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hyokoon
08-20-2013, 01:38 AM
Hi all,

Last week, I went to a racing circuit and the trainer told me that they only use the clutch when starting. After that, they don't use the clutch when shift up and down. They said that it's faster when u shift up and safer when u shift down.

Anyone has experience on this one, is there any harmful effect to the engine?

Micah / AF1 Racing
08-20-2013, 07:38 AM
Until you are really fucking good at riding your bike at track pace while doing seamless blipped throttle downshifts that you can hear but not feel, keep using the clutch for downshifting! Up shifting without clutch becomes second nature very quickly, I have not really used clutches for up shifting in two decades now.

TheBuilder
08-21-2013, 06:09 PM
Clutchless shifting once figured out is the only way you will go when you get good at it. Blipping the throttle while up shifting is smother and quicker. However you typically need to be under moderate to heavy acceleration to do it. Other wise just use the clutch. Clutchless down shifting isn't really needed unless your a pretty aggressive rider or at the track. Also what I've found is that downshifting likes higher engine revs when you do it.

weasel221
08-21-2013, 06:26 PM
second nature on a dirtbike!! up AND down shifts...which transfers nicely to the street...

IJS...

hyokoon
08-21-2013, 08:32 PM
I think I don't need up shifting without clutch. However, I would like to do that when down shifting. I think in emergency brake, u shouldn't put the engine in neutral when u pull the clutch, also it's faster to get the engine brake. Is it reasonable?

Cunningstunter
08-21-2013, 08:53 PM
I think I don't need up shifting without clutch. However, I would like to do that when down shifting. I think in emergency brake, u shouldn't put the engine in neutral when u pull the clutch, also it's faster to get the engine brake. Is it reasonable?


Kind of backwards way of thinking about it.

Firstly - bike gearboxes being sequential have no issues when clutchless upshifting, further more it's good practice to learn both up and down shifts with no clutch cause one day you might lose a clutch cable and have to get home to repair...

For track use - no clutch for upshifts - is definately faster/smoother and it's a no brainer to learn. Personally, I tend to use the clutch on the street a bit more at lower speeds or 1st to 2nd but at the track track or on my dirt bike the clutch is rarely used between (UP) gears.

Down shifts - if you don't have a slipper clutch then I personally use it a fair bit. ALong with throttle blipping it stops the rear from chattering or locking up.
If you have a slipper clutch then you can delete the throttle blips but (even with a slipper on my bike) I still use the clutch almost in a 'trail braking' method to feed it back smoothly rather than just dumping it altogether.

As far as 'emergency braking' (or hard track riding) since 95% of braking is done by the front and once the weight transfers you have bugger all traction on the rear to either brake or use engine braking effectively...trying to find neutral in an emergency situation is not realistic and in many situations you'll be better of swerving or getting on the gas to get out of trouble VS trying to pull up.....this is also true if you "always have an option out" if you're anticipating the traffic/situation then you won't get into these situations in the first place...

TheBuilder
08-21-2013, 09:18 PM
@ Cunningstunter. That pretty much sums it up. :plus:

Colorado S14
08-22-2013, 04:11 PM
I upshift all the time with no clutch, it is lots of fun on the street giving it full throttle up to about 7500rpm and a quick clutchless upshift. I always clutch down, and if you watch any of the MotoGP or WSBK riders they typically do too, you just have more control over that power transfer when you need to keep the bike stable under braking.

keithc
09-06-2013, 02:04 AM
I use clutch less gear changes both up and down the box, apart from between 1st and 2nd and have done for many years. If done properly its a lot smoother and on the down change tends to minimise the amount of `chattering' from the back wheel as the engine/road speed has to be pretty much matched for the change to work unless your really brutal with it.

Like other have said its also useful to get practice at this so you can get home if eh clutch operation system fails (cable of hydraulic).

And if you want a bike to perfect his on, get a late 1970's Ducati Darmah 900. I had one of these in 1979 and if the clutch was used a lot in a short period of time it used to go out of adjustment so I had two choices. 1 Learn clutch less gear changes, 2 Stop regularly in traffic to adjust the clutch.
And BTW I use clutch less gear changes on all of my bikes, even the 1500 Goldwing which has a reputation of having a very clunky gear change.

Keith C