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Ducati23
06-07-2015, 04:28 PM
Been working on the RSV4

Anyone have a guess what I've done here?

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mikef4uk
06-07-2015, 04:46 PM
Engine Breather :)

Ducati23
06-07-2015, 04:52 PM
We have a Winner.

It is a second much bigger engine breather. Hope it helps to prevent valve cover leaks and reduce engine case pressure. I'm going to check on the dyno and see if it helps power output as well. D23

Proctologist
06-07-2015, 09:22 PM
It is a second much bigger engine breather. Hope it helps to prevent valve cover leaks and reduce engine case pressure. I'm going to check on the dyno and see if it helps power output as well. D23

Thanks for sharing.. please keep us posted -

mikef4uk
06-08-2015, 12:16 AM
We have a Winner.

It is a second much bigger engine breather. Hope it helps to prevent valve cover leaks and reduce engine case pressure. I'm going to check on the dyno and see if it helps power output as well. D23

Good idea, I think Aprilia know what they are doing but the std breather does seem very small! Where did you route it to? what does a factory WSB bike use?

dastrix
06-08-2015, 04:29 AM
Factory WSB uses factory breather and tube to the airbox.

Ducati23
06-08-2015, 05:52 PM
Factory WSB uses factory breather and tube to the airbox.


Good idea, I think Aprilia know what they are doing but the std breather does seem very small!


I believe they do, but they also rebuild those engines frequently. Many RSV4 owners that track ride experience valve cover leaks. I just
did with new seals, new very clean covers, very clean head surfaces and Yamabond 3 sealer that was left to setup for several days. So this
is an attempt to stop the leaks for good.

My take on it is "If the pressure wasn't there stressing the seals it may likely prevent or greatly reduce those leaks". Every 4 stroke engine
deals with crank case pressure one way or another. It remains to be seen if it helps power output, that would be a nice benefit if it does. I can't
imagine that it will hurt anything.

The new hose is 3/4" (@19mm) up to a catch bottle. The stock breather fitting now has a 5/8" (@16mm) hose also leading to a catch bottle.
The engine being vented from both sides can't hurt the cause to reduce internal pressure build up. Running the engine on the dyno showed
significant pressure coming from the vent hose. When I test on the dyno next I'm going to check both hoses to see what kind of pressure comes
from them.

I'm not advocating anyone else try this, but I'm tired of the damn thing leaking like a harley. The cover on the right case has 20M x 1.50 threaded
hole to access the crank end. I used a basic AN straight fitting with correct size threads. Not very hard to reproduce this configuration if someone
wanted to do it. Cheers D23

iroc07
06-09-2015, 10:07 AM
eagerly awaiting results/data from dyno and or road testing:)
I just got done changing valve cover gaskets this winter. Makes a mess all over itself..... PITA

Triple J
06-09-2015, 01:26 PM
I just want to see a photo of where you put your catch bottles. There's so much shit everywhere on the bike, that I can't imagine where additional stuff could go! :)

DGA
06-09-2015, 04:35 PM
Did you put the catch can in place of the charcoal canister?

Ducati23
06-11-2015, 06:01 PM
I just want to see a photo of where you put your catch bottles. There's so much shit everywhere on the bike, that I can't imagine where additional stuff could go! :)

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I found room for the bottles.

Triple J
06-11-2015, 06:29 PM
Very good. I admit I probably wouldn't have thought of putting them all the way up there.

Ducati23
06-11-2015, 07:16 PM
Very good. I admit I probably wouldn't have thought of putting them all the way up there.

It was the only practical place left. You can't tell from the photos, but the bottles are set at angles that allow any oil that makes it that far to collect in the bottom. The long hoses provide a lot of surface area that allows oil mist to in them condense and run back down into the cases. A lot of pressure comes out of both hoses when the bike is rev'd up. D23

Wyckedan
06-11-2015, 08:45 PM
Devils advocate here, but what happens to that hose in an off? The graves frame sliders are known to snap off, does the hose stick far enough out that it would hit the ground and scrape through?

drvacation
06-11-2015, 09:26 PM
Devils advocate here, but what happens to that hose in an off? The graves frame sliders are known to snap off, does the hose stick far enough out that it would hit the ground and scrape through?

least of his worries I'd think

Wyckedan
06-11-2015, 10:15 PM
least of his worries I'd think

Not so much concern for the bike as the hose would wear through a lot quicker than an engine case I'd think, spilling oil on track possibly. Was just a question.

Ducati23
06-13-2015, 11:35 AM
No worries. Not concerned at all.

The slider would have to break off and it has all high grade Ti fasteners that hold up much better than the cheap crap steel that Graves supplies with the kit, case guards would have to fail, the fixed foot rests, the bar end slider, the fairing would have to break away as well before the hoses would be much of a concern. At that point I wouldn't be worried about a hose. D23

RSV4 AROCHA
10-22-2015, 05:51 AM
I would like to hear about the success of this mod. Have you reduced the crankcasse pressure and oil leaks??

Ducati23
10-22-2015, 09:37 AM
Crank case pressure doesn't build up at all in this configuration.

I put in a straight fitting in the hose with some open cell foam behind the fitting to keep oil
from venting too much into the catch bottle. Also put open cell foam in both catch bottles
to collect any oil that makes it that far.

Power output increased on the dyno. Not as much as I hoped for but a couple hp at peak.

Haven't had any oil leaks since doing this modification. That is the #1 benefit of the mod!

I did this to my RSVR and I'm going to do a similar mod on my MV F3. Venting the cases
seems to help track use engines. They spend more time spooled up so it makes sense
to vent the pressure out.

D23

Drop
10-22-2015, 03:53 PM
Interesting mod, thanks for sharing this.

MamboItaliono
10-22-2015, 04:31 PM
Very cool!!!

TrueNorthStar
10-23-2015, 01:37 PM
Power output increased on the dyno. Not as much as I hoped for but a couple hp at peak.


D23

hmmmm I wonder what would happen with a vacuum pump? :P Something I used to use when I was more into auto racing....

gimpboy
10-23-2015, 02:12 PM
Is this still a problem for the people running the 2015 RSV4 RF or have they sorted it on the newer models??

Ducati23
10-23-2015, 02:28 PM
Is this still a problem for the people running the 2015 RSV4 RF or have they sorted it on the newer models??

Hard to say? My engine has very high compression with the SBK kit internal volume blocks, oil separator plate and big windows cut inside the cases so the internal volume characteristics are likely somewhat different than a standard engine. It is track/race only.

My friends who have stock engine street use RSV4's don't seem to have the oil leak issues - except on track where the engine spends significant time spun up to high rpm numbers. Some of them have had oil get past the valve cover gaskets and/or into the airbox.

Who know with the RF? D23

comfysofa
10-23-2015, 02:32 PM
Yep D23 - I like that - I'm all for mods that increase reliability....I think I'm gonna have to see if I can do that....if you've got that much length on the hose (from what I can see the length of the hose is up round the 3ft mark to make it to that point).....does enough oil make it up that far to warrant a tank? just an observation.

Top marks for ingenuity. Very impressed.

Ducati23
10-23-2015, 02:52 PM
Yep D23 - I like that - I'm all for mods that increase reliability....I think I'm gonna have to see if I can do that....if you've got that much length on the hose (from what I can see the length of the hose is up round the 3ft mark to make it to that point).....does enough oil make it up that far to warrant a tank? just an observation.

Top marks for ingenuity. Very impressed.

Only at sustained high rpm, the open cell foam in the hose keeps the vented oil to a very small amount, acting like a separator. Without foam inline oil will get pushed up to a bottle as spray/mist collecting in a bottle. The length of the hose doesn't make much difference once pressure builds, the spray looks for a place to vent to.

comfysofa
10-23-2015, 02:54 PM
Only at sustained high rpm, the open cell foam in the hose keeps the vented oil to a very small amount, acting like a separator. Without foam inline oil will get pushed up to a bottle as spray/mist collecting in a bottle. The length of the hose doesn't make much difference once pressure builds, the spray looks for a place to vent to.

Cool - gonna have to source me a cover now to get something fabricated (whats that cover called?)....as I say, very impressed...don't worry - found it....bloody hell, expensive....I should have known....

ACM
10-23-2015, 08:52 PM
Crankcase venting is a major issue in race cars - my last 15 years have been racing DSMs, and because they're turbo'd that becomes a huge deal. They generate significant levels of crankcase pressure. We do everything we can within whatever rules govern us to vent that pressure - we only rev to 8-10k for the most part, but it still is a significant issue. When the rules allow, we run multiple -10+ hose out of the valve cover to vent the pressure, and vacuum pumps when we're allowed as well. As my car evolved in the last few years I ran into more and more issues with this, pumping so much oil vapour out, I would have had to build a larger catch tank for this season if I was running this year.

One solution cars regularly use is to feed the hoses into the exhaust system - the escaping exhaust gases create a Bernoulli effect suctioning the crankcase - it's an extremely effective solution when your rules allow it, it's almost as effective as a vacuum pump.

Any time you spin a street motor up and keep it there this problem will surface. Factories have to find solutions for this, so that's first place to look.

comfysofa
10-24-2015, 02:39 AM
D23....do you have any step by step pics of putting it together?

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk

Ducati23
10-24-2015, 08:48 AM
D23....do you have any step by step pics of putting it together?

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk

I'll put something together. D23

Rizla V4
10-24-2015, 08:56 AM
Crankcase venting is a major issue in race cars - my last 15 years have been racing DSMs, and because they're turbo'd that becomes a huge deal. They generate significant levels of crankcase pressure. We do everything we can within whatever rules govern us to vent that pressure - we only rev to 8-10k for the most part, but it still is a significant issue. When the rules allow, we run multiple -10+ hose out of the valve cover to vent the pressure, and vacuum pumps when we're allowed as well. As my car evolved in the last few years I ran into more and more issues with this, pumping so much oil vapour out, I would have had to build a larger catch tank for this season if I was running this year.

One solution cars regularly use is to feed the hoses into the exhaust system - the escaping exhaust gases create a Bernoulli effect suctioning the crankcase - it's an extremely effective solution when your rules allow it, it's almost as effective as a vacuum pump.

Any time you spin a street motor up and keep it there this problem will surface. Factories have to find solutions for this, so that's first place to look.


I did exactly this on my old GSXR1000 by re routing the crankcase breather into the pair valve system.

I removed the Suzuki pair valve, but left the hoses coming from the valve covers. Joined them together with a "T" piece and connected the crankcase breather to the open end.

Plugged the airbox and I was good to go.

No more hot oily air dumped into the airbox and no pressure build up in the crankcase.

letsride
10-25-2015, 12:43 AM
Interested in this mod as well.

RSV4 AROCHA
10-26-2015, 09:32 AM
this weekend i tried a new catch can setup. I installed a plastic bottle with foam (fuel tank) and then connected to the airbox and oil leak was reduced considerabily.

Have any of you tried to install check valve (reed valve) in the breather hose? In the KTM forums I found therīs one oem part (check valve) which maybe could be installed at our bikes. Also ducati is using reed valves for theirs PANIGALE and other twins.

mac1984
10-27-2015, 03:55 AM
Looks good, I'm interested in this mod for my 2010 RSV4R . What AN size is the other end of that hose adapter? At a guess it looks either AN-10 or AN-12?

Many thanks

Ducati23
10-27-2015, 11:16 AM
The blue AN fitting - One end is threaded same as the case plug opening and the other a straight AN threaded - there is an O-ring between the case and the AN fitting flange to ensure no oil leakage. I machined the AN threaded end of the fitting on my lathe to make it shorter and take the treads off. I didn't want it to stick out very far.

I'd have to measure, can't remember the actual AN size. I used a 90 degree bend Samco coolant hose and a hose clamp to a barb adapter end, then straight hose with about 100mm of open cell foam in the hose just past the barb adapter, the straight hose fits into a well vented catch bottle with open cell foam inside the bottle.

I'll post some photo's tonight. D23

mac1984
10-27-2015, 03:37 PM
That would be great. Thanks

a_f
05-27-2016, 08:26 AM
The blue AN fitting - One end is threaded same as the case plug opening and the other a straight AN threaded - there is an O-ring between the case and the AN fitting flange to ensure no oil leakage. I machined the AN threaded end of the fitting on my lathe to make it shorter and take the treads off. I didn't want it to stick out very far.

I'd have to measure, can't remember the actual AN size. I used a 90 degree bend Samco coolant hose and a hose clamp to a barb adapter end, then straight hose with about 100mm of open cell foam in the hose just past the barb adapter, the straight hose fits into a well vented catch bottle with open cell foam inside the bottle.

I'll post some photo's tonight. D23


D23, are you still on this mod? Any issue insofar?

ckruzel
05-27-2016, 01:26 PM
when i raced mx i vented my cr250 case with a threaded barbed tip with a clear hose that went down into the skidplated, i think something like that in the case would look better that that large hose

paulmm600
05-27-2016, 02:25 PM
what about a larger vent to the airbox?

Wyckedan
05-27-2016, 02:31 PM
D23, are you still on this mod? Any issue insofar?

In case you didn't notice, he's been banned

a_f
05-28-2016, 04:34 AM
In case you didn't notice, he's been banned

No, I didn't...a pity since he was one of the most active members.
What happened??

wavz
05-28-2016, 10:20 PM
Shit, I wasn't aware of that either! Bummer, I loved his posts.

Wyckedan
05-28-2016, 11:42 PM
No, I didn't...a pity since he was one of the most active members.
What happened??

Probably had something to do with this. http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?314793-2007-RSVR-Factory-Black-amp-Gold

a_f
06-13-2016, 05:42 AM
WARNING FOR ALL THE READERS

I tested this mod and I found that it is extremely dangerous!

The background:
I have been modifing cranckcase vent line in the past on other bikes, and modified also the standard vent line (left side) on the V4 as well, in safety and with good results. The principle behind and the required steps are quite standard stuff to me. Running into this post I thought it was time to do something more and decided to adopt the setup descibed by this post.

The setup:
Pretty similar, if not equal to, the one described here: a 90deg ergal fitting on a AN adaptor screwed (with o-ring and washer) to replace the crankshaft inspection cover; an oil&fuel hose running to the front/up, a reed valve, an oil catch can filled with foam and an additional cotton filter on the final outlet to air, the latter being just below the dashboard.

The results:
A disaster: at intermediate rpms you immediately feel a strong oil smell; at the beginning I thought this was due only by the position of the vent (inside the front fairing, just below the dashboard), but as soon as i really started pushing a vaste amount of oil was sprayed from the cotton filter over my left handlebar, shoulder, fairing and tank! I had to slow down and return to the box, luckily the outlet was in such a visible position that the oil spill was immediately visible, and caused no damage to me and the other riders on the track.

Based on my experience, even if this modification is properly implemented (correct hose size, foam breather and additional cotton filter), IT IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AND SHOULD BE AVOIDED!
This should have been evident to me well before, beacuse even if I adopted the exact same setup on the standard vent line, we should not forget that upstream the oem blow-by line there is a centrifugal oil separator, which is doing a great job in limiting the actual amount of oil vented out. In addition to this, trying to vent sump gases from the cranckcase inspection cover is not a great idea, given the proximity of the crank lubrication lines, which are working at a quite high pressure.

Unfortunately the originator of this thread hasbeen banned, it would be interesting to ask him how the hell he could ride with this mod. I suspect that he just performed some testing on the dyno, but unfortunately this is not the real life...

Some pics of my setup

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telboy39
06-13-2016, 01:49 PM
I'd be worried that at high lean angles there's very little to prevent the oil being pushed up the hose which not only risks the oil being getting out but also reduces the oil in the sump albeit briefly.
A non turbo engine with proper piston ring gaps shouldn't have much crank pressure....i'd be getting the compression tested long before resorting to mods like this.

Airwolf79
06-14-2016, 10:31 PM
Thanks for being the guinea pig for us! Glad you didn't crash, or cause anyone else to.