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gtwhale
11-08-2011, 07:13 PM
I just saw a few dozen pictures of the Ducati 1199 panigale on www.autoblog.com
Have you all checked it out? There are alot of detailed photos.Thoughts on the design...
1.mirrors got to go.
2. curly Q exhaust under the seat? not diggin it.
3.fairings/ plastic just don't have the classic ducati refinement.
Never thought I'd say it but it looks better with a multi color paint scheme...Not good. Kind of like a two tone ferrari looking better then a sold red. Something is wrong if adding paint scheme is required to enhance the look.
I'll hold all my thoughts, until I see it in person. It may have a whole better look.

DuctTape
11-08-2011, 07:23 PM
Glad I got my 1198S..........................

GosuPaintballer
11-08-2011, 07:41 PM
DuctTape, in your opinion, do you enjoy your 1198 or RSV4 better? And why?

Reason i'm asking, is i'm about to buy one or the other

512BB
11-08-2011, 08:22 PM
I like that 1199. Thanks for the post.

wilkson
11-08-2011, 08:40 PM
Anyone want to buy a RSV4 ?
http://www.formula-xtreme.com.au/xtremema.nsf/b5c953e8e1b65e94ca256a560030b8d6/a38f79f5a35a489dca2579420079d147?OpenDocument

Rspec99
11-08-2011, 09:19 PM
I want one. Looks beautiful and notable technical improvements. I know some prefer the old styling but the new 1199 looks much more modern and interesting.

Dejavu
11-09-2011, 01:23 AM
I wish I had the 18k they wanted for it!

wilkson
11-09-2011, 01:45 AM
I wish I had the 18k they wanted for it!

It's my bike . You should buy it.

Dejavu
11-09-2011, 01:58 AM
Haha....Just bought my factory...I havnt got a spare 18k floating round....even if i sold my zx6r i would still need to find 10k

03rsvMille
11-09-2011, 02:45 AM
That 1199 looks like what you would get if you crossed a Desmosedici and the RSV4...

Pernettster
11-09-2011, 04:07 AM
Nice 1199 video........ http://www.gaskrank.tv/tv/hersteller/superbike-ducati-1199-panigale-17353.htm

igotyofire
11-09-2011, 05:26 AM
personally I love it, I wouldnt mind parking one right next to the the V4. It sounds even better then the 1098. I see the suspension offset is changed. does that mean they got rid of the front end tendancy to tuck? I have no idea but am really curious to see how it comes out in the reviews. I have a feeling there will be two types of reviews. 1199 vs current competition obviously & 1199 vs 1198. So I cant wait to see how much improved & what professional riders think of it.

Cheets
11-09-2011, 09:20 AM
I love it! But how does it ride? I got rid of my 1199s for my RSV4 Factory APRC and it was the best move i ever done! If I had the money I would have one in my garage on those looks alone.

ckruzel
11-09-2011, 09:52 AM
whats with the exhaust sticking through the fairing on the right side? i think everyone is chasing aprilia in the looks department anymore, very cookie cutter like, nothing like they did back with the 916, hell i even liked the 999 better than these, plus with all the quick model changes they just kill resale value on any previous bike

TheM!G
11-09-2011, 10:23 AM
I LOVE it. So much that I might actually buy it in R form when it comes out. :D

Templar
11-09-2011, 11:42 AM
I really like it. I know some who hate it, but honestly, I heard a lot of people who hated the 1098 when it arrived, saying that it was a Ducati that looked like a Japanese bike. I had an 848 and I really liked it (except for the handling, which needed some help). I look at the 1199 and just feel like I'm looking at a Ferrari Enzo with two wheels.

rx7tt95
11-09-2011, 12:19 PM
There are certain aspects of the bike I can appreciate but there's also a whole lotta ugly in there, especially when you compare side by side to an RSV4 and take notice of the similarities. Definitely looks "modern", much like an Enzo did when it first came out, but I think that's mostly down to the LED lights and not much else. The bike seems conflicted, with some organic and mechanical surfaces on the bike.

Love the dash and top triple. The tank is atrocious.

Going by the specs alone, it'll be a beast. But then so was were the 1198 specs when it came out.

shakazulu12
11-09-2011, 01:37 PM
The geometry changes are pretty huge. Now lets see the 848 version and find out if the engines explode.

fastmike
11-09-2011, 01:45 PM
That thing looks badass. A lot of little design characteristics and such that if you look really close make you say hmmmm.... I'd like to see it up close and personal to really get a good look at all the subtleties.

What's the going rate in USD? It needs to come in black.

Rspec99
11-09-2011, 01:49 PM
It's always that way. New bike comes out, and the previous generation owners chime in and slag the new bike. I think we've allbeen guilty of it at some point in time of bike ownership.

The Corse version without the headlights looks particularly bad ass.

fastmike
11-09-2011, 01:53 PM
Forgot to ask. What are the hoses/wires coming off the top of the forks?

klowry
11-09-2011, 02:03 PM
Mike
the first electronically adjustable suspension on a sport bike, the first engine braking control system

mikef4uk
11-09-2011, 03:17 PM
Pics from EICMA

DuctTape
11-09-2011, 04:55 PM
It's always that way. New bike comes out, and the previous generation owners chime in and slag the new bike. I think we've allbeen guilty of it at some point in time of bike ownership.

The Corse version without the headlights looks particularly bad ass.

I just don't need all the gadgets which makes me very happy that I got both the Ducati and Aprilia when I did, that's it............:)

If others get all warm and fuzzy with a slew of buttons and lights I'm happy for them but TC, LC, WC, ABS, EEB, electronically adjustable suspension, windscreens, seat height, rear sets, brake and clutch levers, tire pressure, etc, etc, etc is a waste for a guy like me.

I hope Ebay is flooded with 1098's because I sure would like to pick up one of those antiquated POS 1098R's.

RSV4RR
11-09-2011, 05:02 PM
The tank is ugly, the shock/linkage assembly looks like crap being off centered so much, rear hugger is ugly, rear swingarm is ugly, the 180+ degree exhaust bend with cover above the swingarm pivot is ugly.

Dash is cool, specs look good, weight looks promissing, side panels and nose look stylish (tail and belly don't), wheels are ok.

jpbits
11-09-2011, 05:09 PM
I think it looks great. BUT fitting race fairings with that exhaust is going to interesting. I see lots of burning fiberglass and lord of aftermarket full systems

bennice
11-09-2011, 05:25 PM
It's a looker all right. I keep looking, and can't help but feel like there's something missing. Of course, that's just the purist in me noticing that there are no passenger capabilities whatsoever (not that we ever actually use them anyway), and the lack of a frame.

The tank is kind of strange looking, and the exhaust bulging out the back is weird too. But the dash looks awesome IMO and the electronic goodies sound very interesting. It will be interesting to see what it looks like in real life, and how all these specs translate to real riding.

fastmike
11-09-2011, 07:31 PM
Mike
the first electronically adjustable suspension on a sport bike, the first engine braking control system

Thanks Karl.


I bet it'll have a pillion like the V4 does.

Phunky Phish
11-09-2011, 07:37 PM
If I had the money I would add one to my stable. But I don't, so I won't!!

potere
11-09-2011, 08:03 PM
I am loosing my fascination with Ducati. The exhaust looks like an old Buel, the tank is so gross the designer should be fired. The rear linkage is a joke along with the shock. And the swingarm is a nightmare.

Honestly, the beauty expected from Ducati took a deep dive with the Diavel IMO and continues with this atrociousness.

I read with enthusiasm about the engine design and the technical details of it so this is a big letdown. Even if this thing could run circles around my RSV4 on the track, you could not sell it to me for $15,000.

There are a few nice features on it but they don't make up for what is unpleasant for the eyes.

Chris_Mag
11-09-2011, 08:33 PM
The geometry changes are pretty huge. Now lets see the 848 version and find out if the engines explode.

Shhh! Don't tell Nate.

gtwhale
11-09-2011, 10:37 PM
Anyone willing to hold out for this concept version of the RSV4?
This wins hands down...
http://www.stayontheblack.com/arun-kumar-francis-2012-aprilia-rsv4-concept/

shakazulu12
11-09-2011, 11:01 PM
Shhh! Don't tell Nate.

I keep trying to tell Nate, but he can't hear me over the sound of his engine knocking.

Eape
11-10-2011, 01:51 AM
What I like: The display, it is the next step, sort of like what Lexus did with the LFA. The suspension, with the tech on the front and the F1 like rear shock, love it. Nose fairing is a nice progression of design.
What I don't like: The exhaust, I don't think they knew what they wanted, KYM did the underneath exhaust right, BMW did it wrong, the 1199 seems to be a mix of some sort, they should have tried to adapt the D16rr's to this bike.
What was copied: maybe I'm seeing things but from the profile view the subframe looks a lot like the RSV4.
As far as the new frameless concept goes: I haven't an opinion other than from a style or looks perspective it's ehh, ok.

mikef4uk
11-10-2011, 03:12 AM
In the flesh the bike looks good, the rear suspension linkage i'm also not sure about but it does all the usual adjustments PLUS it is adjustable for either rising rate or flat rate.

Being as everything is attached to the engine I would love to see one with the engine removed, I would imagine you would need a frame to replace where the engine located, or an awfull lot of shelf space!!

I also see the marketting suffering, this is the same frame concept as the moto gp bike, you know, the one Rossi and Burgess want to chuck in the skip

duke63
11-10-2011, 03:51 AM
It's stunning and has moved sportsbike development on another notch. 195bhp and 177kg has to be manic.

warren kiernan
11-10-2011, 04:09 AM
purely on aesthetics and not specs, it reminds me of a gsxr tail end with yamaha r6 side fairings. dosent do much for me so far. might need to see afew more pics tho and just my 2 cents worth

wilkson
11-10-2011, 04:13 AM
Just sold my RSV4 today so will let you guys know what they are like in a few months .:)

VR-8
11-10-2011, 04:28 AM
The frame or lack of it is my concern, there has been many tests within Ducati to make it work (MotoGP) but they have reached the conclusion that it is not the way to go. For next year they will race with a "standard" alu-frame as many others have, at the same time they present this bike.......strange.

One other thing that I wonder about, how well does it handle a crash on the track. Over the years of Gen2 RSV and 1098/1198 it has been clear that the Ducatis are very fragile to crashes, they break brackets for footrests and fairings VERY easy when compared to the RSV. How about this design, how will that handle a low-sider or a high-sider? The RSV is very "nice" to crash, often there is only plastic parts to change, no major issues with frame damage as the Ducati have. Maybe this is a result of a weightsaving design that leaves very little material left to handle crashes etc?

My .02

/J

ckruzel
11-10-2011, 09:50 AM
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/irony/19449.html

Irony is not rain on your wedding day. Nor is it anything else Alanis Morissette sang. No, irony is this:


TODAY, press day at EICMA in Milan is full swing with all eyes focussed on Ducati's 1199 Panigale, a bike defined by its use of a monocoque frame that's so far failed to work on the firm's Desmosedici MotoGP bike.

Ducati really hoped that, right now, it would be basking in the glory of a successful MotoGP season. It spent a fortune employing one Mr Valentino Rossi to steer its monocoque-framed racer to podiums and wins, sowing the vital PR seeds that would ensure the Panigale was an instant hit.

Instead he struggled, with all fingers pointing straight at the Ducati's chassis as the culprit for the worst season in Rossi's career.

Ducati would prefer it wasn't so, but the timing of events meant that on the very same day it was showing the monocoque Panigale, just as it was singing the praises of the new monocoque chassis, across the sea in Spain a certain Mr Rossi rolled onto the tarmac at Valencia on a new Desmosedici. One with a good old fashioned aluminium beam frame and the 2012 1000cc engine.

And despite the fact the chassis has never been tried before and is testing alongside 1000cc 2012-spec machines from Honda and Yamaha that have run in the past and are developed from existing, well proven designs, he's instantly gone fourth fastest, behind only the two works Hondas and Ben Spies' Yamaha.

That, Alanis, is irony.

SlipinSlidin
11-10-2011, 10:01 AM
Thank you so much for this! WTF was Ducati thinking!



http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/irony/19449.html

Irony is not rain on your wedding day. Nor is it anything else Alanis Morissette sang. No, irony is this:

hank
11-10-2011, 10:32 AM
It will be interesting to see how this bike crashes - I hope they have finally installed bank angle sensor in this model to shut it off when it goes down...

The shock placement might make a left handed low side very expensive...


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-p6z_OWDKKcE/Trpir3mKeGI/AAAAAAAAHjk/carMqsMDXXE/s640/Ducati1199a.jpg

colacin
11-10-2011, 11:10 AM
Where the #$% are the brains of people calling Ducati's MotoGP chassis design a FAILURE? Do they actually follow MotoGP? This chassis concept was not new this year, just the material.

Stoner could apparently make the Ducati win without a twin-spar frame. And where was Tech3 and LCR and the non-factory Gresini? And Suzuki? Ahead of the factory Ducatis?

Yes, everyone except Stoner has been a step off the pace with the Ducati, but Rossi doesn't like the chassis and that is that. Why pretend the bike didn't win races and call it a failure?

Sure, Ducati can't market a MotoGP tie-in anymore so the marketing folks are crying, but who cares? How many of us bought the RSV4 based on "MotoGP" design?

The only thing that matters for Ducati is how the 1199 actually handles once the journos get on it. Not if a completely different, unrelated, prototype bike with a similar frame idea is several tenths off the pace in MotoGP.

If it handles like its predecessors I'll stay clear - despite the electronics, power and supersport weight.

Ok. I'm done ranting. I'm waiting for the reviews... but it will piss me off if the 1199 can take me in a corner *and* leave me on the straight!

mikef4uk
11-10-2011, 11:28 AM
Where the #$% are the brains of people calling Ducati's MotoGP chassis design a FAILURE? Do they actually follow MotoGP? This chassis concept was not new this year, just the material.

Stoner could apparently make the Ducati win without a twin-spar frame. And where was Tech3 and LCR and the non-factory Gresini? And Suzuki? Ahead of the factory Ducatis?

Yes, everyone except Stoner has been a step off the pace with the Ducati, but Rossi doesn't like the chassis and that is that. Why pretend the bike didn't win races and call it a failure?

Sure, Ducati can't market a MotoGP tie-in anymore so the marketing folks are crying, but who cares? How many of us bought the RSV4 based on "MotoGP" design?




The Ducati Moto GP bike is not just a failure, it's a complete and utter shambles.

''Several tenths off the pace?''................ try about 14 tenths

Rossi can't ride it, he has fallen off more this year than in the whole of the 800cc years, Hayden can't ride it, Melandri's career was nearly finished by it, it's hardly a succes story.

The only person who can ride the thing is Stoner, and he winged about it, it also chucked him up the road enough times, he just rode around the thing speedway style to stop it launching him into the boonies.

Ducati obviously want to link the new bike with ''Moto GP'' technology, how they're going to get around discarding the airbox design on the Moto GP bike and advertising it as a good thing on the road bikes remains to be seen.
Rossi and Burgess have fallen out with Ducati throughout the season over the design, that's why the last two days of testing have been with the twin spar bike

klowry
11-10-2011, 12:12 PM
For street use and track day, it will probably have great reviews, no-one I know can ride at the level of Casey Stoner or Rossi or Hayden, who can push the bike to the limits and above like they do, especially Stoner. Rossi said "I think the problem is not the material or if the engine is part of the chassis, I think it is more something else, weight distribution maybe, because from aluminium and carbon, there is not a lot of difference." He also earlier mentioned that with the carbon frame they had to change engines to change the balance (because of the engine mounts built into the cases of the motor had to be changed not the carbon frame which would be difficult and expensive, and time consuming) With the aluminum they can quickly make changes to the frame to change the balance of the bike.
It will be interesting to see how the bike actually works in reviews, but with all the test riding and Bayliss' testing we all know it will be a great bike for street and track day use.
Racing at World Superbike level or even AMA superbike will be a whole different story.
Should be interesting to see if anyone runs it in SBK this coming year.

ckruzel
11-10-2011, 12:19 PM
Thank you so much for this! WTF was Ducati thinking!

well everyone thought the bmw was the second coming until people couldnt race it

ckruzel
11-10-2011, 12:22 PM
Should be interesting to see if anyone runs it in SBK this coming year.

checa already said he isn't going to race it, they are sticking with the current bike

ckruzel
11-10-2011, 12:23 PM
don't get me wrong but didn't the 848 have good reviews? it needs triple clamps, a swingarm and a rear link to make it handle and then it'll just blow up anyway

klowry
11-10-2011, 12:48 PM
Many bikes do need expensive and time consuming changes to bring them to competitive levels when racing. Example:
To get our 09 R1 to handle we had to do triple clamp offsets, shock link, ohlins cartridges and shocks with Graves thankfully reworking them umpteen times, two years in development and now it doesn't try to kill you everytime you are pushing for fast lap or a race win.
Underseat fuel cell,to stop roll-over weight transfer of fuel on the brakes, superbike radiator, etc. and we are still down 25 to 30 hp to the BMW and Suzuki's and 15 to 20 or more on some competitors Hondas.
The R1 is now a fun bike to ride at race pace and competitve, but it was a long haul to get it there.

512BB
11-10-2011, 09:15 PM
Put a deposit down..............

igotyofire
11-10-2011, 10:58 PM
Many bikes do need expensive and time consuming changes to bring them to competitive levels when racing. Example:
To get our 09 R1 to handle we had to do triple clamp offsets, shock link, ohlins cartridges and shocks with Graves thankfully reworking them umpteen times, two years in development and now it doesn't try to kill you everytime you are pushing for fast lap or a race win.
Underseat fuel cell,to stop roll-over weight transfer of fuel on the brakes, superbike radiator, etc. and we are still down 25 to 30 hp to the BMW and Suzuki's and 15 to 20 or more on some competitors Hondas.
The R1 is now a fun bike to ride at race pace and competitve, but it was a long haul to get it there.

I almost got an R1 but after considering the money saved would have to be used it to bring it up to par with the RSV4. I feel the RSV4 stock is damn good & most bikes need to be brought up to its level to perform as well or better. I find it funny hearing this common theme that I will be faster on another bike because I am afraid to bin it because its expensive...My opinion is that behavior is just being wreck-less & not only a danger to yourself but other riders if thats how you feel. I think the rider should always feel confident & in control even when pushing, but what do I know, Im just a noob who has done two track days.

Dayv
11-11-2011, 03:34 AM
I think the Tri Colour is very very nice...the white breaks up the bodywork...very interesting bike....with a lot of interesting things....Ducati have really redesigned the bike from front to rear and good on them....a bit of a desmoseduci/motogp rear...
look very forward to seeing it in the flesh and listening to it with a set of termi's....mirrors are out there
still at the end of the day the RSV4 rocks and it will never sound like it...and yes I can see where they have copied the look of Aprilia..

jpooch00
03-11-2012, 06:43 PM
I love it! But how does it ride? I got rid of my 1199s for my RSV4 Factory APRC and it was the best move i ever done! If I had the money I would have one in my garage on those looks alone.

So, you've already bought and sold a 2012 1199S & bought a new Ape? Am I mis-reading something here? Did you mean an 1198S?

shanes
03-11-2012, 09:18 PM
don't get me wrong but didn't the 848 have good reviews? it needs triple clamps, a swingarm and a rear link to make it handle and then it'll just blow up anyway


i got sucked into those review , total complete shit box of a bike i sold it after 450km and brought the 2011 RSV4 factory for the exact same money 1000 times better bike in every single department , i was going to get the 1199 but after the 848 i won't be buying another ducati

amauri
03-12-2012, 10:17 AM
Based on the info I’ve read and photos I’ve seen, I believe that the new 1199 motor will have the same cylinder sealing issues as the Aprilia RXV/SXV motors.
The new Duc crankcase configuration is a very close copy of Aprilia's little twin, with wet liners that insert directly into the vertically split crankcase (not a pressed fit).

Poussin
03-12-2012, 01:26 PM
2 weeks ago, I've seen two 1199 on track during a track day.

Both bikes were just broken in, and it was the first track day for the 2 pilots who drove them. The 2 guys ride in French SBK (they are not rookies, and they are usually in the top 5 at every race ...). With fully stock bike (with lights and so on), one was just about 1,5 seconds of his best laps on this track by the end of the day (both guys had 1998R with all the ducati corse parts).

If the bike seems to be a top one, like Amauri said, what about the reliability ?

Chris_Mag
03-12-2012, 01:32 PM
Based on the info I’ve read and photos I’ve seen, I believe that the new 1199 motor will have the same cylinder sealing issues as the Aprilia RXV/SXV motors.
The new Duc crankcase configuration is a very close copy of Aprilia's little twin, with wet liners that insert directly into the vertically split crankcase (not a pressed fit).

I heard the same comment from a Ducati Master tech from my local dealer. Time will tell.

RoteEddie
03-12-2012, 01:37 PM
Isn't the Panigale based on Rossi's infamous bike?

zvez
03-12-2012, 01:55 PM
Only insofar as Rossi's bike (from last year?) and the 1199 have a frameless configuration ie a monocoque construction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monocoque


Isn't the Panigale based on Rossi's infamous bike?

new2rsv
03-12-2012, 03:15 PM
I saw the panigale at the NYC show and the bike looks beautiful to me. Obviously everyone has a diff idea of beauty so it's almost impossible to make everyone happy. As for the performance, and whether it's based on the gP bike, well i can't imagine most people being able to push the bike to the limit it probably needs to be pushed so that it doesn't work...anyway, i know if i had the cash, id def be in for one. the bike is notably smaller than my 1098R and seems quite compact, almost like the RSV4. Definitely looking forward to reading the comparos from the diff publications.

zvez
03-12-2012, 03:46 PM
Amazing to me it comes in 40 pounds lighter than my rsv4!


I saw the panigale at the NYC show and the bike looks beautiful to me. Obviously everyone has a diff idea of beauty so it's almost impossible to make everyone happy. As for the performance, and whether it's based on the gP bike, well i can't imagine most people being able to push the bike to the limit it probably needs to be pushed so that it doesn't work...anyway, i know if i had the cash, id def be in for one. the bike is notably smaller than my 1098R and seems quite compact, almost like the RSV4. Definitely looking forward to reading the comparos from the diff publications.

TheX
03-12-2012, 03:53 PM
I hope it works out, I'd like to get one in 2013.

Rspec99
03-12-2012, 03:58 PM
I love the new 1199, and will probably pick one up after the first year run. It is such a big change for Ducati, and with their limited resources, I anticipate some teething issues for the first while. The 1098, while it was not revolutionary like the Panigale, experienced a lot of problems that were ironed out in future iterations.

The 1199 is a beautiful bike, and judging by how the moto press has been gushing on about it, a phenomenal riding machine as well. It sets new standards in stock superbike power-to-weight ratios.

Chris_Mag
03-12-2012, 09:37 PM
I look forward to Motorcycle Consumer News or Roadracing World doing a review. Until then, the wet weight and HP numbers are hype. I'm not saying they're BS, but I've seen too many BS claims from OEMs regarding bike weights to take it at face value.

amauri
03-12-2012, 09:59 PM
Amazing to me it comes in 40 pounds lighter than my rsv4!

Back in 2007, Ducati lied about the weight on the 1098 by 25-lbs.
Yes the V4 is a bit heavy, but I'll believe the 1099 is 40-lbs lighter when I see it for myself.

I've got a pretty accurate scale here at the shop, hopefully soon I can get a couple customers to stop by with a 1099 and a V4 to compare.

fastmike
03-13-2012, 12:18 AM
I'm not sure why everyone cares about weight and horsepower claims. For me it's handling and riding that makes the bike. All those numbers don't help me a bit once I put my helmet on, like ckruzel said about the BMW, try and get it around the track. Numbers don't help ride it.

norcolmille
03-13-2012, 12:22 AM
Amazing to me it comes in 40 pounds lighter than my rsv4!

Audi is first in line to buy Ducati- their engineers will have some input on the next generation 1199....

fastmike
03-13-2012, 12:47 AM
The next generation 1199?? Haven't even got this one out yet....

jpooch00
03-14-2012, 05:39 PM
Audi is first in line to buy Ducati- their engineers will have some input on the next generation 1199....

I saw that story on the Panigali forum & immediately cancelled my order for a Duc & changed it to a Factory APRC SE. Fortunately for me my dealer sells both brands, so transferring my deposit wasn't a problem.

I don't know if Audi or anybody else will buy Ducati or not, but I won't be buying a bike from a company that's in that precarious financial condition. Supposedly, they're under a $1.5 Billion debt right now with no realistic hope at all of reducing it and their investors are pretty much fed up with throwing money down a bottomless black hole.

Also, if I want a bike built by a German-owned company, I'll buy a Beemer.

zvez
03-14-2012, 06:28 PM
185922THis is from a weigh in of s1k, ape, 1199 each bike with 3 gallons of gas.


Back in 2007, Ducati lied about the weight on the 1098 by 25-lbs.
Yes the V4 is a bit heavy, but I'll believe the 1099 is 40-lbs lighter when I see it for myself.

I've got a pretty accurate scale here at the shop, hopefully soon I can get a couple customers to stop by with a 1099 and a V4 to compare.

MishMashRSV4
03-14-2012, 06:46 PM
I'm not sure why everyone cares about weight and horsepower claims. For me it's handling and riding that makes the bike. All those numbers don't help me a bit once I put my helmet on, like ckruzel said about the BMW, try and get it around the track. Numbers don't help ride it.

A-Men brother! Ive ridden bikes that were lighter yet sucked

MishMashRSV4
03-14-2012, 06:47 PM
185922THis is from a weigh in of s1k, ape, 1199 each bike with 3 gallons of gas.

I'll believe it when I see an independent test of the weights, and not Ducati themselves doing it with a Panigale thats missing the crank, pistons and the oil from its internals

Chris_Mag
03-14-2012, 10:57 PM
20kg = 44lbs, so they're claiming 420lbs (the RSV4R is 464)? Humm. Is that without a battery?

I notice also that the Ape is an R, but the 1199 is an "S", so it's probably going to have forged wheels. It'd be more fair to compare to the V4F both in terms of weight and price, so you can shave 9 lbs there before we even consider the lack of the huge passenger peg assembly for the 1199, which were not removed from the other bikes...

http://ducati1199.com/pictures/watermark.php?file=198

I just weighed the assemblies from mine @1.6lbs. I'll bet this monstrosity weights more than 1.6lbs :funnypost

Ok, the Duck will be light. That's awesome, but is it really necessary to flub the numbers when it's already going to be the lightest production liter-bike out there? I don't think personally.

$1200 frame slider anyone?

http://ducati1199.com/pictures/watermark.php?file=197

Chris_Mag
03-14-2012, 11:10 PM
Another interesting thought - how are you going to manage crash protection for the bike in street trim? There's no frame to mount sliders to and the brake lever's almost guaranteed to damage the lower even in a low-speed crash.


http://ducati1199.com/pictures/watermark.php?file=214

Would I rock one - fuck yes. Would I let anyone touch it/sit on it - no, for fear of a tip-over doing $6000 worth of damage to the controls, bodywork, engine covers and shock mount.

xa-mont
03-14-2012, 11:21 PM
why would you need to protect it? ducati riders are so awesome that they don't need protection.

dastrix
03-14-2012, 11:26 PM
As much as I love the RSV4, I'd have a 1199. Just not the first model of the cycle... Might look at it when the kinks are ironed out.

kostas
03-15-2012, 08:55 AM
ONLY APRLILIA gives you what are you paid off

mirkvid
03-15-2012, 10:36 AM
^^ been doin' some drinking? :)

Cool, bike though, I think the Ape looks better. Won't know what I like better 'till I get to sit on one, and I don't see that happening any time soon.

Chris_Mag
03-15-2012, 11:04 AM
why would you need to protect it? ducati riders are so awesome that they don't need protection.

:lol:

jsin38
03-15-2012, 11:28 AM
Ducati has not made a good looking bike since 1998.

SubZero
03-15-2012, 02:50 PM
I'll believe it when I see an independent test of the weights, and not Ducati themselves doing it with a Panigale thats missing the crank, pistons and the oil from its internals

I second this.. I'll just wait for Amauri's results if he gets lucky to get a 1199 come through.

Chris_Mag brought up a good point.. They're weighting the R model against their S model with forged rims...

We can't make Ducati for trying so hard since they're in debt so bad now! :)

zvez
03-15-2012, 06:50 PM
that's what the insurance is for. Tho I do suspect higher premiums because of it.


Another interesting thought - how are you going to manage crash protection for the bike in street trim? There's no frame to mount sliders to and the brake lever's almost guaranteed to damage the lower even in a low-speed crash.


http://ducati1199.com/pictures/watermark.php?file=214

Would I rock one - fuck yes. Would I let anyone touch it/sit on it - no, for fear of a tip-over doing $6000 worth of damage to the controls, bodywork, engine covers and shock mount.

zvez
03-15-2012, 06:54 PM
the 996/998 were still made into the 2000s. I think the 1098 is a great looking bike, I also the the 999 looks pretty cool but a bit avant garde I think for most people, it's design grew on me.

What is or isn't a beautiful bike is purely subjective. I think the new tuono v4 is an ugly pig, but can appreciate it. The RSV4 tho I do love the looks of it.



Ducati has not made a good looking bike since 1998.

TheX
03-15-2012, 07:01 PM
I love all the uninformed guesses being slung around to try to put down a bike that isn't even out yet. Lol, I hope it kicks ass big time.

Chris_Mag
03-15-2012, 08:15 PM
I was being facetious with my "$6000" comment of course. I'm excited to see one in person. Hopefully my dealer will have a demo I can ride also.

When I win the lottery :rolleyes: I'll buy an extra one and raffle it off to a forum member... how's that sound? ;)

osprey
03-16-2012, 05:10 AM
Ducati has not made a good looking bike since 1998.

This is my opinion as well. For me, older bikes of all brands seem to have a more racing look to them. I'm also a bit tired of complex electronic systems, that although helpful, make the bikes harder for the technologically challenged to work on by themselves. It seems that now you need to rely on a dealer to service your bike.

I will say that I am impressed that Ducati are making such an advanced bike (on paper anyway) for the average consumer. I would like to see how Aprilia respond with the next generation of the V4.

shanes
03-16-2012, 07:04 AM
I will say that I am impressed that Ducati are making such an advanced bike (on paper anyway) for the average consumer. I would like to see how Aprilia respond with the next generation of the V4.

i The CRT bikes will help aprilia a lot in there next bike

Micah / AF1 Racing
03-16-2012, 09:12 AM
Free dyno baseline offer for FIRST 1199 into my shop for weight and power testing.

devulge
03-16-2012, 11:58 AM
As a Ducati owner, I must say you all should be ashamed of yourself. You sound like a Japanese forum arguing if red or blue is faster. We like exotic European bikes which value high end components (Brembo & Ohlins) and place a higher emphasis on better handling. The Panigale is a nice looking machine. Alan Cathcart has had glowing reviews and he is a much respected moto-journalist. Why all of the anti-Ducati sentiment here? The people we should hate is the "Starbucks riders" who pose on the Ducati at the cafe. I work in US Nation's Capital and everytime I see a Ducati in front of a Starbucks with a BIG flat spot in the tire, I cringe...the fate of that poor motorcycle.

Having said that, I have owned MV Agusta, Ducati, and now Aprilia. I love all three. The MV was an 05 and that bike hides its weight well and had stock wheels heavier than Aprilia so the forged wheels made the difference. I should also note I was flamed on the 1098 forum for my comment that out of the box, yes, post $3300 in wheels and suspension for my 1098, the Aprilia out handles the Ducati all day long. The handling is still pretty close on my heavily modded 1098 and my Aprilia base model. I'm 98% sure I'm faster on this stock/base Aprilia RSV4R. The guys hated that but it is a fact. After the MV, I ignore the power to weight ratio because riding a bike is what is important and on the street and even track, not many of us are good enough to exploit 155hp, we aren't. What matters to me is the hard facts. The facts that matter to me are rake and trail, wheelbase, & weight distribution. Both the Ducati and BMW have less than 100mm of trail, no wonder they aren't good in racing. The new ZX10r sacrificed agility for stability. When you are stable, you are confident; when you are confident, you are faster. You can change the agility by raising the forks in the clamps, reducing trail; this can also affect weight distribution but only slightly. You can change wheelbase by close to 1/4" by going up 2 teeth in the rear. All of these bikes are so good now.
The RSV4 is like a Honda, light and neutral but unlike Honda, the RSV4 has spunk and character. Oh how I want to ride a 2010+ MV or even the 12 Corsa Corta...the first gen F41000 was a beauty and blazing fast.

MishMashRSV4
03-16-2012, 12:41 PM
As a Ducati owner, I must say you all should be ashamed of yourself.
LOL Ok Dad. No Shame Felt here....


You sound like a Japanese forum arguing if red or blue is faster. We like exotic European bikes which value high end components (Brembo & Ohlins) and place a higher emphasis on better handling. The Panigale is a nice looking machine. Alan Cathcart has had glowing reviews and he is a much respected moto-journalist.

Have you ever read an article about a bike Alan DIDNT like? Point me to it. While well respected and a great writer.....he rarely shrugs his shoulders at any bike, so I do not place much value in his evaluations


Why all of the anti-Ducati sentiment here?
Im not anti-Ducati...but what I AM is Anti-Bias. No Bias should be placed and used in the tests. Its evident Ducati is fundamentally biasing the test. Do you NOT agree with the physical evidence presented? No Passenger Peg assembly, Model differences, etc...and although my "guess" in this instance is conjecture, I HAVE witnessed my suggestion in the past where a manufacturer did in fact remove the engine internals.


The people we should hate is the "Starbucks riders" who pose on the Ducati at the cafe. I work in US Nation's Capital and everytime I see a Ducati in front of a Starbucks with a BIG flat spot in the tire, I cringe...the fate of that poor motorcycle. We agree on this 100%


Having said that, I have owned MV Agusta, Ducati, and now Aprilia. I love all three. The MV was an 05 and that bike hides its weight well and had stock wheels heavier than Aprilia so the forged wheels made the difference. I should also note I was flamed on the 1098 forum for my comment that out of the box, yes, post $3300 in wheels and suspension for my 1098, the Aprilia out handles the Ducati all day long. The handling is still pretty close on my heavily modded 1098 and my Aprilia base model. I'm 98% sure I'm faster on this stock/base Aprilia RSV4R. The guys hated that but it is a fact. After the MV, I ignore the power to weight ratio because riding a bike is what is important and on the street and even track, not many of us are good enough to exploit 155hp, we aren't. What matters to me is the hard facts. The facts that matter to me are rake and trail, wheelbase, & weight distribution. Both the Ducati and BMW have less than 100mm of trail, no wonder they aren't good in racing. The new ZX10r sacrificed agility for stability. When you are stable, you are confident; when you are confident, you are faster. You can change the agility by raising the forks in the clamps, reducing trail; this can also affect weight distribution but only slightly. You can change wheelbase by close to 1/4" by going up 2 teeth in the rear. All of these bikes are so good now.
The RSV4 is like a Honda, light and neutral but unlike Honda, the RSV4 has spunk and character. Oh how I want to ride a 2010+ MV or even the 12 Corsa Corta...the first gen F41000 was a beauty and blazing fast.

I appreciate this point of view and is at least fact and feel based.

I am NOT shameful though because as you are allowed and respected your opinion, we should ours....and its hard to refute the physical evidence provided.

SubZero
03-16-2012, 01:28 PM
Anybody read the FastBikes review of the 1199??

Seems pretty fair... One comment I remember the tester made was that the TC on the 1199 wasn't as good as the V4. Lol...

In any case, the bike still got 10/10... But it wasn't a mind boggling, blown away feeling that everyone was expecting when you rode it, according to FastBikes. :)