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v01d
01-31-2018, 05:28 AM
There are threads on laptimer, but all seems end up using the V4 MP app . Sorry if I didn't spot if someone asked same thing as I'm asking ..but


I cannot make my dash laptimer work. I can switch to laptimer mode, but I cannot start the timer/chronometer.
I've read the manual section on it x times, pressed the high beam button many times, bike rolling or standing, nothing. Tried other buttons, nothing. Timer doesn't start. Always at all zeros.
How do you start the damn thing? Is this a firmware bug or what?

I will be switching to using that multi-media ECU dongle once ready & installed, but I'm just very annoyed I can't make the standard dash timer work.

Anyone :crybaby:

funimal
01-31-2018, 11:50 AM
Did you remove the light's? That will not work cause the relay-switch is needed.

v01d
01-31-2018, 07:09 PM
Did you remove the light's? That will not work cause the relay-switch is needed.

Yea I did man !

Do you still need that relay switch to make the dash timer work when you installed M-ECU and pair'ed with phone's V4-MP?
I would like to see the laptimer on the dash working, not my (small) phone screen .

Do I need to buy one, and do you have a link to shop that sells them?

funimal
02-01-2018, 02:23 PM
The V4-MP should work anyway. I could not try it by myself yet but i read it in the german forum. Thats exactly what i will try, use a cheap smartphone with the MP4-app as gps-antenna to see the Laptimes in the dash. If you are using a gps-antenna you still need the relay switch cause its just simulating the manual switch.

These starlane and pz-racing modules might work too:

https://www.starlane-shop.de/Aprillia--Ducati--Suzuki--RSV4/RSV4--Aprilia--Laptiming/aprilia-rsv4-aprc-rf-laptimer-mit-datarecording-und-schaltautomaten-quickshifter-fuer-aprilia-rsv4/RSV4--GPS-Laptiming-599.html

https://www.micronsystems.de/pz-racing-ganganzeigen-laptimer/laptimer/gps-empfaenger-fuer-laptimer-in-den-serieninstrume.html (https://www.starlane-shop.de/Aprillia--Ducati--Suzuki--RSV4/RSV4--Aprilia--Laptiming/aprilia-rsv4-aprc-rf-laptimer-mit-datarecording-und-schaltautomaten-quickshifter-fuer-aprilia-rsv4/RSV4--GPS-Laptiming-599.html)

pjm777
02-01-2018, 04:14 PM
I emailed Starlane a few days ago regarding whether their gps trigger works with the 2017 model dash and they said no, but they are working on it.

v01d
02-02-2018, 01:17 AM
The V4-MP should work anyway. I could not try it by myself yet but i read it in the german forum. Thats exactly what i will try, use a cheap smartphone with the MP4-app as gps-antenna to see the Laptimes in the dash. If you are using a gps-antenna you still need the relay switch cause its just simulating the manual switch.

These starlane and pz-racing modules might work too:

https://www.starlane-shop.de/Aprillia--Ducati--Suzuki--RSV4/RSV4--Aprilia--Laptiming/aprilia-rsv4-aprc-rf-laptimer-mit-datarecording-und-schaltautomaten-quickshifter-fuer-aprilia-rsv4/RSV4--GPS-Laptiming-599.html

(https://www.starlane-shop.de/Aprillia--Ducati--Suzuki--RSV4/RSV4--Aprilia--Laptiming/aprilia-rsv4-aprc-rf-laptimer-mit-datarecording-und-schaltautomaten-quickshifter-fuer-aprilia-rsv4/RSV4--GPS-Laptiming-599.html)https://www.micronsystems.de/pz-racing-ganganzeigen-laptimer/laptimer/gps-empfaenger-fuer-laptimer-in-den-serieninstrume.html



Ah thanks mate for all the info.

Today installed that M-ECU for V4-MP app. Haven't tested, as need to go to the track. But hope that the dash' timer will run and count laps with the phone's help.

v01d
04-04-2018, 11:51 PM
Finally got a chance to test it.

The dash laptimer seems to work nicely when you connected with the phone / V4MP app.

shaaaaaa :)

flobrandx
04-05-2018, 12:06 AM
Finally got a chance to test it.

The dash laptimer seems to work nicely when you connected with the phone / V4MP app.

shaaaaaa :)
Did you test it with the lights removed?

v01d
04-05-2018, 12:10 AM
Did you test it with the lights removed?

Of course man, that's why I started this thread to begin with: I discovered the built-in / press-button timer didn't work after removing lights.

(It's very lame they didnt' think of a built-in GPS module, which is as cheap as fk nowdays, for that smart dash. I guess they wanted more money).

Anyway works with that V4MP ECU + the app / phone.

[caveat: tested with a mapped track only. How well / bad that works with un-mapped track you have to search on forum here. I've read PrettyKin had complains 'bout it]

flobrandx
04-05-2018, 12:13 AM
Of course man, that's why I started this thread to begin with: I discovered the built-in / press-button timer didn't work after removing lights.

(It's very lame they didnt' think of a built-in GPS module, which is as cheap as fk nowdays, for that smart dash. I guess they wanted more money).

Anyway works with that V4MP ECU + the app / phone.

[caveat: tested with a mapped track only. How well / bad that works with un-mapped track you have to search on forum here. I've read PrettyKin had complains 'bout it]
I thought so but there are other threads and questions on this and earlier in this thread on post #4 & #5 you guys were talking about the relay switch so wasn't sure if you had to do anything else.

v01d
04-05-2018, 12:17 AM
The relay you would need if you still want to manually trigger it.

(May be a back-up option for when that V4MP app ain't triggering/ starting it right? .. dunno)

flobrandx
04-05-2018, 12:18 AM
The relay you would need if you still want to manually trigger it.

(May be a back-up option for when that V4MP app ain't triggering/ starting it right? .. dunno)
thanks v01d!

phlaug
07-31-2018, 09:58 AM
The relay you would need if you still want to manually trigger it.

(May be a back-up option for when that V4MP app ain't triggering/ starting it right? .. dunno)

Can someone describe specifically what I need to insert where if I have removed the lights and simply want the built in manual lap timer to work again?

thanks!!!

tono4
09-13-2018, 12:51 PM
Some question here - can somebody advise?

potere
09-20-2018, 10:44 PM
Ditto to the previous 2 posts, any help out there?


This device's webpage says:

"50Hz GPS receiver plug & play for Aprilia models. The receiver uses the original dashboard as, time made will be displayed directly on your dashboard. The data is stored in the original instrumentation and can be easily retrieved on the display."

Here's the PZ racing A-tronic AP500 in, dat dah dah DAH.... ENGLISH 160 euros (since all european countries include 20% VAT in their prices, it might be reduced for outside the EU

https://www.pzracing.it/en/project/a-tronic-ap500/

This is a plug and play device for the RSV4 2017-18 only

flobrandx
09-21-2018, 06:26 PM
There is a relay that's attached to the headlight assembly for the flasher button to work on the stock LH switch. I'd have to dig it out of a box to find it and then look at the wiring diagram. Why would you want to manually trigger it anyway? I like using the PZ unit. It's not flawless but works 98% of the time.

EricD
09-21-2018, 10:20 PM
I find the app solution to work good, and having the whole telemetry is nice. I wouldn't use it with the manual trigger. However, it would be nice if Aprilia made the package more like Ducati's DDA+ on my V4, so you don't have to carry a phone around. One thing that's nice about the Ducati variant is that you can use it just as a GPS timer, or you can hook up the USB key for full telemetry if you want the kit.

potere
09-22-2018, 12:33 AM
Have to agree with you both, I hated using the button to trigger new laps, half the time I'd press wrong even after picking a seemingly a slow spot in the track and have to watch 00:00:00 for the whole lap. The lap times I did get were unreliable in my experience. I'm going to get the PZ, cheaper than buying a Ducati :)

flobrandx
09-22-2018, 01:33 PM
I find the app solution to work good, and having the whole telemetry is nice. I wouldn't use it with the manual trigger. However, it would be nice if Aprilia made the package more like Ducati's DDA+ on my V4, so you don't have to carry a phone around. One thing that's nice about the Ducati variant is that you can use it just as a GPS timer, or you can hook up the USB key for full telemetry if you want the kit.
I agree, I liked the Ducati DDA much better on my Panigale but the RSV4 is a much better track bike.

v01d
09-23-2018, 01:44 AM
Can someone describe specifically what I need to insert where if I have removed the lights and simply want the built in manual lap timer to work again?
thanks!!!

The lights are disconnected, and nothing plugged in instead. But, I have purchased the M-ECU (multimedia ECU), which is stock standard on RF model, which plugs in the tail and communicates over bluetooth with your phone (iPhone for me) 's Aprilia app, V4MP.

That app is able to use the built-in phone's GPS to send trigger events to the dashboard's built-in chronometer / laptimer. It works nicely, in my case I only tested on a pre-mapped (preloaded good known track) track on the app.

If you a _pro_ (like, really pro) , at least couple things you will want to consider. 1) The GPS accuracy of your trigger - built-in GPS of your phone. Here it's not just the accuracy and speed of the GPS hw sensor, but also how often the software (V4MP app) is allowed / able to read latest data from it. For e.g.: every 10ms can be highest, but I don't have actual number even for my phone.
2) The trigger is sent over bluetooth to the receiver on the bike and to the dash. There is a delay in it, which is dependent on the version of bluetooth protocol and devices used, as well as the possible interference around you/bike when you ride.

Thus also, the times logged in the dash do not have to match ones logged by the V4MP app (within X ms that is )

I think, if you not shaving off /observing laps with ~10ms (don't have actual numbers) accuracy, then this system is probably ok for you.

Hmm, and I haven't reviewed any Aprilia doc specifying how accurate this system can be in principle.
Anyway, for me, iPhone + V4MP + bluetooth does it at the moment.

prettykin
09-23-2018, 06:40 PM
I was able to get my V4-MP unit working in a very big parking lot near my home a few days before heading to the track using the the 'Add Circuit' feature to manually establish a start/finish point. The funny thing is I was only able to get the damn thing to trigger one lap over 2 days at the track and that only happened when I move the start/finish location from the middle of the front straight to the beginning, just before the last corner and track exit. Out of nowhere the lap timer on my dash triggered a new lap as I was slowing to exit right before the last corner leading onto the front straight during my last session.

After reading V01d's post it got me thinking about the bluetooth signal delay between the phone and bike. Last year when I was able to get the system to work I noticed the lap times logged on the phone within the app didn't match what was recorded directly on the bikes dash board lap counter. It wasn't a big difference in time maybe a half second or so difference in lap times between the two. Could it be the system is having trouble seeing the start/finish because of the speed the bike is traveling? Until last weekend I'd never thought about placing the start/finish location anywhere except the middle of the front straight where my speed is usually in excess of 130mph! Could it be with the phone in breast pocket and traveling at 130 plus the signal delay from the phone to the bike is simply missing, or not seeing the start/finish in time to trigger a new lap? The only 2 variables I can see that are different from my testing of the system in a large parking lot versus at the track is: (1) In the parking lot I had the phone in the ram mount cradle on top of the triple tree. (2) I wasn't going anywhere near as fast as I go on track.


I also notice Aprilia just updated the App for iPhone on Sept 16th. I'm guessing my phone auto updated the app when I got home, put the phone on the charger and connected to my wifi network.

EricD
09-23-2018, 09:57 PM
I was able to get my V4-MP unit working in a very big parking lot near my home a few days before heading to the track using the the 'Add Circuit' feature to manually establish a start/finish point. The funny thing is I was only able to get the damn thing to trigger one lap over 2 days at the track and that only happened when I move the start/finish location from the middle of the front straight to the beginning, just before the last corner and track exit. Out of nowhere the lap timer on my dash triggered a new lap as I was slowing to exit right before the last corner leading onto the front straight during my last session.

After reading V01d's post it got me thinking about the bluetooth signal delay between the phone and bike. Last year when I was able to get the system to work I noticed the lap times logged on the phone within the app didn't match what was recorded directly on the bikes dash board lap counter. It wasn't a big difference in time maybe a half second or so difference in lap times between the two. Could it be the system is having trouble seeing the start/finish because of the speed the bike is traveling? Until last weekend I'd never thought about placing the start/finish location anywhere except the middle of the front straight where my speed is usually in excess of 130mph! Could it be with the phone in breast pocket and traveling at 130 plus the signal delay from the phone to the bike is simply missing, or not seeing the start/finish in time to trigger a new lap? The only 2 variables I can see that are different from my testing of the system in a large parking lot versus at the track is: (1) In the parking lot I had the phone in the ram mount cradle on top of the triple tree. (2) I wasn't going anywhere near as fast as I go on track.


I also notice Aprilia just updated the App for iPhone on Sept 16th. I'm guessing my phone auto updated the app when I got home, put the phone on the charger and connected to my wifi network.

That has been a big part of my theory since the beginning, not because of bluetooth latency, but because the GPS signal on phones is garbage. Apple uses "assisted GPS" which is basically positioning through cell tower triangulation, which is mediocre in its accuracy, and phones only operate their GPs signal at 1hz. I was speculating it would be easy to exceed the lap detection zone of the application when you only get a signal refresh every second and that is why I bought an external, 10hz GPS receiver for my iPhone. From that point on, I got pretty consistent result (let's say, 98% of the laps triggered the timer) every time I went out on track.

I'm still pretty convinced the weak link in the V4-MP platform is relying on assisted GPS signal from phones that are not designed for high frequency, high accuracy polling.

prettykin
09-23-2018, 10:44 PM
That has been a big part of my theory since the beginning, not because of bluetooth latency, but because the GPS signal on phones is garbage. Apple uses "assisted GPS" which is basically positioning through cell tower triangulation, which is mediocre in its accuracy, and phones only operate their GPs signal at 1hz. I was speculating it would be easy to exceed the lap detection zone of the application when you only get a signal refresh every second and that is why I bought an external, 10hz GPS receiver for my iPhone. From that point on, I got pretty consistent result (let's say, 98% of the laps triggered the timer) every time I went out on track.

I'm still pretty convinced the weak link in the V4-MP platform is relying on assisted GPS signal from phones that are not designed for high frequency, high accuracy polling.

Makes sense to me. With 1 second refresh a fast moving bike could consistently pass through the GPS designated lap detection zone. Next time at the track I think I'll try setting the start/finish location in a heavy braking zone leading into a slow corner. Maybe a slow moving bike is more likely to be detected and provide better results.

EricD
09-24-2018, 11:52 AM
Makes sense to me. With 1 second refresh a fast moving bike could consistently pass through the GPS designated lap detection zone. Next time at the track I think I'll try setting the start/finish location in a heavy braking zone leading into a slow corner. Maybe a slow moving bike is more likely to be detected and provide better results.

At the track where I was experiencing this worst (Thunderhill), I'm crossing the start / finish line at over 160mph. Quick math says that's > 200ft per second, I had no problem imagining a world where the app wouldn't trigger if I overshot the start / finish line by over 200 ft before the next sample.

rsnet
09-24-2018, 02:54 PM
I know many who use Qstarz external GPS for this reason, ideally the more cables you can use the better ie avoiding Bluetooth:

so the setups i see are the phones gps disabled and use a 10 or plus Hz external, coupled up to the phone via micro usb.
set the gps on the tail unit like Moto GP, or on the top yolk, Bluetooth the phone to the dash.

This setup the difference between a 5hz and 10hz gps is the track position overlay are slightly better, and lap time within thousands of a second.
Still it’s cheap analysis for your track day.

prettykin
09-24-2018, 05:06 PM
I can confirm with the latest app update via iPhone with the exception of the GPS laptimer detection issue ALL of the other features finally appear to working and provide accurate readouts! It appears all of our emails and phone calls had a positive outcome. I really hope placing the start/finish point in a heavy braking, slow corner will solve the GPS detection issue.

motoracerx
09-24-2018, 06:56 PM
This is why i mounted an AIM SOLO on my RSV4 instead of 'fiddling' with the built in laptimer.
Tracks are already loaded in the AIM. All you do is turn it on and take off.
I like them so much, i got 1 on each of the 4 race bikes.

EricD
09-24-2018, 08:06 PM
This setup the difference between a 5hz and 10hz gps is the track position overlay are slightly better, and lap time within thousands of a second.
Still it’s cheap analysis for your track day.

Small correction, a 10hz GPS unit will only give you tenth of a second accuracy. There is no available commercial GPS technology that gives you thousands of a second precision right now.

EricD
09-24-2018, 08:07 PM
This is why i mounted an AIM SOLO on my RSV4 instead of 'fiddling' with the built in laptimer.
Tracks are already loaded in the AIM. All you do is turn it on and take off.
I like them so much, i got 1 on each of the 4 race bikes.

Do you use the AIM Solo DL? Aside from the lap timer, I really the telemetry feature from the V4-MP app, which is why I've stuck with it despite having multiple traditional beacon I/R lap timers.

motoracerx
09-24-2018, 08:33 PM
Do you use the AIM Solo DL? Aside from the lap timer, I really the telemetry feature from the V4-MP app, which is why I've stuck with it despite having multiple traditional beacon I/R lap timers.

No, just the basic laptimer/gps with speedo. No telemtry. I'm not a 'techy' kinda guy. I've had the RSV4 and the '16 Tuono for nearly 2 yrs and i can honestly say i haven't gone into the modes/menu/functions to do anything but calibrate tires on the Tuono. No idea how to activate LC, WC, laptimer, etc. No interest in the new TFT displays, although i won't have a choice when i get an '18 next spring i guess.

On a side note, the OEM speedo is damn accurate. In some of my videos from a few wks ago, i was showing 160mph on the speedo and the top speed recorded on the AIM SOLO was 158 mph. I had read that the Aprilias are really accurate and I agree.

v01d
10-04-2018, 07:04 PM
.. and phones only operate their GPs signal at 1hz. ... assisted GPS signal from phones that are not designed for high frequency, high accuracy polling.

Oh, worse than I thought. Polling at 10-15Hz would be not-unreasonable for that hardware, or interrupt with a delta position change.

Interesting about "assisted GPS" . Seems it was to help the initial lock-on / reduce time for initial location, but yea, I didn't know how inaccurate that can be , now that I read about it.
Duh ! Now I can scrap my laptimes I thought I was improving on, baaah

This trigger sounds not even good for average track riders ...

v01d
10-04-2018, 07:07 PM
... and use a 10 or plus Hz external, coupled up to the phone via micro usb.
...

Whats the brand / make of external GPS module which can connect to your phone ? Mine is iPhone btw.
And thus replace built-in one, and allow apps to use it.

Saw this one :

http://www.flightstore.com.au/bad-elf-gps-for-apple-lightning-connector?gclid=Cj0KCQjw9NbdBRCwARIsAPLsnFY-ohoQHFX1r1s3hN-2ZaaF_Ayvfb94j9f-KjDNx3KXMY5nGvgMmHIaAiWdEALw_wcB

SPECIFICATIONS
2.5m (9 ft) positional accuracy with MTK chipset
66 channel GPS & GLONASS Receiver
WAAS compatible, SBAS/EGNOS/MSAS support
Up to 10MHz sample rate
Lock times: 2s (hot), 15s (warm), 33s (cold)
Size: 1.1” x 1.1” x 0.25” / 28mm x 28mm x 7mm (WxHxD)
Weight: 0.3oz / 8g - full package 3oz / 85g

EricD
10-04-2018, 10:08 PM
Whats the brand / make of external GPS module which can connect to your phone ? Mine is iPhone btw.
And thus replace built-in one, and allow apps to use it.



I've been using this one with an iPhone. It's bluetooth, not wired, but it works great and I leave it in the tail section.

https://www.amazon.com/Dual-Electronics-XGPS160-Multipurpose-Augmentation/dp/B00E65TNYE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1538708827&sr=8-4&keywords=dual+gps

v01d
10-16-2018, 05:59 AM
I've been using this one with an iPhone. It's bluetooth, not wired, but it works great and I leave it in the tail section.

https://www.amazon.com/Dual-Electronics-XGPS160-Multipurpose-Augmentation/dp/B00E65TNYE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1538708827&sr=8-4&keywords=dual+gps

You can have it working simultaneously with V4MP to RSV4 over bluetooth also ?

potere
10-20-2018, 09:55 AM
Yoyodyne sells the Starlane's GPS for the '17 RSV4; no pictures yet, $259 US

http://www.yoyodyneti.com/product-p/c-gpsocrsv417.htm

v01d
01-04-2019, 06:28 AM
That has been a big part of my theory since the beginning, not because of bluetooth latency, but because the GPS signal on phones is garbage. Apple uses "assisted GPS" which is basically positioning through cell tower triangulation, which is mediocre in its accuracy, and phones only operate their GPs signal at 1hz. I was speculating it would be easy to exceed the lap detection zone of the application when you only get a signal refresh every second and that is why I bought an external, 10hz GPS receiver for my iPhone. From that point on, I got pretty consistent result (let's say, 98% of the laps triggered the timer) every time I went out on track.

I'm still pretty convinced the weak link in the V4-MP platform is relying on assisted GPS signal from phones that are not designed for high frequency, high accuracy polling.

Hey EricD,
just so that I understand right, with external GPS and the iPhone, will the V4-MP use the external GPS for laps? And the dash 's laptimer will be triggered using this external GPS, right?

EricD
01-04-2019, 03:35 PM
Hey EricD,
just so that I understand right, with external GPS and the iPhone, will the V4-MP use the external GPS for laps? And the dash 's laptimer will be triggered using this external GPS, right?

Yes, that's how I run mine.

v01d
01-05-2019, 08:06 PM
Yes, that's how I run mine.
Thanks, I decided give it a go too

v01d
01-30-2019, 04:24 AM
Yes, that's how I run mine.

Hey EricD, I bought myself that unit, so far tested in my car only. It's pretty good.
Question: when you mount it on your bike ,you write in the tail, do you keep it ON the tail, to give it open sky view? or you put it under the seat? Sorry if it's dumb question, but
you wrote "..I leave it in the tail section."
Just wondering if you have some other mounting option here

EricD
01-30-2019, 08:39 PM
Hey EricD, I bought myself that unit, so far tested in my car only. It's pretty good.
Question: when you mount it on your bike ,you write in the tail, do you keep it ON the tail, to give it open sky view? or you put it under the seat? Sorry if it's dumb question, but
you wrote "..I leave it in the tail section."
Just wondering if you have some other mounting option here

I've done both. When riding my bike with track fairings, I've velcro'ed it to the outer surface of the fairing, on the top side. When riding my bike with street fairing, I've put it inside the fail, it's tight but it fits, and it still seems to work just fine.