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cthomas609
03-09-2012, 11:34 AM
Has anyone had the opportunity to hear these side-by-side? I'm tried to compare youtube videos so many times, but it's just hard to tell.

I've heard that, generally speaking, arrow is higher quality than the LV. Does anyone have any personal experience? I'm trying to decide if the $400 price difference is worth it for the Arrow!

lanter
03-09-2012, 01:20 PM
I haven't heard them side by side, but I remember reading somewhere that the Leos are loader then the Arrows when both had silencer out. I don't think the Leos come with the metal under tray like the Arrows do.

cthomas609
03-09-2012, 01:41 PM
I haven't heard them side by side, but I remember reading somewhere that the Leos are loader then the Arrows when both had silencer out. I don't think the Leos come with the metal under tray like the Arrows do.

What's your take on quality? What I'm really trying to determine is if the Arros are worth the extra cost.

Micah / AF1 Racing
03-09-2012, 02:23 PM
Leo Vince quality IMHO is far better than Arrow. Akro is still the gold standard but Leo is close. One of our inside jokes is that Arrow is the D&D of Italy. The Leo also does not have catalyzed link pipes. I install a lot of pipes, I prefer a Leo install any day over an Arrow, and Arrow any day over Termi, Mivv or worst of all Delkevik.

cliffc
03-10-2012, 11:31 AM
Does anyone have pictures of the Leo installed on their bike? If so I would like to see the difference between Arrow and Leo on looks.

Titan077
03-11-2012, 02:05 AM
I have the Arrows on my DD1200 and the local dealer has a dd1200 with the LEO's. Looks wise IMO the Arrows are more pleasing than the Leo's. As far as sound I have the DNA stage II with the Aprilia Map and its not as loud as the LEO but deeper.

When you factor in the price of the LEO's be sure to add in fuel management and what that costs. I have no issues with the Arrow quaility and I believe AF1 has knocked the cats out of Arrows before, if that is an issue for you...

As far as price, I picked up the Arrows for a little bit over $1250 w/tax. Local dealer had them in stock and I got a discount as I bought my bike from them. Got the DNA Stage II from AF1, do both at the same time is my recommendation.

Good luck with your decision.

motardman
05-03-2012, 07:18 PM
Does anyone have pictures of the Leo installed on their bike? If so I would like to see the difference between Arrow and Leo on looks.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d41/mammaryman/IMG_2879.jpg

motardman
05-03-2012, 07:21 PM
Does anyone have pictures of the Leo installed on their bike? If so I would like to see the difference between Arrow and Leo on looks.

They take ALOT of screwing about to get them symmetrical and you don't get the useful heat shield that sits under the pillion but I think they look better. The really screw with the tune though, mine runs SUPER rich, so much so that my wife almost passed out from vortexing fuel fumes after a 30 minute hard out ride, is OK at cruising pace though.

cliffc
05-04-2012, 11:22 AM
Thanks..... It helps a ton to see that! After some research and reading I am going to go with the Arrow pipe on my DD1200....

Chewy52
05-13-2012, 12:15 AM
Thanks for the pic Motardman, any chance you've got any more pics of the Leo's. A shot from behind would help in making up my mind ! Don't think i would get away with the tail tidy like yours tho. I've damaged my Arrows, but hell it sounded good, DOH.

motardman
05-16-2012, 04:13 AM
Thanks for the pic Motardman, any chance you've got any more pics of the Leo's. A shot from behind would help in making up my mind ! Don't think i would get away with the tail tidy like yours tho. I've damaged my Arrows, but hell it sounded good, DOH.

Here's another I have, will try and take one from further back later this week or at the weekend :)

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d41/mammaryman/Pipes.jpg

Chewy52
05-21-2012, 07:50 PM
Cheers for that. Those end caps look the same as the Arrow's do,.....did, so it's only the side view that changes. The Leo's look good with the black tho. Don't recon they would as good on my white 1. Do they have removable DB killer?

motardman
05-23-2012, 02:00 AM
Cheers for that. Those end caps look the same as the Arrow's do,.....did, so it's only the side view that changes. The Leo's look good with the black tho. Don't recon they would as good on my white 1. Do they have removable DB killer?

They do but it's not really much of a restrictor as it makes little difference in or out. One point to note is the lack of catalytic converter means that the very 'open' pipe seems to bias the O2 sensor a little more than if you have the Arrows and therefore it runs quite a bit more rich. That in itself is not a issue but if you regularly take a pillion then I'd suggest getting the Arrows as I've had problems with vortexing fuel fumes and a slightly ill looking wife...lol

motardman
05-23-2012, 02:04 AM
Wise words from Micah at AF1...bear in mind that the Leo DB killers aren't really much of a solution as like I said they don't really change much..noise or closed loop wise.

'If you have pipes running the DD1200 with the DB killers in place works better for closed loop running. Closed loop
control on Motorcycles with their short exhaust pipes combined with a free flowing set of slip ons and running at lower rpms is usually way too rich. This has everything to do with atmospheric air reversion into the exhaust pipes at lower rpms. Basically reversion allows the o2 sensor to be exposed to too much air, it senses lean because the lambda probe cannot tell the difference between reversion air and oxygen left over during the combustion process. DB killers reduce reversion air more than anything else beneficial they do'

I'd have bought the Arrows if I could go back in time, they may be more expensive and unfortunately have no carbon only option but I think they would have run better (less rich). However I still think the carbon look and the noise is superior with the Leo's.

Chewy52
05-28-2012, 07:57 PM
+ 1 to that. The missus has suffered from the fumes on a number of occasions with the Arrows. It seems the faster we go the worse it gets.

motardman
05-29-2012, 01:49 AM
+ 1 to that. The missus has suffered from the fumes on a number of occasions with the Arrows. It seems the faster we go the worse it gets.

We noted the same, I think the faster you go, the more aggressive engine braking you do hence the more unburnt fuel is dumped out the back...which would indicate it's a design flaw in the pipe angle that only effects pillions....and my backpack that I have to say STINKS after riding this bike...something I only experienced back when I was a teenager with a 125cc dirt bike.

It would be good to see a wind tunnel interpretation of the effect as I'm sure you would see vortexing fumes due to the pipes half facing each other. Probably wouldn't happen with stock pipes as they face slightly outwards....not sure if there is any solution other than to put the stock pipes back on.....or trade it in for a Tuono V4R

lanter
05-29-2012, 08:59 AM
I haven't experienced any gas fumes with my arrows! :confused:

motardman
05-29-2012, 03:50 PM
I haven't experienced any gas fumes with my arrows! :confused:

I can't of course speak for the Arrows as I have Leo's. The problem for me is no cat combined with the problem Micah mentioned regarding the O2 sensor and therefore running too rich and of course the vortexing fumes. I wouldn't notice it as a rider if it wasn't for my backpack however for a pillion it is really bad, my wife went slightly green and I thought she was going to pass out....not good!

Going sedately is much better and just means her clothes smell a bit but go hard and it's quite extreme. Seriously looking at the V4R now as it won't have the problem as the pipe is down low.

lanter
05-29-2012, 10:04 PM
Wonder if the arrow y-pipe with the cats would work with the leo's?!?! When I installed my arrows, I left the cats installed. I assumed when aprilia designed the aprilia/arrow mapping, it was mapped with the cats installed. I could be wrong, but mine runs flawlessly.

Even though the V4 is badass :bond: it probably gets less miles per tank full then the DD1200. If your thinking on ditching the DD, wait till 2013 for the Caponord.

motardman
05-29-2012, 10:14 PM
Wonder if the arrow y-pipe with the cats would work with the leo's?!?! When I installed my arrows, I left the cats installed. I assumed when aprilia designed the aprilia/arrow mapping, it was mapped with the cats installed. I could be wrong, but mine runs flawlessly.

Even though the V4 is badass :bond: it probably gets less miles per tank full then the DD1200. If your thinking on ditching the DD, wait till 2013 for the Caponord.

I also wondered about the Y pipe however nobody seems to know the answer. With regard to the Tuono, yeah it's hard to believe anything has worse miles to the gallon than the DD but indeed I have read the same in that it is a fuel guzzler! I'm after something slightly mental and the V4 fits that bill, not ready to tour just yet :lol:

lanter
05-30-2012, 11:19 AM
Wonder if the arrow y-pipe with the cats would work with the leo's?!?! When I installed my arrows, I left the cats installed. I assumed when aprilia designed the aprilia/arrow mapping, it was mapped with the cats installed. I could be wrong, but mine runs flawlessly.

Even though the V4 is badass :bond: it probably gets less miles per tank full then the DD1200. If your thinking on ditching the DD, wait till 2013 for the Caponord.

I also wondered about the Y pipe however nobody seems to know the answer. With regard to the Tuono, yeah it's hard to believe anything has worse miles to the gallon than the DD but indeed I have read the same in that it is a fuel guzzler! I'm after something slightly mental and the V4 fits that bill, not ready to tour just yet :lol:


Slightly mental? LMAO. :) It doesn't get more mental then the V4. AWESOME machine.

Chewy52
06-06-2012, 09:36 PM
[QUOTE=lanter;3127726]Wonder if the arrow y-pipe with the cats would work with the leo's?!?! When I installed my arrows, I left the cats installed. I assumed when aprilia designed the aprilia/arrow mapping, it was mapped with the cats installed. I could be wrong, but mine runs flawlessly.

I've looked at the leo's and the link pipes seem pretty close to the Arrow's pipe work, so probably could make the two parts mate up OK. The dealer knocked the cats out prior to delivery (i didn't ask for them to be removed ) but mine ran pretty good with the map update installed , no abnormal traits apart from running a bit rich. Without a dyno test it would be a guess as to how rich tho. No visable soot , just a strong smell.