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newman
05-15-2014, 05:44 AM
for now my best result looks like this http://youtu.be/ayOcSuPVAkM


i anderstend thet my 21mm carb wouldn't go like this http://youtu.be/ypKuytfDsu8 (http://vk.com/away.php?to=http%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FypKuytfDsu8)
but think it can do better then now

maybe someone can help by video?

RS_Patrick
05-15-2014, 11:33 AM
Did you try diferent reeds? probably need stiffer ones.

I am not sure if the CPI engine uses the same reeds as the Minarelli AM6 (Aprilia RS/RX50 etc) though.

newman
05-16-2014, 02:30 AM
no i didn't
here is my old reeds
251913251912
i still thinking they were fine, but for some reason i decided to change them for 0.3mm carbon, they is stiffer then old ones
251914251915
here is the valve
251916251917

RS_Patrick
05-16-2014, 03:47 AM
Its better to buy ready made reeds than cutting them your self, if you look closly at the edges of the ones you cut you see there discoloured because they delaminated (fibers came apart) wich means there not gonna last as long as ready made ones.

This would be a great set of 3 diferent thicknesses, 0.30, 0.35, and 0.40mm (by the looks of it they should fit)
http://www.easyparts.nl/product/01052712430C0/0-4019-1682-499-2034-2403-373/Membraanplaatjes_Carbon_MALOSSI_Dikte_0,30-0,35-0,40_Minarelli_AM6.html

Alternative is to buy a complete reedcage like this wich might be your best option as it looks like the rubber of the reedvalve has deformed where the reeds rested:
http://www.easyparts.nl/product/0105274235C0/0-4019-1682-499-812-2400-372/Membraan_Carbon_MALOSSI_VL6_Minarelli_AM6-_Derbi-_Gilera.html

newman
05-16-2014, 06:20 AM
the reed cage is ok, it is sealed good when i tried is blowing from mouth

i understand about cutting reeds from pieces of carbon, i wanted to try it, but for now i understand that i better be buying it like you telling.
They realy have delaminated as you saying, i tried to smooth out it with needle file, and it work's i think... i will inspect reeds soon, and probably will instal old ones.
maybe there's a way to cut them correctly? manicure scissors)

RS_Patrick
05-16-2014, 08:23 AM
With specail punch tools and specail scissors you can cut them, but even than there not as good as the ones that are factory made.

You need to look from inside the reedcage holding it up to the light to see if it seals correctly, blowing and sucking trough isnt a good way to tell if they seal properly as the presure normaly comes from the otherside and if theres a gap instead of pushing the reeds closed, it might force them open.

newman
05-16-2014, 03:08 PM
thx Patrick, i will check it!
so you thinking that problem is in reeds? maybe carb need some adjustment?
all that i can get - is advice to make less fuel, by tighten down the fuel screw

RS_Patrick
05-17-2014, 03:58 AM
Might be, what colour is your sparkplug?

What exactly is your setup (parts) on the bike?

newman
05-17-2014, 07:47 AM
add to signature config.
for now 90 main jet, needle at high end. still running reach i think, but the best result yet. so will try to lower the needle

RS_Patrick
05-17-2014, 10:05 AM
Its a Copy of a Dellorto carb? that could be part of the problem mate, most of them are pretty crudly finished and give poor throttle responce and give problems setting up.

0.30mm reeds are a bit thin for that setup, 0.35 or even 0.40mm would be better.

newman
05-18-2014, 01:09 AM
that could be part of the problem mate
i actually think that is the main problem, i'm so stupid bying it. i used all its settings for today and don't get right result.
yesterday i was riding with my friend - he has all stok cpi sm 50 - his throttle response is way better, he noted that to. and now i remember that i have this problem al the way i got this carb.


so first thing i will change carb for original one mikuni 17mm, and maybe looking for some 24mm

p.s. here is the carb. last photos comparing with original cpi carb http://vk.com/album-42062279_178039677

RS_Patrick
05-18-2014, 04:55 AM
You need a set of reeds also, as im pretty sure those 0.30mm reeds are to thin.

I dont know that carb, but doesnt look to be high quality.

Make sure you got the right mainjet, i think somewhere between 86 and 92.

You also need stiffer clutch springs to hold the power, and the stock crank also wont like the extra power and rpm to much and will break sooner or later.

newman
05-18-2014, 06:05 AM
and the stock crank also wont like the extra power and rpm to much and will break sooner or later.
sorry, i edit signature, Doppler ER1 Crankshaft installed
thank you Patrick, i will install carb this night. I order spring already, will think about reeds.

the carb is scooter-m - chinese shit. i broke down its cylinder last season (http://vk.com/album-42062279_186583901), the reason i bought it - was its price, but meanie pays twice...

Zav
05-18-2014, 09:26 AM
i actually think that is the main problem, i'm so stupid bying it. i used all its settings for today and don't get right result.
yesterday i was riding with my friend - he has all stok cpi sm 50 - his throttle response is way better, he noted that to. and now i remember that i have this problem al the way i got this carb.


so first thing i will change carb for original one mikuni 17mm, and maybe looking for some 24mm

p.s. here is the carb. last photos comparing with original cpi carb http://vk.com/album-42062279_178039677

That carb is fine you just have to polish up the slide as it's a bit stuff and put a stronger springin and it's actualy better than the real on I use this carb on my 93 rx works fine and is better throttle response than my on road rx but tha may be down to the malossi reeds I have and polini in my road rx

RS_Patrick
05-18-2014, 05:08 PM
Carb is a piece of Sh!#... that you had to polish up the throttle slide to get it to run smoothly should tell you that the rest of the carbs internals like the venturi, idle and pilot circuit channels are probably finished even worse.

Just looking at the pictures of the carb you can tell is crudly casted and hardly finished.

Still should work better than a Stock carb though, but its no match for a real DelLorto 21mm, especaily a Black edition or one from Polini or Malossi (wich are Original delorto carbs but with a finer finishing)

newman
05-19-2014, 04:05 AM
yeah, that carb is a piece of shit!
today i ride my original mikuni 16mm, and it run much better from the first instal!!! still have to manage jets...

i have polished everything i can on that scooter-m just when i bought it...

newman
05-19-2014, 04:12 AM
You need to look from inside the reedcage holding it up to the light to see if it seals correctly
and Patrick you're so right about reedcage !252292252293

the reeds that i cut is pretty good condition, no damages 252294252295

RS_Patrick
05-19-2014, 04:33 AM
Your bike has a Mikuni 16mm from the factory? Nice, keep in mind though that Mikuni uses a difrent size rating than other brands for the Jet's.

Zav
05-19-2014, 09:22 AM
Your bike has a Mikuni 16mm from the factory? Nice, keep in mind though that Mikuni uses a difrent size rating than other brands for the Jet's.

all cpi wk and all that what use am6 copys come with them :bangwall:

RS_Patrick
05-19-2014, 11:31 AM
all cpi wk and all that what use am6 copys come with them :bangwall:

Keeway, Beeline and CPI are all one and the same mate, thats why.

Im actualy glad i dont know they got Mikuni carbs under there :p: i dont want anything to do with them.
If someone has one, i help them as good as i can on here, but im not gonna work on them in reall life, heard to much crap about the engines (dutch/Benelux distributor stopt after a short while with them because of the problems they had with them)

Zav
05-19-2014, 12:05 PM
I actually like the. Specialy the side cases look more modern but oh well

RS_Patrick
05-19-2014, 12:17 PM
I reall like the look of the bike also, but how it looks doesnt tell you much about build quality.

newman
05-20-2014, 02:56 AM
sorry, are you talking about cpi quality? if so - i can tell you that it is very good! i'm selling chinese and taiwanese scooters and bikes in Ukraine, and can tell, that no one of them can match with my cpi by quality =)

apriliamandan
05-20-2014, 04:21 AM
CPI/WK build quality is brilliant and the Mikuni 16mm carbs with auto choke are also great, real easy to tune.

Its a cool bike!

252406

RS_Patrick
05-20-2014, 05:38 AM
The engines are crap as far as im concerned... one example is they cast pins/rods from the engine casing instead of using steel pins/rods that bolt into the crankcase as someone found out here on the forum ;)

That the reedcage rubber looks like that also doesnt show any quality, clearly can see on yours where the reeds hit the the rubber its compressed.

I would rather have seen a reall AM6 engine in there.

apriliamandan
05-20-2014, 08:25 AM
The engines are crap as far as im concerned... one example is they cast pins/rods from the engine casing instead of using steel pins/rods that bolt into the crankcase as someone found out here on the forum ;)

That the reedcage rubber looks like that also doesnt show any quality, clearly can see on yours where the reeds hit the the rubber its compressed.

I would rather have seen a reall AM6 engine in there.


Our WK/CPI bike engines aren't crap! They both have genuine am6 race cranks and 70cc big bores and many other genuine am6 parts fitted. ;)

newman
05-20-2014, 08:26 AM
things that you saying Patrick, is insignificant considering price of bike :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Zav
05-20-2014, 09:39 AM
Well it is as I brought a rx50 what I've not had a single problem with for 200 with a real am6 engine yeah the cosmetics were bit crap but you can buy a very good condition rx50 and mx50 for 800

RS_Patrick
05-20-2014, 02:56 PM
Our WK/CPI bike engines aren't crap! They both have genuine am6 race cranks and 70cc big bores and many other genuine am6 parts fitted. ;)

Maybe you forget about this than: http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?287677-Tiny-problem-after-rebuilding-Needed-help

I dont know what they cost over there but for example a Derbi Senda is only 250 euro's more over here... and is a much better quality bike.


But lets get back on topic ok?

Its running better with the Original carburator now right?

apriliamandan
05-20-2014, 04:05 PM
Maybe you forget about this than: http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?287677-Tiny-problem-after-rebuilding-Needed-help

I dont know what they cost over there but for example a Derbi Senda is only 250 euro's more over here... and is a much better quality bike.


But lets get back on topic ok?

Its running better with the Original carburator now right?

I don't find Aprilia or Derbi better quality bikes. Thats my experience anyway.

newman
05-21-2014, 07:55 AM
Its running better with the Original carburator now right?

it's running better, but i have to find right main jet. now installed 1,4 mm main jet (140) but it running rich, 100 - is lean... and i have to find some other numbers were to buy.

apriliamandan
05-21-2014, 08:25 AM
it's running better, but i have to find right main jet. now installed 1,4 mm main jet (140) but it running rich, 100 - is lean... and i have to find some other numbers were to buy.


What is your set-up? Those jets are very large for the stock Mikuni 16mm carburettor. Both of our big bored and piped AM6 bikes with stock 16mm Mikuni are running between 84-86 jets.

Sorry, just seen your signature, those jets must be way to large!

newman
05-21-2014, 09:19 AM
it's strange to me to.
i installed 90 first, then 95 and it run only idle and middle range, and engine was stalled every time i get throttle full open.

apriliamandan
05-21-2014, 09:38 AM
it's strange to me to.
i installed 90 first, then 95 and it run only idle and middle range, and engine was stalled every time i get throttle full open.

Very odd that is. Have you tried mid 80's jets?

RS_Patrick
05-21-2014, 09:57 AM
it's running better, but i have to find right main jet. now installed 1,4 mm main jet (140) but it running rich, 100 - is lean... and i have to find some other numbers were to buy.

A Mikuni 140 mainjet is not 1.4mm... thats what i warned you about on the other page mate...

Mikuni uses a difrent scale from all the other brands, DelLorto jets are rated in .00 mm, but Mikuni has something tpo do with flow.

newman
05-21-2014, 01:32 PM
A Mikuni 140 mainjet is not 1.4mm... thats what i warned you about on the other page mate...

Mikuni uses a difrent scale from all the other brands, DelLorto jets are rated in .00 mm, but Mikuni has something tpo do with flow.

yeah i got that.


95 mark mikuni jet don't equally 95 mark on dellorto, ok. So when you saying:




Make sure you got the right mainjet, i think somewhere between 86 and 92.


you actually mean 86-92 mikuni size, or 0.86-0.92mm hole?
because that's why i decided about jet size252537252538252539

RS_Patrick
05-21-2014, 03:08 PM
The mainjet in the picture is a DelLorto mainjet, so its size is in metric.

But yeah with the 86 to 92 i ment a DelLorto mainjet, so that would be 0.86mm to 0.92mm

I would advice against drilling up a mainjet, because later on it might lead to confusion about its size, so only use it as a last resort and i sugest you make the size on the mainjet unreadable to avoid confusion later.

apriliamandan
05-21-2014, 03:35 PM
I'd buy a set of 6mm Dellorto jets from 80 to 90 to try. Like I say, similar set up on our CPI's, one runs an 84, the other runs an 86.

RS_Patrick
05-21-2014, 07:15 PM
I'd buy a set of 6mm Dellorto jets from 80 to 90 to try. Like I say, similar set up on our CPI's, one runs an 84, the other runs an 86.

But hese got a Mikuni Carburator... you cant just go swapping jets out for one from a difrent carb, the dimentions and shape are not gonna be exactly the same, and yeah, just a few .100mm difrence in the hight of the head and lenght of the threading is a big difrence in for the carb setup.

apriliamandan
05-22-2014, 03:45 AM
We have Dellorto jets in the Mikuni carbs, running spot on!

RS_Patrick
05-22-2014, 07:00 AM
Personaly i wouldnt do that, but if it works for you, there probably not much difrent from the Original jet that was in there than.

newman
05-26-2014, 03:26 AM
The mainjet in the picture is a DelLorto mainjet, so its size is in metric.

i have only 3 jets for now, one of them came with my mikuni, so i pretty sure it is original, all 3 jets are the same by height. i scratched the later of jets that was chenged


But yeah with the 86 to 92 i ment a DelLorto mainjet, so that would be 0.86mm to 0.92mm.

i can't understand, sorry.
i tried 0.9mm (metric) that on photo, and it was pretty small - engine was stalled in full throttle open. i tried 100mm (metric) and have the same result. now running 140mm (metric) - and it is pretty big. so for now i am betwen 100 to 140mm

newman
06-08-2014, 02:52 PM
hi all
so two days ago i finally get my bike with great performance!
installed 130 main jet (metric) and gain good accelerating even on 6 gear. Also get 135 jet to try.
hope i can shot some video at time
p.s. i forgot to report, i tried 120s main jet all the time before 130s, and was riding with one hole closed in air box, so it was much of air.

RS_Patrick
06-09-2014, 06:32 AM
Do you have a Pod/open airfilter? or the Stock Airfilter box?

newman
06-09-2014, 07:24 AM
it's stock box, with two huge holes

254316254317254318

RS_Patrick
06-10-2014, 11:24 AM
Oh, ok :(

That turns it basicly into a shielded podfilter... that would explain why you need such a big mainjet.

newman
06-10-2014, 02:44 PM
wow... what does it means?

RS_Patrick
06-11-2014, 07:06 AM
Its letting it just as much air as a normal open podfilter would with those huge holes cut into the airbox... Just that its a bit better shielded against rain/water/dirt being trown up from the street.

newman
06-11-2014, 01:00 PM
i'm thinking about shelter for it

newman
07-11-2014, 11:01 AM
Hi all, it's been awhile :)
I have great news, my moped finally get all the power i purchased for him))))
All the time installing new performance parts - i was getting poor feedback, so recently i install the next one - and it was commutator for cub engine with no rpm limit, so from that time i like bought new bike)))) such a big difference!
Now my rpms go far from 10800 they were limited on the move, and i obtain +13 km/h with 13\54 sprockets!!!
So i telling to everyone that it is first thing to do even on stock 50cc
piks and video
https://vk.com/cpi_sm_50?w=wall-42062279_2711%2Fall

newman
08-03-2014, 10:29 AM
hi all
got some news, i found two holes in my intake, one before and another after carb. So there was pretty air leak, that's why i got 130 main jet. So now i installed 120 main jet, and it running good!