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View Full Version : Airsal 80 no power! RAGE!



apriliamandan
08-15-2014, 05:29 PM
Right,

So lets start off with the set-up!


Airsal 77 single ring Vertex piston
TurboKit 80cc Race Pipe (Chrome)
21mm Dellorto Carburettor
Malossi Carbon Reeds
14:53 sprockets


Now the problem :


Goes alright in first 3 gears
Stock airbox, cant run more than a 72 main jet, must be too restrictive???
Removed airbox lid, better and will run an 80 jet, but still no mid range and not going right
Completely open carburettor, runs on a 95 main jet, still no mid range, wont pull 5th easily, but better still....
Just a complete lack of power, unless flat out


Does it need a bigger carburettor? Is the airbox really too restrictive?

We have on order a range of open filters to fit, hopefully these will improve things????

I really can't think why this bike isn't going right, tried everything!

Performing worse than the previous Tecnigas pipe and Stickyparts 70 cylinder....whats going on???

The bike struggles to pull past 50mph!

Tried so many jets, getting nice plug colours, but still no mid range power and the powerband isn't much to speak of either!!

This set-up should rip, surely???

Any advice chaps?

Many thanks in advance!

Zav
08-15-2014, 05:36 PM
Right,

So lets start off with the set-up!


Airsal 77 single ring Vertex piston
TurboKit 80cc Race Pipe (Chrome)
21mm Dellorto Carburettor
Malossi Carbon Reeds
14:53 sprockets


Now the problem :


Goes alright in first 3 gears
Stock airbox, cant run more than a 72 main jet, must be too restrictive???
Removed airbox lid, better and will run an 80 jet, but still no mid range and not going right
Completely open carburettor, runs on a 95 main jet, still no mid range, wont pull 5th easily, but better still....
Just a complete lack of power, unless flat out


Does it need a bigger carburettor? Is the airbox really too restrictive?

We have on order a range of open filters to fit, hopefully these will improve things????

I really can't think why this bike isn't going right, tried everything!

Performing worse than the previous Tecnigas pipe and Stickyparts 70 cylinder....whats going on???

The bike struggles to pull past 50mph!

Tried so many jets, getting nice plug colours, but still no mid range power and the powerband isn't much to speak of either!!

This set-up should rip, surely???

Any advice chaps?

Many thanks in advance!

Its one of few things.

Cases he's need modifying to the base gasket (put base gasket on and draw with blue or black market metal left and dermal it out)

exhaust is useless as I said

carbs too small

maybe wrong reeds

and yes the air box is a heap of shit

give you idea of jetting my rs with 21mm airsal 70 and arrow ran and pod filter ram air ran a 97 main jet

my top performance with a 21 mm tecngas exhaust and polini filter runs a 101 main jet

so try any of them things.

Personaly i I would put the tecngas on. And try it if no change get bigger carb and still if no change modify cases as I always did that before fitted it anyway so don't know hat difference it made but tora told me it helps it a lot and he showed me how to do it

Spudgun60
08-16-2014, 01:31 PM
OK. Here's my take on the situation.

First and foremost. I have absolutely no experience with your set-up or components thereof. However, I've done enough reading around here to form an opinion of what works and what doesn't.

It seems that the standard airbox is capable of supporting a carburettor no larger than 19mm. The airbox itself doesn't appear to be the problem. It's the intake holes in the lid. They're just not big enough to support anything larger than 19mm. I did see a thread on here where somebody linked the air duct on the nose fairing to the airbox lid. I've no idea what the out come was, as I didn't read all of the thread. However, the 'ram' effect would help at speed by forcing air into the airbox, thus supporting a 21mm carburettor.

To quote Oscar Wilde: There's only one thing worse than being talked about and that's not being talked about. In other words; People talk about how good or bad their exhaust systems are. As of yet, I've not seen a single mention of a Turbokit exhaust. If nobody is talking about them, then they can't be very good. Personally, I would've bought a Yasuni.

There's nothing wrong with Airsal. They're certainly more popular than the Stickyparts kit, but that's neither here nor there. I shall leave aside the fact that I don't like alloy cylinders and mention power curves. The Stickyparts kit had a fair dollop of low end power. This appears to be missing from this set-up. As with all things; There's no such thing as a free lunch. If you want more top end power, to have to take it from somewhere else (Nature of the 2-stroke beast here). I'll bet you even money that the Airsal kit has taken power from lower in the rev range, in order to add it to the top end. The reducto being: You have to thrash the engine in the lower gears to keep the bike within the power band. The only solution I can offer is; Reduce the number of teeth on the gearbox sprocket to make it easier to keep the revs up at lower speeds.

apriliamandan
08-18-2014, 01:31 PM
Problem 80% sorted. Got rid of the airbox, tried a better open pod filter, played around with jetting and throttle slide needle position and now running much better.
The top end power band is insane, pulls staight to 13,000rpm! The bottom end performance is also very good, its the mid range that is poor at the moment.
The more we play with carb settings, the better things get. I guess we're getting there with the 21mm Dellorto carburettor.
We still think it needs something larger, but by how much I don't know. Possibly 24-28mm Dellorto would be ideal.

The TurboKit 80 pipe we have on there is a pretty high end pipe, we have used it on other kits with great results. Its not the pipe, its the carburettor/jetting.

Anyway, we're getting there! :)

apriliamandan
08-23-2014, 05:30 PM
Dellorto 25mm carburettor, Ram air filter and 32mm swivel race manifold with 112 main jet. Goes like a fooooooook! Geared to 13:53, accelerates to 50mph like hell and tops out around 70mph (around about that). Wants to life the front wheel in first couple of gears. Sounds like it should belong on a race track. Its insane!

Negatives : Revving like hell, very flat untill its in the power band (not so bad with the 25mm carb) and can see it eating cranks soon! lol

However, mega good fun! :)

What sort of power would you says its kicking out now?

Airsal 77 M Racing kit
25mm Dellorto carb
Malossi Reeds (0.33)
Big bore race inlet manifold
TK camarra 80 pipe (high rev pipe)
Ram air filter (race)

Spudgun60
08-24-2014, 01:40 AM
About 25 years ago, I plotted a graph. I trawled the bike magazines, looking for bike tests and factory specifications. I wrote down the claimed top speeds and the claimed power outputs. Once I'd averaged everything out, the graph was plotted. 65mph worked out to be roughly 10bhp. 70mph worked out to be roughly 14bhp. to get to 100mph, you needed roughly 28bhp. So it wouldn't be unreasonable to estimate that you've got 14bhp as you've reached (roughly) 70mph.

Zav
08-24-2014, 03:42 AM
Dellorto 25mm carburettor, Ram air filter and 32mm swivel race manifold with 112 main jet. Goes like a fooooooook! Geared to 13:53, accelerates to 50mph like hell and tops out around 70mph (around about that). Wants to life the front wheel in first couple of gears. Sounds like it should belong on a race track. Its insane!

Negatives : Revving like hell, very flat untill its in the power band (not so bad with the 25mm carb) and can see it eating cranks soon! lol

However, mega good fun! :)

What sort of power would you says its kicking out now?

Airsal 77 M Racing kit
25mm Dellorto carb
Malossi Reeds (0.33)
Big bore race inlet manifold
TK camarra 80 pipe (high rev pipe)
Ram air filter (race)

Airsal claim the most power you can get out the m racing is 16hp without porting cases and the kit it's self. So I would say your about 14 to 15hp as they used a 28mm to get that power

whereas the race kit the claim a 18 to19hp (the kit I am currently using on my rx as I thought fuck it I have 300 left after buying wr so making the most fun I can while I still have her)


my setup is.
Airsal race single ring 76kit.
SLine racing slight ended crank
flowed cases
28mm rg125 carb with no filter at all just some leggings
top performance Cdi with lightened flywheel and no counter balance
tecngas exhaust
11/56 gearing (stupid I know but it wheelies in 6th aha )
top speed is 50mph flat out but it will do 50 on rear wheel :D

and some other mods I've forgot

apriliamandan
08-24-2014, 05:38 AM
About 25 years ago, I plotted a graph. I trawled the bike magazines, looking for bike tests and factory specifications. I wrote down the claimed top speeds and the claimed power outputs. Once I'd averaged everything out, the graph was plotted. 65mph worked out to be roughly 10bhp. 70mph worked out to be roughly 14bhp. to get to 100mph, you needed roughly 28bhp. So it wouldn't be unreasonable to estimate that you've got 14bhp as you've reached (roughly) 70mph.

Im sure it will do far more than 70, it only does 70 currently as we have geared it down 2 teeth (13:53)! It revs out with ease, free revving is an understatement.
My current set-up is pulling an indicated 70mph on the flat (some times 72mph if I am lucky), stays with most 125 4 strokes, so mine is probably around the 14 region. The Airsal kitted supermoto must be a few more than this, the way it delivers its power is immense with this 25mm carb! Anyways, lets not talk too much in figures, the fun bit is the powerrrband! haha

Spudgun60
08-24-2014, 05:57 AM
If I were you, I'd keep the bike slightly undergeared. The ability to accelerate and rev-out the engine is far better than the ultimate top speed. Hell, it's more fun anyway.

apriliamandan
08-24-2014, 06:33 AM
If I were you, I'd keep the bike slightly undergeared. The ability to accelerate and rev-out the engine is far better than the ultimate top speed. Hell, it's more fun anyway.

Thats the hole idea Spud!