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tmac12
06-09-2014, 01:31 PM
So the standard gearing is 12/47?
I really need new sprockets and chain, however would a stock rs still pull a 13/47 gearing? It's only till my 80kit is on. Wpuld it still be ridable though? Let me know asap thanks

NaterTots
06-09-2014, 06:50 PM
I think you'd be alright. I just put a 14 on mine with the 47 and didn't really get to ride it much but it seemed about the same in my driveway as the 12 did.

I was in 3rd gear and the pull didn't feel noticeably slower. But maybe out on the road up near top speed it may not be the same? Hopefully someone else will chime in.
I did put a 70cc kit on right after my short test drive so I never got near top speed with the 14 tooth.

apriliamandan
06-10-2014, 05:49 AM
13:47 is fine for a none bored RS.

tmac12
06-10-2014, 09:51 AM
Thanks, will I actually gain any top end? (Mph)

apriliamandan
06-10-2014, 10:04 AM
Thanks, will I actually gain any top end? (Mph)

Yes, another 3-5mph in the right conditions.

With a big bore and pipe though, 14 or 15 tooth is usually much better.

RS_Patrick
06-10-2014, 12:20 PM
12/47 should work fina also, whats on there now than?

tmac12
06-10-2014, 01:07 PM
12/47 currently, however I've been told by 3 different garages on several occasions that my sprockets and chain need replacing immediately and that in the next weeks there gonna have me off they're that bad. One guy advised me to go up onr on the front. He rode my bike and said that 'the engine outdoes the gearing' or something close, what I think he was saying is after about 8k in the first few gears the engine cleanly revs more & more but the bike won't go quicker, he said up the gearing and it'll keep pulling, and top out slightly higher. Is he right? Ordered a 12 & 13 for the front, their so cheap it saves hassle.

RS_Patrick
06-11-2014, 06:35 AM
With 12/47, what RPM you got in 6th gear at full speed?
And Did it still accelerate pretty fast in 6th gear to its top speed?

Those are the things you need to look at wen picking sprockets.
The engine needs to have the power and a high enough rpm to be able to pull and use the extra tooth on the front sprocket, otherwise the bike wont pull anymore in 6th gear and not get up to its potencial topspeed.

tmac12
06-11-2014, 11:08 AM
Easily pull to more than 10k in every gear, only 9 and a half in 6th but will build up more after a long stretch. Think it'll handle the extra tooth, but my 70kit is here now so it doesn't matter I suppose

RS_Patrick
06-11-2014, 06:18 PM
13 tooth front sprocket than with the 70cc Stickyparts, should give you nice pulling power and good top speed.
Could even try 14 tooth, think it will pull that also, but at the cost of acceleration.


Btw, you also got Stiffer Clutch springs? You will need those as the stock springs cant handle the extra power from the 70cc kit, also you need stiffer reeds, atleast 0.30mm.

Spudgun60
06-12-2014, 11:38 AM
I've got standard clutch springs on my bike. As of yet (touch wood), I've not experienced any clutch slippage. Personally, I don't think the port timings on the Stickyparts 70cc kit are aggressive enough to warrant them. The 13 tooth front sprocket is working well for me (despite my lardy 12.5 stone arse).

nathan k
06-12-2014, 01:24 PM
A great tool when deciding gearing is

http://www.gearingcommander.com/

I'm sure most of you already use it!

RS_Patrick
06-12-2014, 06:14 PM
I've got standard clutch springs on my bike. As of yet (touch wood), I've not experienced any clutch slippage. Personally, I don't think the port timings on the Stickyparts 70cc kit are aggressive enough to warrant them. The 13 tooth front sprocket is working well for me (despite my lardy 12.5 stone arse).

Clutch springs cost really little mate, strongly advice you get a set of them
http://www.malossistore.co.uk/Prodotto.aspx?type=M&MM=MO/APRS50&C=2912235 just 6 pounds...
Little slipping you probably might not notice on your bike, but can do a lot of damadge, and im sure it will slip if your going up hill or are driving against a strong wind in 6th.

Spudgun60
06-13-2014, 12:26 AM
I have to entertain the possibility that the previous owner of the engine that's in the bike had already fitted stronger springs. That could account for the complete lack of slippage.

nathan k
06-13-2014, 04:42 AM
I would have to disagree with patrick here, if it's not broken don't fix it.

If it was slipping you'd know about it.

RS_Patrick
06-13-2014, 05:22 AM
Not really, might be able just to hold on and have verry little slip, but over time it gets worse especaily if you are going up hill etc. where the engine really has to work and puts a lot of load on the clutch.

Its cheaper to be safe and fit new clutch springs that cost less than 10 pounds, than to be sorry and find you burned the clutch plates wich is gonna cost a lot more.

But if your convinced theres really no slip than might be there done already, or the Stickparts 70cc kit and/or the Arrow street pipe really dont have much power.

From what im hearing from Dan now with is setup im not gonna advice the Arrow pipes to anyone anymore, i noticed that the Stinger/Tailpipes on them are much thinner than on the older pipes, same thing with the Giannelli pipes, already had people complaining on how poor those performed compaired to the older pipes :(

Spudgun60
06-13-2014, 10:21 AM
But if your convinced theres really no slip than might be there done already, or the Stickparts 70cc kit and/or the Arrow street pipe really dont have much power.

From what im hearing from Dan now with is setup im not gonna advice the Arrow pipes to anyone anymore, i noticed that the Stinger/Tailpipes on them are much thinner than on the older pipes, same thing with the Giannelli pipes, already had people complaining on how poor those performed compaired to the older pipes :(

It really depends on what you define as 'don't have much power'. I think it's all a bit subjective really.

RS_Patrick
06-13-2014, 05:29 PM
Old Giannelli v.s. New Giannelli i got experiance with on one and the same bike because some guys Giannelli had rusted trough and he wanted an other Giannelli pipe again (kept the old silencer) and he complains that the new pipe is half as powerfull as the old one, tailpipe is also half the size of the old pipe just like the Arrow "Street" pipe.

Luckly if mine rust trough i still got an other old Giannelli pipe as a spare :p: but both pipes still look fine so far (Always coated them with teflon wax) and no i am not selling any of them.

Zav
06-13-2014, 05:36 PM
Old Giannelli v.s. New Giannelli i got experiance with on one and the same bike because some guys Giannelli had rusted trough and he wanted an other Giannelli pipe again (kept the old silencer) and he complains that the new pipe is half as powerfull as the old one, tailpipe is also half the size of the old pipe just like the Arrow "Street" pipe.

Luckly if mine rust trough i still got an other old Giannelli pipe as a spare :p: but both pipes still look fine so far (Always coated them with teflon wax) and no i am not selling any of them.


See,with the Rx it's totally different as my 93 came with a gianelli race pipe a very old one as in I can't find anything except one ad in 95 about them and I compare that to a new gianelli on my mates mx and the old one is tiny compared to the new in every way and we even tried them both out we had to down jet for the old pipe and it felt gutless at top end but did have a bit more low end

RS_Patrick
06-13-2014, 05:54 PM
Think you mean you need a bigger jet for the old pipe than for the new pipe.

The old one is the pipe with the Flame embosed on the Expansionchamber, someone posted a pic of that on here somewhere, My mate had one on his Tuareg, it was slower than my Proma exhaust system though... After my bike got wrecked (exhaust was flattened also) my engine and some other part went into his bike.

I would love to have a Aprilia Tuareg again btw... its just huge

Spudgun60
06-14-2014, 01:14 AM
Old Giannelli v.s. New Giannelli i got experiance with on one and the same bike because some guys Giannelli had rusted trough and he wanted an other Giannelli pipe again (kept the old silencer) and he complains that the new pipe is half as powerfull as the old one, tailpipe is also half the size of the old pipe just like the Arrow "Street" pipe.

This is interesting. I bought my Arrow 'Street' pipe last year. It's the only pipe I've had any contact with, so I've nothing to compare it with (When I bought my RS, the pipe was missing). Since the Arrow 'Street' pipe has road Legal markings, would it be reasonable to assume that Arrow had to change the design to comply with changes in Legislation? If this is the case, I wonder if the Arrow 'Race' pipe has been subjected to any changes?

LEWINS
06-14-2014, 02:57 AM
My bike has 52 teeth on the rear sprocket, should I put 47 on? I want good bottom end and a quite fast top end
cheers

tmac12
06-14-2014, 04:49 AM
My bike has 52 teeth on the rear sprocket, should I put 47 on? I want good bottom end and a quite fast top end
cheers

If your bikes stock then you're choosing better acceleration or a better top end speed, you can balance it out, but without upgrades you can't really have both

Zav
06-14-2014, 05:04 AM
My bike has 52 teeth on the rear sprocket, should I put 47 on? I want good bottom end and a quite fast top end
cheers

No you would leave it as is as it's cheaper to do front sprocket than rear you do the front then when can't get any bigger on front and bike still revs out in 6th you go small on rear

plus they don't do a 47 for your bike plus your bike has nothing to do with his so no need to join in better off making own thread as your bike and his have not a single thing the same

RS_Patrick
06-14-2014, 01:36 PM
For street just change the front sprocket, a lot cheaper and easier to change, and 1 tooth on the front sprocket makes just as much difrence as 3 on the back atleast.

RS_Patrick
06-14-2014, 01:49 PM
This is interesting. I bought my Arrow 'Street' pipe last year. It's the only pipe I've had any contact with, so I've nothing to compare it with (When I bought my RS, the pipe was missing). Since the Arrow 'Street' pipe has road Legal markings, would it be reasonable to assume that Arrow had to change the design to comply with changes in Legislation? If this is the case, I wonder if the Arrow 'Race' pipe has been subjected to any changes?

The Arrow race pipe is also changed slightly, think they redesigned there pipes and figured we just squeeze the street pipe a little more and than sell our race pipes a bit better.

Its just the Giannelli and Arrow street pipes that got thinner tailpipes, Leovince for example is still just as thick as before.

Spudgun60
06-14-2014, 01:58 PM
Its just the Giannelli and Arrow street pipes that got thinner tailpipes, Leovince for example is still just as thick as before.

Is that the inner diameter, or the gauge of metal that was used to make the pipe?

tmac12
06-14-2014, 04:38 PM
From what im hearing from Dan now with is setup im not gonna advice the Arrow pipes to anyone anymore, i noticed that the Stinger/Tailpipes on them are much thinner than on the older pipes, same thing with the Giannelli pipes, already had people complaining on how poor those performed compaired to the older pipes :(

Hey patrick, here in the uk we get two versions of the arrow pipe, a 'street' and the 'race' 'fullpower pipe' I've been told by a few that the steet pipes are quite restricted, to meet noise/power regulations & the race pipes are not atall & are stamped 'not for road use' getting caught with one is a fine and some other goodies. However he said the everyone runs the race pipes because you're paying for the power so why not get all of it & with a little extra noise too!

Zav
06-14-2014, 07:54 PM
No we don't we get fake race pipes so they get more money as I have a apparent race arrow and it's same as a road even e marked

Spudgun60
06-15-2014, 01:55 AM
No we don't we get fake race pipes so they get more money as I have a apparent race arrow and it's same as a road even e marked

I can see the logic in that. Stick the word "Race" in front of something and charge more for it. There's enough suckers that'll fall for it (It's the same in the gun world. They just stick the word "Tactical" in the description). It's true that I've seen more pictures of RS50's fitted with the 'Race' pipe than I have of the 'Street' pipe. So if the 'Race' and 'Street' pipe are one and the same, the scam works.

However, I've yet to be convinced that the two pipes are the same. At worst; The only difference is the 'Street' pipe has a washer welded into the down pipe, where the 'Race' pipe doesn't. At best; There are subtle differences in the dimensions of the two pipes. Since I don't have the two pipes to place side by side, I couldn't really say.

RS_Patrick
06-15-2014, 02:49 PM
Hey patrick, here in the uk we get two versions of the arrow pipe, a 'street' and the 'race' 'fullpower pipe' I've been told by a few that the steet pipes are quite restricted, to meet noise/power regulations & the race pipes are not atall & are stamped 'not for road use' getting caught with one is a fine and some other goodies. However he said the everyone runs the race pipes because you're paying for the power so why not get all of it & with a little extra noise too!


I know there are 2 Arrow pipes mate...

The Race and Street pipe are difrent pipes, street pipe has a smaller expancion chamer and thinner diameter tailpipe, the race pipe is more like the old street pipe was.

Both pipes got a washer welded into it, there required to do that to be alouwed to sell them over the counter, ontop of that the Race version has a Sticker on it that says Track Use Only or Not for Street Use.