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View Full Version : Looking at a 2012 DD1200 and have a few questions



Fast Jimmy
06-24-2013, 09:17 PM
I have been working on a deal on a 2012 DD1200 and we are about $500 apart at this point.

I bought my first bike about 46 years ago and have had 'several' since that one but have never owned an Aprilia.

Currently I only have four bikes, a 2007 Ducati ST3, a 2007 Suzuki DRZ400SM, a 1985 Honda VF1100S (V65 Sabre) and a 1973 Triumph T100R (Daytona).

As I mentioned I am about $500 off on a trade for the Duc and I have a number of guys that will take the SM if I say the word.

Anyone have any knowledge as to why Aprilia stopped US import of the DD1200 after only two years?
Down the road I don't imagine that's going to help resale any.

Also, I have read almost every post on the DD1200s here on the forum as well as articles on them elsewhere.

Anyone care to share any known common issues with them.

It seems that some have mapping issues, poor fuel economy, and fuel tank issues.

The DRZ400SM is a blast in the southern middle Tennessee twisty roads I live on. It's light weight makes it really nimble but it's just short on power.

I've had a lot of muscle & sport bikes so the DD1200's 130 claimed HP doesn't give me any cause for alarm but it's almost 500 pounds makes me wonder how it can possibly be as nimble as Aprilia ad writers claim it to be.

I looked at a Ducati Hyper 1100 a few years back but wasn't ready to give up the ST3 yet.

My son, who will be 47 next month and has been riding since he was about six added a new Ducati Hyper 821 to his stable last month and trailered it out to Aspen for a week. He's really impressed with it. It's about 110 pounds lighter than the DD1200 and has a little better HP / Weight ratio. I may put some miles on it and see how I like it but to me the DD1200 is a far better looking bike.

Anyway, I would greatly appreciate any input from those of you who have spent some tome on a DD1200.

Thanks

FJ

Paul W
06-25-2013, 04:54 AM
I just traded a ducati s2r1000 on the DD and I've had it about a week, so not long. Only past 400 km on the way home last night but didn't get a chance to really open her up, but I've ridden other ones and have, so I know the power they have. Power wise it shits all over the duc. whilst the duc handled better, or more accurately differently, you can easily punt along at a great pace, probably as fast as theduc when I get used to it. Brakes are terrific. Sound is raucous with the arrows with baffles removed (as it crosses 4k rpm on decel it makes heaps of gurles and noise, love it).
Bad things....fuel economy suxs. First tank was well over 8 litres per 100 km. But hey it's for fun not practicality so meh. Fuelling isn't perfect but still better then the duc ever was, no surging at 4k rpm.
But main thing is the manic gigling I keep finding that I'm doing when riding the bike. That is why I bought it.

Rebelyell
06-25-2013, 04:43 PM
I m looking for one of these myself.I think bike makers overindulge to the customer.The consumer wants this n that but doesnt really have a pot to piss in.mfg brings bike to showroom where it sits and doesnt sell n bing boom thats it for that model.It dont help alot of us dont have the disposable income we once had.ya can thank the fuckhead bankers uncle sam and the morons that lived waay over there heads and knew it but didnt care.

u00bgg2
06-25-2013, 05:59 PM
Even after some of the issues I have had I must admit I would purchase it again. I have owned several ducat is and I to came of a supermoto but wanted a little more. The support I have found to be spotty which is my single biggest long term concern. As for owning the bike, it is a scream, and I would personally say it is a very under rated bike.

Rebelyell
06-25-2013, 06:21 PM
Not only is this bike bad on the cool n badass factor its even rarer then those ringy dingy ducatis:D

Fast Jimmy
06-27-2013, 11:30 AM
Thanks to those who shared their ownership experiences. I appreciate your input.
We are currently stalled $534 apart and neither seems willing to budge.

I'm also talking with a dealer on a 2013 Ducati HyperMotard 821.

Thanks again for your input.

FJ

Rebelyell
06-27-2013, 02:01 PM
I emailed extreme powersports in mchenry maryland but so far havent heard back from them.beats the hell out of me.

Paul W
06-28-2013, 02:09 AM
Thanks to those who shared their ownership experiences. I appreciate your input.
We are currently stalled $534 apart and neither seems willing to budge.

I'm also talking with a dealer on a 2013 Ducati HyperMotard 821.

Thanks again for your input.

FJ

I think the total cost of ownership between the two bikes will definitely cover $500. The ducati has to be serviced more, and those service costs will be more expensive then the DD. Further, if you deal well you can get the arrow pipes on the DD, but with the duc you'll need pipes, ECU and airbox changes, which adds up to a lot, lot more then just some cans.
That was one of the things that helped swing me to the DD over another Duc (my last three bikes have been ducatis); the fact that 90% of duc owners will change their pipes over, but ducati don't allow for this with their ecu setup, so you spend a lot, lot more getting over the fueling issues you create with putting pipes on it (generally running way too lean).
$0.02

Fast Jimmy
06-28-2013, 11:16 AM
Paul,
Thanks again for your input.

Service costs are one indeed thing that I have considered on the Aprilia.

Ducati ownership can get expensive, especially if you have to take it to a dealer. I have serviced my bikes for for the last 40+ years but I still have to buy the parts. I still haven't gotten a logical answer as to why a cam belt will last for years on a car but on a Duc it MUST be replaced every two years.

I haven't checked on other Ducs but the 821 Hyper has some pretty reasonable service intervals. I haven't been able to find if they still have that frequent belt change though.

I just spoke with both the Ducati & Aprilia dealers.
First service on the DD1200 is $165 + parts and the 821 Hyper is $172 + parts.

Service intervals on the DD are 10,000 km

821 Hyper valve service intervals are 30,000 km. Belts are only replaced at these intervals.


It may be different in your area but around here the resale value of a Ducati is so much greater than an Aprilia that any service savings would be obliterated if I sold or traded it. At my age it's probably not a concern for me but may be for my heirs.

Truthfully, it's a difficult decision for me between the two. The 821 Hyper is about $2,000 more has ABS & TC, neither of which mean squat to me. I have gotten by for 46+ years on dozens of bikes without either so that's a non-issue with me although the slipper clutch is a nice feature.
I personally like the appearance of the DD1200 more but the weight and features of the Hyper are alluring also.

I'm one of that 10% that leave their exhaust system stock. (Perhaps that's because I have one cochlear implant and will get another one in the fall and so the aftermarket exhaust sound doesn't mean anything to me.)

Thanks again
FJ

Paul W
06-29-2013, 02:16 AM
No worries FJ and good luck, altho it sounds like you've made your decision already....
Things in Oz are a tad different with service costs; the ducati on a major is somewhere between $800 and $1200, depending on how rich you look, and as far as I know are every 7500 km. The Aprilia won't be cheap, but will be under this, and only needs it every 10000km which is a difference for me.
Weight; I know it sounds heavy, and on paper it really is. Weight has always been important to me, and that has always been part of my love for Ducatis. However the DD doesn't feel over 200kg.
Power; the DD will just shit all over the Hyper. I took the 1100 monster out as a comparison (I rode as many bikes as I could before making my decision) and the monster felt well underpowered compared to a lot of the current bikes out there. I was keen on old 1100 hyper, but couldn't find one at a dealer, hence took the monster as it's a close comparison; after the DD and the SMR990 the duke felt old, and more importantly lacking in character engine wise (and sound).
Mate, you sound mentally like you've made your decision, and in reality they are both cracking bikes that'd make anyone happy, so good luck with your purchase and I hope it brings smiles to your dial!

Fast Jimmy
07-07-2013, 11:51 AM
Paul & All;
Just a brief update on my search for a new bike.

I haven't gotten anything new yet. However, I sold my 2007 Ducati ST3 Wednesday and my 2007 Suzuki DR-Z400SM yesterday afternoon. Consequently I won't have to deal with the trade in issue I previously had with the Duc.

I have narrowed down their replacement to four bikes and if things go well I will look at, ride, and buy one in the next week or so.

I really like the looks of the DD1200 and the discount that I can get on one is pretty enticing. One of my main concerns is why they discontinued them in the US and what their potential resale might be a few years down the road. The weight is also somewhat of a concern but I'v had some pretty heavy bikes in my 65 years that the weight seems to "drop off" on once you get them above a walking speed.

I have read of some who were dissatisfied with the rear brake on their DDs (both 750 & 1200) but can't get any real hard comments on that. I was never satisfied with the rear brake on my ST3 and replaced the pads, vacuum bled the lines, and adjusted the linkage. It helped but it never became equal to the rear brake on one of my Asian sport bikes.

The dealer who has the DD1200 also has two of the other bikes on my short list. Now that I don't have any trade-in he is more motivated to work with me and is getting me the final OTD price on each of them Monday. As I mentioned I hope to be able to take them for a ride next week.

I don't know about other countries but here in the states you usually can't get much of a deal on a Ducati. I did manage to get a little off on the 821 Hyper but nothing like I can get on other bikes. The 821 Hyper is the most advance (tech wise) of any of them and also the most expensive. As far as how it would fair against a DD1200 the hp / pound ratio is real close. (Ducati - 4.0 Pounds per HP; DD1200 - 3.8 Pounds per HP). In the real world the DD1200 probably would have a (slight??) acceleration advantage, especially at 50+ MPH roll on due to its greater torque but I suspect that on really twisty roads (with equally talented riders) the Ducati would have the upper hand due to its 60 pound lighter weight. Service intervals on the 821 are actually longer than on the DD1200 (but not by much). But to me the DD1200 is a better looking bike.

At 65+ this will probably be my last new bike purchase so I want to make as sure as I can that whatever I buy it will be pleasing down the road.

I've tried to do as much research but the final decision will be in the overall ride experience.

Thanks again to all for their input.

FJ

lanter
07-07-2013, 12:13 PM
Fast Jimmy, my buddy has the new street fighter and it is an awesome looking bike. But, he couldn't keep up with me anywhere. I think he's a better rider then I am too. We then switched bikes and his first comment was "This bike feels light!" Funny thing is he had no idea how heavy the DD was. You really have to test ride a properly fueled DD1200. Its tough to beat down low and is very stable at high speed.

Fast Jimmy
07-07-2013, 02:29 PM
Lanter;
Thanks for the input.

It is surprising that your friend's SF couldn't keep up with your DD1200 anywhere.
With the advantage of a few HP and 55+ less pounds it should have been otherwise, at least on paper. Just goes to show that the real world isn't always confined to paper stats.

However, sheer speed performance is not as important to me as nimbleness in the twisties. I live out in the country in southern middle Tennessee USA and at the end of my 1/4 mile down my drive the fun starts with miles and miles of curvy back-roads. The DR-Z400SM that I sold yesterday was basically stock with the exception of air box and jetting changes. If I chose my roads I could keep up / keep ahead of bikes with far more horsepower. The 2007 ST3 I sold on Wednesday, like most Ducs, was a real curve carver. However, and I want to stress that I had to pick my roads, there were sections of my normal riding 'range' that I could get through faster on the SM.

After 46+ years of bikes I know that there is no real 'one bike does it all' so I have to decide what is the best compromise for my riding.

Shortly after I bought the ST3 my wife bought a Chrysler Crossfire Roadster Limited. Whenever I have a sunny afternoon free she wants to go for a car ride so the ST3 didn't get ridden much.

I can slip away for an hour or two much easier than several hours or even a full day so a SM bike generally covers my riding 'needs" (???).

I do have the 1985 VF1100S (V65 Sabre) when I want to unleash some real brute power (well for its day anyway) :burnout:.

Like you say only a good test ride will show the real world potential of each bike.

Thanks again

FJ

lanter
07-07-2013, 03:52 PM
Look at actual dyno's of the new street fighter and torque is way down from DD1200 and about 10hp. And don't get me wrong, the SF is badass and looks absolutely killer in person.

By the way the SF does handle great! And if his suspension was set up properly, even better. On the interstate, at higher speeds the SF wasn't as stable. Probably due to the DDs fatass! :)

Fast Jimmy
07-07-2013, 04:09 PM
Lanter;
Where can a guy look at some actual dyno figures?
Thanks
FJ

Fast Jimmy
07-11-2013, 11:48 PM
I had planned to go Tuesday to look at and ride some of the bikes on my short list in order to narrow it down and get ready to make the purchase.

I had recently sold my 2007 Ducati ST3 and my 2007 Suzuki DR-Z400SM and wanted to replace both of them with one bike that was closer to the Super Moto but with more power.

As one local dealer had three of the bikes on the list I started with him. They have about an eleven mile test ride loop that consists of some interstate, some twisties, and some city roads.

The first bike I rode was the 2013 KTM 690 Duke while they serviced the 2012 DD1200.
The KTM is a fantastic bike for my type of riding. It is amazingly light and with a 67 HP 690 cc single pretty responsive. I felt the brakes and suspension were very good. It was really uncanny to be able to ride a 690cc single at freeway speeds and see clearly in the rear view mirror. This bike would have no doubt been up to the riding tasks I was looking to subject it to. Other than its pretty steep price I couldnít find any real faults with it. Taking off the seat to change modes seems a little behind times though that certainly wouldnít have been a cause to not buy it.

Next up was the 2012 DD1200.When I sat on this bike in the showroom I didnít feel comfortable on it. To me it seemed top heavy and awkward. It was very easy to feel that it was about 150 pounds heavier than the KTM Duke. On the 11 mile test loop it didnít endear itself to me anymore than it did on the showroom. In my 46+ years of riding I have had a number of muscle and sport bikes. Power wise the DD1200 certainly ranks up there with them but I was looking for a whole package and not just brute power. As much as I wanted to like the bike, its 130 hp and its $2,000+ discount I knew I would not be happy with it.

By the time I got back from the test ride on the 2012 DD1200 they had service one of the 2014 DD750s they got in last week (the red one at my request). Just sitting on it on the showroom floor it felt much lighter than the DD1200 when leaning from side to side. On the 11 mile test ride the perceived greater lightness became even more pronounced. I greatly enjoyed the ride, much more so than the DD1200 ride. I havenít looked at any dyno charts so I certainly canít say but it seemed to me that the DD750 had more useable torque in the 3-4 thousand RPM range.

I had intended to just Ďlook atí and Ďrideí those three and then check out the 2013 Ducati 821 Hyper. However, my wife mentioned that she had picked up the check book. We went for lunch and I was going to give the KTM and the DD750 another ride in their sport modes. As the plate was still on the DD750 I took it first. After the interstate section when I was on the twisty section I knew there was no use in putting anymore miles on the KTM.

He gave me a little over $500 off on the 2014 DD750 and with its $2,000 discount the DD1200 was about $500 more. As I was considering the Ducati 821 Hyper which is about $3,000 more the cost of the Aprilias wasnít a real consideration. At 65 I doubt if I will buy another new bike so I wanted to make sure that whatever I bought would give me the fun factor I was looking for. Truthfully, if both bikes had been priced the same or even if the DD750 had been $500 more I would have still bought the DD750.


There is absolutely no doubt that the DD1200 has much more power and for those who want that extra power (and the weight that comes with it) then it is certainly a fine bike for them. Likewise there is no doubt that the DD750 is FOR ME a much more enjoyable bike to ride bike. To me the DD750 did not seem to be about 100 pounds heavier than the KTM and only about 50 pounds lighter than the DD1200.

It usually takes me some miles to get in synch with a new bike but I found myself getting there on the way home. Weíve had some torrential rains and Iíve only got about 150 miles on it thus far so itís much too early to form solid opinions. However, at this point Iíd have to say that itís definitely up there with the most fun street bikes I have ever owned, even on a one hand list.

Thanks again to all those who offered input. I did get an Aprilia Dorsoduro, just not a 1200.
FJ

lanter
07-12-2013, 02:33 AM
Fast Jimmy FYI I've had both the 750 DD and now the 1200 DD. The 1200 stomps the 750 in every way except the extra weight. Especially down low. The DD1200 even has more torque down low then the Touno V4, up till 9500 rpm. But the touno will will really pour it on from there! I suspect the 1200 you drove had less then 625 miles on it, because the ECU will not give full power until past that point. But, you can't go wrong with the 750! Its a brilliant bike and most reliable bike I've ever owned. :)

rickny
07-12-2013, 04:24 AM
Welcome, and congratulations on a very good choice of bike. A must have, is The "fatduc". the literally transform injection to almost perfectly. read this:

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?249450-Potential-custom-tuning-solution
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?267779-Motocorasaro-o2-optimiser-The-improved-FatDuc-alternative

My friend owns a 1200, and I must say (as you) the 750 is a much more enjoyable bike.

//R

Paul W
07-12-2013, 08:02 PM
Congrats Fast Jimmy! Always good to have a new toy.

vladp
07-20-2013, 11:35 AM
By the time I got back from the test ride on the 2012 DD1200 they had service one of the 2014 DD750s they got in last week (the red one at my request). Just sitting on it on the showroom floor it felt much lighter than the DD1200 when leaning from side to side. On the 11 mile test ride the perceived greater lightness became even more pronounced. I greatly enjoyed the ride, much more so than the DD1200 ride. I haven’t looked at any dyno charts so I certainly can’t say but it seemed to me that the DD750 had more useable torque in the 3-4 thousand RPM range.



I find this part really surprising. I just traded 750 for 1200 and its completely at odds with my experience. I loved the 750 but I found it really was not a happy engine at anything below 4k especially from stock. Rough running and inconsistent. Fatduc improved things somewhat but one of the main reasons I traded for 1200 was that I always had to screw the nuts out of it to get it going anywhere.

Fast Jimmy
07-21-2013, 08:35 PM
vladp;
Lanter pointed out to me that actual dyno figures show that the DD1200 has more torque than the 750 at all ranges so obviously I was in error about the torque and it would appear that it was just an anomaly on these two specific bikes, but I wasn't in error about the extra weight of the 1200.

Granted that an eleven mile ride won't give a total picture of a bike's characteristics, more like a snapshot. However, after 47+ years of riding and ownership of a couple dozen bikes I can get a pretty good feel for what the potential is in that distance, especially when the test loop was as varied as it was.

Other commitments have prevented me from getting to ride the bike as much as I would have liked to by this time and I have only put about 330 miles on it thus far and I am VERY pleased with the bike and enjoy it more each time I ride it.

At this stage in my life it is the perfect bike for what I want for my type of riding. It's fun and for me that's what I want in a bike.

I never meant to imply that the DD 750 was a better choice than the DD 1200 for everyone. Individual bikers are different and have different requirements. For me it was really not a choice between the two after sitting on and then riding both of them and with every mile I put on the bike the validity of that decision, for me, is reinforced.

There was a time in my bike life that I wouldn't have given a 750 a second glance. However, now I ride solely for my own enjoyment with no real desire to have the most powerful and fastest bike. If I were still in that mode I probably wouldn't have even looked at an Aprilia to begin with.

FJ

lanter
07-21-2013, 09:47 PM
Fast Jimmy, there is no better or worst! Only what we personally like. The 750 is a brilliant bike and my old 750 was the most reliable bike I've owned. Good luck with the Dorso :)

vladp
07-22-2013, 01:41 AM
I didn't say that 750 is any way inferior to 1200. I think 750 is a great bike, especially the factory which I had. The weight difference on 1200 is definitely noticeable though I think 1200 carries the weight quite well and neither is what you would call light. I was commenting specifically on the rideability in 3k-4k rpm range. Above 4k mine was a great responsive engine. Below 4k it was sluggish, surging and inconsistent especially without fatduc. I don't regret trading for 1200 but its obviously just a personal preference.

jstuntlocke
08-26-2013, 07:45 PM
Other commitments have prevented me from getting to ride the bike as much as I would have liked to by this time and I have only put about 330 miles on it thus far and I am VERY pleased with the bike and enjoy it more each time I ride it.

At this stage in my life it is the perfect bike for what I want for my type of riding. It's fun and for me that's what I want in a bike.



FJ

Good deal!
I've enjoyed reading through your decision making process in this thread. Only person that needs to be happy with your choice ultimately is you!

Where are you at in middle Tn? I am in Nashville area... I can give you my contact info if you'd like to meet up and get out for a ride.

Congrats on the new bike!

Fast Jimmy
08-31-2013, 12:16 PM
Jason,
I sent a PM with my contact info.
I'm about 70 miles due south of Nashville just off I65.
There are some really great twisty roads in the area if you can slip away sometime.
I finally got past the 1,000 mile mark a few days ago with a little 115+ mile jaunt through Petersburg - Lynchburg - Shelbyville. Roads almost deserted in the weekday afternoons.

FJ

cccolin
09-02-2013, 04:29 PM
before I saw you went with the 750 i was going to say, if you want a SM style sportbike with a great power to weight ratio, wait for the KTM 1290 SD

Fast Jimmy
09-02-2013, 10:01 PM
before I saw you went with the 750 i was going to say, if you want a SM style sportbike with a great power to weight ratio, wait for the KTM 1290 SD

If it ever made it into production it would be WAY more dollar$$$ than I would spend on a bike this late in life.
I'll leave them to you younger bikers.
FJ

keithc
09-06-2013, 02:18 AM
Fast Jimmy

I have now covered 24,500 miles on my 750 DD and its a great bike. Your comparrison between teh Ducati and the DD is a bit misinformed though. The 10000 kms service for the DD only includes inspections only and no replacement parts are required, not even engine oil and filter. Oil changes and valve clearances etc are done every 20,000 kms

Enjoy your 750 DD it really is a great bike.

As for its short availability of the 1200 model, Aprilia have said that they dropped the model in Europe as it was to close tot eh new Caponord 1200. Many parts are shared between these bikes including engine and frame so parts availability should not be a problem in the future.

As fort the new KTM 1290, what a bike that is, had a test ride last week and it was awesome (130 mph and still pulling hard), but for me the engine power was just to much of a threat to my driving license :)


Keith C

Fast Jimmy
09-06-2013, 09:34 PM
Keith C;
At only about 1,150 miles I've got a lit of catching up to do before I even get close to your mileage.
I hope my bike turns out to be as trouble free as yours has been.

I went back an re-read my older posts and was in error on the DD 1200 valve service intervals.

What KTM 1290 were you able to ride? I notice on the KTM GB web site it doesn't list any 1290 bikes available there either.

In the US we don't get near the offering of KTM models as you do. Our biggest Duke is the 690 and and we don't have any SM models available to us.

If we would have had the 990 Duke or the 990 SM offered I would most likely have bought one of them. I really liked the 680 Duke but wanted something bigger.

FJ

RATMOUL
02-23-2016, 01:52 PM
Lanter;
Thanks for the input.

It is surprising that your friend's SF couldn't keep up with your DD1200 anywhere.
With the advantage of a few HP and 55+ less pounds it should have been otherwise, at least on paper. Just goes to show that the real world isn't always confined to paper stats.

However, sheer speed performance is not as important to me as nimbleness in the twisties. I live out in the country in southern middle Tennessee USA and at the end of my 1/4 mile down my drive the fun starts with miles and miles of curvy back-roads. The DR-Z400SM that I sold yesterday was basically stock with the exception of air box and jetting changes. If I chose my roads I could keep up / keep ahead of bikes with far more horsepower. The 2007 ST3 I sold on Wednesday, like most Ducs, was a real curve carver. However, and I want to stress that I had to pick my roads, there were sections of my normal riding 'range' that I could get through faster on the SM.

After 46+ years of bikes I know that there is no real 'one bike does it all' so I have to decide what is the best compromise for my riding.

Shortly after I bought the ST3 my wife bought a Chrysler Crossfire Roadster Limited. Whenever I have a sunny afternoon free she wants to go for a car ride so the ST3 didn't get ridden much.

I can slip away for an hour or two much easier than several hours or even a full day so a SM bike generally covers my riding 'needs" (???).

I do have the 1985 VF1100S (V65 Sabre) when I want to unleash some real brute power (well for its day anyway) :burnout:.

Like you say only a good test ride will show the real world potential of each bike.

Thanks again

FJ

Hey Fast Jimmy. So what did you end up going with? I am another long time enthusiast (some say old fat bastard) and just got a very nice 2011 DD1200. I have only been out for a couple of quick zooms on the DD but have to say that I am very impressed all around. I too live right on a beautiful stretch of twisty road and have may miles of excellent and fun biking roads close by. The DD feels like a big dirtbike to me with crazy instantaneous power, beautiful sound and great suspension and brakes. I feel the design and fit and finish are excellent also. I don't think I will ever get tired of looking at it.
I also have a Cagiva Gran Canyon 900 (Ducati engine) an old hotrod 85 Vmax with a PCW 1500 HO engine, as well as an ATK 605 Dualsport, so it would seem we have walked a similar path, bike wise. I also have a cluster of early Husqvarna dirtbikes, as well as some old Honda SL's awaiting a restore.
The rareness of the Dorsoduro especially in the 1200 version, is actually a plus to me. We also have an excellent Aprilia dealer in Chilliwack Motorcycles locally so it is no harder to get service here than it is a Honda or a Harley. All in all I could not be happier with my DD 1200 and will likely keep it in the fleet for a very long time.. I hope that you also found a good bike for your intended purpose. Keep on riding....... Tom