it today and i will change the springs in the clutch......<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/grin.gif ALT=" >D"> i hope the rpm will be fine that it wont Rev that much that it will be normal if not i put the softest springs in ...do you think i still have to change the weigths if i put the new springs (softer springs you know)<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\">

laz224
12-12-2002, 11:27 AM
Oh people i like to ask are there anyh break in periods for the clutch spring i like to know cuz i dont wanna mess up my new clutch springs...;....:(

tiba karotsu
12-12-2002, 11:38 AM
Laz,

you must tune the rollers to cope with whatever big spring you use, softer spring require lighter rollers & stiffer springs require heavier rollers. in time you'll develop some experience just as i did and it'll be easier for you to tune your scooter. next time when you ride out be more alert than usual 'coz those guys who drive 4 wheels can be very unpredictable at times.

when you ride your scooter in the streets of Manila be prepared for a shock 'coz it's a total mayhem of jeeps, cars, trucks & buses trying to out do each other, you'd be very lucky if you can survive a day in this traffic.:rollin:

laz224
12-13-2002, 10:54 PM
Oh tiba what is if i put back the old varitor spring(torq drive spring) and i use it with the new red malossi spring will the rpm drop?? no right ??? what is the yellow spring anyway for???:x

tiba karotsu
12-14-2002, 08:05 AM
the stiffer yellow big spring prevents belt slippage which can ruin a belt in a jiffy, they are a must for tuned scooters even if you just have a pipe in your stock 50cc cilinder and also your scooters are way heavier than ours so more spring pressure is required to prevent belt slip.

laz224
12-14-2002, 10:47 AM
Well my bellt didnt slip when i had the stock spring and it was fine i think i put back today the old big spring and leave the malossi red clutch springs for the rpm drop so that it wotn drop the rpm.... i try what it does i dont need the yellow spring it dosnt preven beltslip cuz my wasnt slping.....

laz224
12-14-2002, 09:35 PM
ok i put in the old bigspring it droped the rpm,then i put back the yellow bigspring and change to the blue clutch springs and then it accelertaes better,,but it isnt good it still revs high,,,but what is this when i put in the new springs it accelerated whenever i pull the throtle...but after a few miles it drops the rpm a little and its not that good in acceleration,,,what is that do i need to break in the clutch springs or what???the red springs started to drop the rpm also,,i dont know whats the problem and my accleretaion is nothing ,,like before with stock springs ,,,when i pull the gas on stock setup,,with the exhaust it picked up the front but now nothing,,please help (whats wrong man)>>????:mad: :evil: :|

tiba karotsu
12-14-2002, 10:39 PM
the heat build up in your transmission is softening the rate of the springs, that's quite normal when you haven't vented your transmission cover yet. try compensating for the drop by installing lighter weights or put on air vents to cool down your transmission.

also get a sandpaper and resurface your clutch lining material and wash your clutch bell with detergent powder and rinse ot off with water, use towel or clean rags to dry. it should give a better performance once it's nice & clean.

if you want to get rid of the rpm drop for good you should get the Malossi rear torque driver half pulley, that should also make your scooter a bit faster.

laz224
12-14-2002, 10:53 PM
i would gladly make airwents but i dont know how to that its to hard...they sell for 50dollars a airwented one but it looks stupid,.,..Dutch royal vents are alsome..
I should sand the clutch well then i will do that and i will clean the bell...but look do you have a trick to get off the clutch bell so it dosnt turn....Oh and way is that that when i had the old exhaust it never get hot that much that it drops rpm

tiba karotsu
12-14-2002, 11:25 PM
stock exhaust have good power from low end to mid range rpm so it'll never drop rpm's that bad even if the tranny gets hot. if it drops then you may have too heavy rollers fitted or the big spring has lost some of it's tension. you should have alook at my vents then you can fit your hands thru them.:lol: i need to cool down my tranny so BIG vents are a must for me, it also makes the cover a bit lighter. bring your cover here and i'll vent them for ya.

you can't prevent it from turning so you'll just have to get used to it the hammer & prick punch is the fastest low buck way to loosen the nuts so think of it this way everytime you change springs you save US$20 so when it all adds up you've just recovered the money you used to buy the tools.

laz224
12-15-2002, 01:46 PM
ok tell me how to make air vent and i do it my self...oh what is if i buy a delta clutch will that get HOT or not tell me ...

tiba karotsu
12-15-2002, 08:50 PM
Delta clutch when used with Malossi clutch bell offers consistent performance even under extreme (racing) conditions so you don't need to worry if the clutch gets hot 'coz it won't slip like the stock clutch does.

it really depends on the shape of the air vents that you want. normally i use a hand drill, die grinder, carbide burrs & grinding stones for smoothening.

first draw the shape of the air vent you want with a pentel pen and with the hand drill make holes on the cover where you put the mark on and drill the holes as close to each other as possible(you must have front & rear air vents), after drilling holes use a hammer to knock out the drilled part of the cover, this should be easy if you spaced the holes close as i suggested just hit it lightly at first till a section gives way.

after removing the drilled out section use a grinding stone fitted to the hand drill to smoothen out the inside of the air vents, go to the hardware store they should have some shaft mounted grinding stone in stock and get only the 1/2 inch diameter cilindrical shape.

put a vent at the low part of the cover where the front pulley is located and do the same at the rear where the clutch bell is. look inside the tranny cover first before you start drilling holes you might hit something like the kick starter gear where you'll put the front air vents.

hope this helps and make it look good, good luck & have fun!

laz224
12-15-2002, 09:26 PM
alright thats easy one morequestion if i drill the holes in it do i drill from the outside or from the inside???will the paint come off after drilling the cover or not???? i think i will do it like Dutch posted his picture last time...remember...:D

Oh and after venting it my father says that its going to suck in a lot of dirt and will mess up the transmission...is that true or should i put something spunch or something that protects it from getting dirti...but any way it got dirty even if its close its full with black stuff...what is that....:eek:

tiba karotsu
12-16-2002, 06:40 AM
Laz,

the best approach is to drill it fron the outside & look inside the cover to be sure you're not hitting anything with the drill bit, the paint is the least of your worries.

yes it will get dirty from time to time but the pros out weigh the cons, the dirt you see insidfe the cover is a mix of worn rubber from the belt & dust build up from the clutch lining. it's very easy to clean it with a blast of compressed air so having an air compressor is dandy.

laz224
12-16-2002, 11:08 PM
Alright i didnt make air vent but rather i will buy a new clutch,,delta clutch,,,but look i think it revs still high with the blue springs should i put haevier weights or not???acceleration is bad,,Top speed almost back to normal but still slower,,,but acceleration is very pooooooorrrrr....Please help i dont know im so ired of this.,,,,that i will put back my old exhaust and springs,,,cuz when i had the old springs and the weights included with the exhaust it accelerated as hell but it droped Rpm...the manual of the exhaust said that the 4.5g weights are for 70Kg Drivers ,,,and they say that the weigths should be reduced by 0.5 for 15-20kgm more until desired weigt thedriver is..well i clculated and it came out to be around 3.2,3.3,3.5, weights would be fine with the old,springs... and they say that when the engine feels blocked,and struggles to increase the revolution.This symptom usually disappears at around 7000-8000 Rpm whit a jerk and sudden acceleration...that means weigts are havy well that was exactly how my was reacting with the old springs and the new 4.5 weights well i think i put back the old spring and get lighter weigts.,..what you think?

So what do you think...???:mad: im angry help

tiba karotsu
12-17-2002, 12:03 PM
Laz,

scooter tuning isn't easy the way it seems to you 'coz you still lack the experience, once you get to know your scooter better it'll be a lot easier for you to sort it out.

patience and a lot of research will get you where you want to go, the best way for you to learn tuning is to find out how each part works in your scooter and how changes to the individual part will affect the performance of the entire system.

don't believe everything the manual tells you, you must experiment different settings that'll suit your requirements. only you & you alone can decide what's the best setting for the type of riding that you do.

start over my friend, set it all back to stock and make small changes to the system using the step by step approach. in time you'll develop the skills to tune your scooter like a pro, fitting it all at once without enough knowledge will only serve to confuse you and that will lead to disastrous (catastrophic) mistakes.

tuning advice;

start over and tune your scooter with the stock pipe first, then perform subtle changes like fitting Multivar then adjust the weights (using stock big spring & clutch spring) then add some more like yellow big spring and see what happens then adjust accordingly, you see where i'm getting at so just do as i said and everything will turn out for the better, you just need a lot of patience, knowledge & experience to good at this i know you can do it.:)