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hembo
07-25-2011, 10:11 AM
Guys,

Sorry to trouble you, im a newbie here, i bought an rsv4 factory just before APRC model was released, gutted! anyway, went on track at Jerez massive highside bike went on fire, a right mess.

Question, can you buy APRC to put on rsv4 factory non APRC?

Does anyone know how to buy full traction system, dont really want to go for the bazzaz one as it requires a lot of setting up and changing of parameters.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

THx,

Simon.

amauri
07-25-2011, 12:44 PM
Simon,
Welcome to the forum.

First, the APRC can be installed on a non-APRC bike, but the total cost for all the parts + labor to correctly install & configure the system will cost you more than a new APRC bike. Use the search function, this has been discussed here many times.

Second, TC will not save you from a highside crash & burn.

zgriders
07-25-2011, 01:18 PM
Simon,
Welcome to the forum.

First, the APRC can be installed on a non-APRC bike, but the total cost for all the parts + labor to correctly install & configure the system will cost you more than a new APRC bike. Use the search function, this has been discussed here many times.

Second, TC will not save you from a highside crash & burn.

:plus::plus::plus:

Micke65
07-25-2011, 03:12 PM
TC will not save you from a highside crash & burn

But it can .. right ?

Quarantine
07-25-2011, 03:16 PM
If you want traction control best sell your RSV4 take the hit, and buy a new APRC bike.
The cheaper option is something like bazzaz, but someone told me the traction on that is nowhere near as good as the ATC

amauri
07-25-2011, 03:19 PM
But it can .. right ?

I wouldn't count on it.

jgos929
07-25-2011, 03:33 PM
I look at it like this. TC is better than no TC. Whether it will keep you from highsiding who knows. All I know is the TC wasnt turned on on Lorenzos bike this past weekend and he highsided in practice. He, his mechanics and his crew chief all confirmed thats what caused the accident. He had it turned on yesterday and look how well he did.:)

RobertM
07-25-2011, 04:04 PM
But it can .. right ?

The best thing with TC - if you believe you have it, it makes you go faster (no matter if the TC works or not).

zgriders
07-25-2011, 04:09 PM
I look at it like this. TC is better than no TC. Whether it will keep you from highsiding who knows. All I know is the TC wasnt turned on on Lorenzos bike this past weekend and he highsided in practice. He, his mechanics and his crew chief all confirmed thats what caused the accident. He had it turned on yesterday and look how well he did.:)

There are more to those bikes than what we see and are reported...TC on MotoGP bikes are not like the TC on our bikes.

jgos929
07-25-2011, 04:17 PM
There are more to those bikes than what we see and are reported...TC on MotoGP bikes are not like the TC on our bikes.

Agreed but the point is TC more than likely would have saved him from that highside.

boostenmkiv
07-25-2011, 04:35 PM
There are more to those bikes than what we see and are reported...TC on MotoGP bikes are not like the TC on our bikes.

Agreed but the point is TC more than liaely would have saved him from that highside.

Heavily debatable topic, but why not...

I LOVE my aprc, especially the tc! While traction control may help prevent a high side, there are also many cases of a failed traction control causing very vicious high sides

amauri
07-25-2011, 06:00 PM
Agreed but the point is TC more than likely would have saved him from that highside.

Depends on how you look at it.

Most of us will believe the official story Yamaha's PR people released to the press, that someone's failure to turn on the TC caused Jorge to crash (he thought it was on).

But what if the TC was on all along but either was adjusted incorrectly or just plain malfunctioned?

PR people don't always tell the truth, they are specialists at manipulating the truth in a way that does the least harm to the corporate image. After all, the PR dept works for the marketing dept.

My point is that it doesn't matter if your TC works or not, don't count on it to save you from a crash.


Heavily debatable topic, but why not...

I LOVE my aprc, especially the tc! While traction control may help prevent a high side, there are also many cases of a failed traction control causing very vicious high sides

:plus:

MilleR Time
07-25-2011, 07:58 PM
The cheaper option is something like bazzaz, but someone told me the traction on that is nowhere near as good as the ATC

I can't speak for the Aprilia, but the best thing about the Bazzaz is that it basically informs you when you're nearing the edge of the setup you have in it. (based on how sensitive you've got it set.) it tells you when the tire is starting to spin up. It really is as ben and mat best described it "spin control.. Not traction control." that said, I've got the system on my 10R, and it really does help. It's an effective system and if it'll hook up my 10R, it'd hook up an RSV4 no problem.

jgos929
07-25-2011, 08:31 PM
Depends on how you look at it.

Most of us will believe the official story Yamaha's PR people released to the press, that someone's failure to turn on the TC caused Jorge to crash (he thought it was on).

But what if the TC was on all along but either was adjusted incorrectly or just plain malfunctioned?PR people don't always tell the truth, they are specialists at manipulating the truth in a way that does the least harm to the corporate image. After all, the PR dept works for the marketing dept.

My point is that it doesn't matter if your TC works or not, don't count on it to save you from a crash.



:plus:

You contradicted yourself with that statement.


And Yamaha PR saying the traction control wasn't on is a pretty lame lie if they were in fact lying. Why lie about the tc on Lorenzos bike but in Spies case come out and say a mechanic left a tool sticking out of his bike that in turn caused some hose to be dangling from the clipon which made Spies scared to ride the bike at a race pace for fear he was going to crash? Seems to me thats the one they should have covered up or lied about. Because that makes them look incompetent.

I agree you shouldnt rely on it even though motogp and wsbk rely on it heavily, because it can malfunction and may not save you. But a lot of times it will thats why its called Traction Control.

amauri
07-25-2011, 09:36 PM
You contradicted yourself with that statement.


Not the first time I'm sure.

I don't always believe what I hear.

PGrange
07-26-2011, 12:57 AM
According to Eurosport commentators it was the launch control that switched off his T/C. It does not re-activate until he changes down a gear allowing full power off the line.

If you listen to the on-board footage you can hear he only changes up, so the T/C was not re-activated after his practice start.

Peter

MarkyPancake
07-26-2011, 05:38 AM
Most of us will believe the official story Yamaha's PR people released to the press, that someone's failure to turn on the TC caused Jorge to crash (he thought it was on).

It goes to show how much they rely on electronics in MotoGP when they can't even get around a corner without traction control when not even going full race pace.

I would like to see launch control and traction control heavily reduced and the skill put back into the riders' hands.

Phunky Phish
07-26-2011, 06:31 AM
I don't think tc is foul proof. If your pushing and suddenly hit oil with your rear wheel your off, either lowside or via the heavens!!
However it will help to prevent this in most situations where grip remains stable, the bike remains stable and it's just a case of controlling power vs rear wheel grip.

That's my 2p

Chris_Mag
07-26-2011, 08:08 AM
If APRC is as useful as I have read, I'd rather have it than not. AWC sounds awesome also.

In particular, there are some trusted friends I've been hesitant to let ride the bike. Throw the bike in S mode, TC to 5 and AWC to 2 and then a little coaching on the general characteristics, and I'd have no problem letting my friend jump from his F650GS to the V4... it's RSV4 goodness with a little filtering to protect the innocent :)

Sure, it can't cure stupid, but it can smooth out the rough inputs a little.

illtal
07-26-2011, 12:45 PM
If APRC is as useful as I have read, I'd rather have it than not. AWC sounds awesome also.

In particular, there are some trusted friends I've been hesitant to let ride the bike. Throw the bike in S mode, TC to 5 and AWC to 2 and then a little coaching on the general characteristics, and I'd have no problem letting my friend jump from his F650GS to the V4... it's RSV4 goodness with a little filtering to protect the innocent :)

Sure, it can't cure stupid, but it can smooth out the rough inputs a little.

‪RawCut: 2011 Aprilia RSV4 Factory APRC SE. Unedited action and beauty shots‬‏ - YouTube

Micke65
07-26-2011, 03:17 PM
I have a feeling that thoose who not favor Tc "Aprc" dont have it but really want it deep deep inside :)

fastmike
07-26-2011, 04:47 PM
I wouldn't mind having it, but didn't want to wait the extra time for the bike to come out in the US and the extra $5-6,000 over the price of the 2010 Factory bike.

I also agree that riders now are overly reliant on electronics instead of skills. Not to say that they aren't skilled, but when you can adjust the electronics to each individual corner! Where is the fun in that....

amauri
07-26-2011, 05:08 PM
I have a feeling that thoose who not favor Tc "Aprc" dont have it but really want it deep deep inside :)

I don't have a V4.
I still prefer my old RSV2 for a street bike.

On a good day, I may be a better/faster rider than most of the guys/gals I ride with.
When that happens, I like to think it was all me, not my bike’s electronic aids that helped me ride at my best that day.

Like fastmike said, "Where is the fun in that...."

MilleR Time
07-27-2011, 12:14 AM
It goes to show how much they rely on electronics in MotoGP when they can't even get around a corner without traction control when not even going full race pace.

I would like to see launch control and traction control heavily reduced and the skill put back into the riders' hands.

I definitely don't think it's an issue of "can't," but when you expect it to be there and it isn't, a problem occurs. The bikes can be ridden slow just the same as fast. He just expected it to be enabled and it wasn't.. Simple mistake really.

I'm on the fence about rider aids. Yes for the sport I'd like to see the riders matter more than the technology. But here we are bragging about how good the Aprilia's system is. How do you think it got so great? Take the tech off the track and you won't see it in your garage either.

klowry
07-27-2011, 03:28 PM
I also agree that currently top professional racing is just as much about the rider as it is about who has the best technitions for their electronic set up. Josh Hayes is one of the few who still does not use traction control on the R1. Here is a vid of what racing used to be like at laguna without traction control. It became a battle of who could control the wheelies and acceleration the best while still trying to manage their tires. If they want to increase the grids and control costs they should Bring back the rider control and take away all the electronic aids,it will make it a lot cheaper for teams race and be competitive, and make for some fantastic racing again! As for losing the traction control for the street, I think much like ABS, you would still see it as an option, especially since the systems are already out their. Watch the vid, very entertaining.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=J7_WAeCe8oE#at=31

MarkyPancake
07-28-2011, 05:58 AM
Manufacturers keep saying they need to delevop TC in racing to filter down to road bikes, but how useful is it really on the street based on actual speed limits. ABS is probably a much more useful rider aid in the real world, yet that doesn't get the hard sell or developed in racing.

MilleR Time
07-28-2011, 11:06 AM
I think there is a lot more developed in racing than we realize, some makes it to consumer markets, some doesn't. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if ABS was developed on track.

As for "losing it," no, I don't think it would flat disappear but it would never improve. Much like EFI systems of '01 and '02.. Just because it was there doesn't mean there wasn't room for improvement. These days you don't even hear anyone mentioning the EFI feel of a bike because they developed it and it's just SO good on modern bikes. Eventually trac control will be the same way.. But it has to be developed to get to that point. Where better than the race track?

As for obeying posted speed limits etc on public roadways, we are all guilty of blissfully ignoring that.. So I don't think that's even really a valid argument. We know speed limits get broken, so do manufacturers, and none of us are too concerned with it.

potere
07-28-2011, 07:56 PM
I don't have a V4.
I still prefer my old RSV2 for a street bike.

On a good day, I may be a better/faster rider than most of the guys/gals I ride with.
When that happens, I like to think it was all me, not my bike’s electronic aids that helped me ride at my best that day.

Like fastmike said, "Where is the fun in that...."

Did you read Kevin Cameron's article on this subject this year in Cycle World? You could also say you'd like to use tires from 10 years ago to show more of your skill. Any item on the bike that aids you could be masking some skill, though. Is QS cheating too? Is having a gear shift pedal instead of a hand lever? I figure we put a line in the sand where we entered motorcycling and call that ground level.

fastmike
08-02-2011, 11:58 PM
I think you guys scared Simon off! Where did he go? Simon, where are you?