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mixR
04-02-2004, 05:44 PM
If I fit a PowerCommanderIII on a '04 with race cans, will I also need Map2?

stinky
04-02-2004, 06:44 PM
Yes.

Map 2 is the "open loop" map, and you don't want your ECU to be trying to "correct" all the good work the pc3 will be doing.

Polux RSV
04-03-2004, 02:34 AM
It is better to switch to map2 and then adjust your PCIII. It is possible that map2 has better ignition timings and the PCIII can't correct them.

Angelo

Thunder Factory
04-03-2004, 03:06 AM
Originally posted by mixR
If I fit a PowerCommanderIII on a '04 with race cans, will I also need Map2?

Mix R

It's like Stinky says, part of the set up for map 2 is to disable the sensors used for the cats in the stock cans.

Don't know if it's of interest but if your looking for a PC3 usb for the 04 I've got a group deal going for them by pre-ordering for the first batch at 217 delivered within the UK.

I'll personally be having a custonm map made, 2 in fact one with baffles and one without in my Tigs so I can switch between them when required.

If your in the market and interested drop me a mail or PM for details.

:peace:

Merto
04-03-2004, 05:13 AM
Originally posted by Thunder Factory
Mix R
Don't know if it's of interest but if your looking for a PC3 usb for the 04 I've got a group deal going for them by pre-ordering for the first batch at 217 delivered within the UK.

If your in the market and interested drop me a mail or PM for details.


You swine!!! Why do you have to go around tempting us like that....you have mail!!!
:D :D :D

clarkie49
04-03-2004, 08:45 AM
well there is good news and there is great news.......

the good news is that i just spent (well yesterday) 3 hours on the dyno with Hardcharger's 2004 RSV-R with the new pciii-usb.

his bike has the Milleman exhausts and Airkit, the bike made 123hp in converted dynojet numbers on the SAE scale.

when the bikes left our shop it made 129hp, yep, 6hp from the pciii-usb :rambo:

the really interesting thing was how the map looked, very interesting.

and no i dont have any left :banana:

Thunder Factory
04-03-2004, 08:55 AM
Clarkie

Did you use the feature on the USB version to map each cylinder seperately?

Any chance of a look at the map? I have the DJ software if you'd be prepared to mail it to me:D

clarkie49
04-03-2004, 09:11 AM
i didnt get time to do the individual cylinder maps,

i played with the cylinder trim a bit but it was pretty good stock.

i did install the Accelerator pump feature :banana:

i could 'sell' you a map, but it is still better to get custom map done.

lets just say that i added a heap of fuel down in the low rpm range but took a LOT of fuel out at high rpm

i will check the 'true hp' before and after numbers and the dj DIN scale a well when i get to work, you know, just to cover all the arguments :D

Thunder Factory
04-03-2004, 09:25 AM
I intend to have a custom map made for the bike when I get the PC3, actually I want 2 one with baffles and one without.

Good to hear it's worth getting:D

mixR
04-03-2004, 10:06 AM
Thanks for all the replys.
So I'm stuck until Aprilia finally decide to supply my dealer with the Map2 software.:mad:

Thunder.
If the Map2 is a prerequisite to a PCIII then I'll hold 'til it's done.
I don't want to spend any unnecessary cash on a bike which might on it's way out the door!

Clarkie.
Was your first post an answer to my question or were you just rubbing my nose in it?

Dvus
04-03-2004, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by clarkie49
well there is good news and there is great news.......

the good news is that i just spent (well yesterday) 3 hours on the dyno with Hardcharger's 2004 RSV-R with the new pciii-usb.

his bike has the Milleman exhausts and Airkit, the bike made 123hp in converted dynojet numbers on the SAE scale.

when the bikes left our shop it made 129hp, yep, 6hp from the pciii-usb :rambo:

the really interesting thing was how the map looked, very interesting.

and no i dont have any left :banana: Do you have a chart that you can post? I'd like to see where all the power is going to and how about the torque. It's amazing that the PC3 can improve the bike by 6HP. WOW!!!

Thunder Factory
04-03-2004, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by mixR
Thanks for all the replys.
So I'm stuck until Aprilia finally decide to supply my dealer with the Map2 software.:mad:

Thunder.
If the Map2 is a prerequisite to a PCIII then I'll hold 'til it's done.
I don't want to spend any unnecessary cash on a bike which might on it's way out the door!

?

MIXR

Does your dealer have the Axone then and is just waiting for the new version of the software to switch the maps?

clarkie49
04-03-2004, 11:14 AM
mixR - nah, i wasnt trying to rub anything in at all, but yes you will need to have the map 2 installed to get the mapping to work correctly.

i will try to scan the dyno graphs, we cant save the dyno graph image as a .jpg so i will have to scan it.

the bike makes more power everywhere, its basically a mirror image of the graph, just 4-6 hp everywhere.

i can fax it to someone here in the US and they can scan it and post it.

mixR
04-03-2004, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Thunder Factory
MIXR

Does your dealer have the Axone then and is just waiting for the new version of the software to switch the maps?

Yup, that's what I've been told. They've been waiting for 6-7 weeks now and Aprilia UK cannot give a delivery date! You'd think for the sake of customer satisfaction they'd make some sort of effort.
Makes you wonder what would happen if something serious went wrong if the customer service is this bad.
The shame is that the bike has so much potential but after this farce I have no trust in Aprilia UK and I'm ready to jump ship.:(
I'll give them a few more weeks.

Dvus
04-03-2004, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by clarkie49
mixR - nah, i wasnt trying to rub anything in at all, but yes you will need to have the map 2 installed to get the mapping to work correctly.

i will try to scan the dyno graphs, we cant save the dyno graph image as a .jpg so i will have to scan it.

the bike makes more power everywhere, its basically a mirror image of the graph, just 4-6 hp everywhere.

i can fax it to someone here in the US and they can scan it and post it. That is nice. Any improvements with torque?

clarkie49
04-03-2004, 12:45 PM
torque and hp are related, but yeah, more torque everywhere :banana:

Dvus do you have a fax# i can send you the graphs to?

Thunder Factory
04-03-2004, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by clarkie49
torque and hp are related, but yeah, more torque everywhere :banana:

Dvus do you have a fax# i can send you the graphs to?

Clarkie

I have a fax here, bit of a distance but I'll PM u the number just in case.

:peace:

Dvus
04-03-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by clarkie49
torque and hp are related, but yeah, more torque everywhere :banana:

Dvus do you have a fax# i can send you the graphs to? I have one at work. Just not here at home. If it hasn't been taken care of yet. I'll pm you the number on Monday. I also have a scanner there too.

Merto
04-03-2004, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by mixR
Yup, that's what I've been told. They've been waiting for 6-7 weeks now and Aprilia UK cannot give a delivery date! You'd think for the sake of customer satisfaction they'd make some sort of effort.
Makes you wonder what would happen if something serious went wrong if the customer service is this bad.
The shame is that the bike has so much potential but after this farce I have no trust in Aprilia UK and I'm ready to jump ship.:(
I'll give them a few more weeks.

Not related to Johnny Ringo are you...:p: Just kidding mate, has to be a bummer when things dont go to plan...

Are there no other dealers you could take the bike to....sounds like a good excuse for a long run.....
:peace:

mixR
04-04-2004, 03:32 AM
Definitely no relation!
I believe that, despite it's faults, the bike is a good piece of kit.:cool:
I can live with the rear brake fade and clutch drag because a re-bleed is a simple fix for me do at home.
The re-map however is out of my hands so I'm dependant on Aprilia and it's dealer support to help me out.
So far I have been let down.:confused:

Thunder Factory
04-04-2004, 04:50 AM
MIxR

It's interesting to note that part of the problem with the whole Axone issue with certain dealers was that while the Axone has been a requirement for servicing of some of the range since 2001 (Capanord, Futura Pegaso) not all dealers had one.

The mind boggles as to how they did the work on these bikes but with changes to the distribution structure back to Aprilias control (in the UK at least) the mistake that Aprilia made was in assumig all their official dealers had the equipment which was not the case.

This put a strain on supplies of the Axone but the software (version 5.2 ) has been arround since Noivemeber.

I can totally understand the frustreation you feel at the moment, but keeep chasing the dealer, it will be worth it in the long run.

:peace:

clarkie49
04-04-2004, 09:08 AM
thunder is right, here is the US the purchase of an Axone used to be an option, last year they made it a requirement. if this is the case worldwide it could be the reason for the short supply.

when we signed up as a Guzzi dealer we got shipped a second Axone that we returned as we already had one.

man, that Axone would be worth a lot of money on the black market right now :D

HARDCHARGER
04-04-2004, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by clarkie49
well there is good news and there is great news.......

the good news is that i just spent (well yesterday) 3 hours on the dyno with Hardcharger's 2004 RSV-R with the new pciii-usb.

his bike has the Milleman exhausts and Airkit, the bike made 123hp in converted dynojet numbers on the SAE scale.

when the bikes left our shop it made 129hp, yep, 6hp from the pciii-usb :rambo:

the really interesting thing was how the map looked, very interesting.

and no i dont have any left :banana:

Thanks Clarkie your the Man :D
Rain here in N.Y.:mad:
Will post my impressions as soon as I get out for a ride :banana:

HARDCHARGER
04-04-2004, 12:23 PM
Sorry Guys,
can't get the scan right of the "Clarkie Run"

Help anyone...anyone....anyone...:(

Thunder Factory
04-04-2004, 12:40 PM
Pictures speak louder than words, so check this out courtesy of HC and Clarkie:

Slopie
04-04-2004, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by mixR
Definitely no relation!
I believe that, despite it's faults, the bike is a good piece of kit.:cool:
I can live with the rear brake fade and clutch drag because a re-bleed is a simple fix for me do at home.
The re-map however is out of my hands so I'm dependant on Aprilia and it's dealer support to help me out.
So far I have been let down.:confused:

Hi mixR

Our dealer in australia logged on to Aprilia and downloaded another map. I have had maps 1,2 & 3 installed and found map 3 to be a lot smoother. Your dealer should be able to do the same.

Good luck


Slopie

zx6racer
04-04-2004, 07:45 PM
Map3 :WTF:

Dvus
04-04-2004, 08:06 PM
what's up with that dip at around 6400RPMS? can you tell the difference at around that?

Slopie
04-04-2004, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by zx6racer
Map3 :WTF:

Hi zx6

I dont know if it is actually called map three however our dealer had tried both maps 1 & 2. He then downloaded the new program from Aprilia and installed that on my bike.

It seems to run a lot smoother down low and seems to have just about fixed my idle on one cylinded problem. I will however need to get my after market timing and fuel map re-dynoed

Regards


Slopie

scott2ride
04-04-2004, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by clarkie49
his bike has the Milleman exhausts and Airkit, the bike made 123hp in converted dynojet numbers on the SAE scale.


Hey Clarkie, did it have the Flapa disconnected? I presume it did!

And do you think removal of the Labia does anything to improve power?

Cheers

clarkie49
04-05-2004, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by Dvus
what's up with that dip at around 6400RPMS? can you tell the difference at around that?

yeah not sure about that, it didnt show up on the step test, only on the sweep test. maybe the bike spun up with all that extra power :D

scott - everything helps, he has the airbox gutted and the flapper removed

map 3 - i have no idea about map 3, i know the axone is up to version 5.0.2, but we got told by a guy who knows a guy not to install version 5.0.1 or 5.0.2, but i cant tell you why :D

milleman
04-05-2004, 10:47 AM
Cool! 6 HP thats great!

Dvus
04-05-2004, 05:43 PM
Yeah I can't wait to get one. I spoke with Todd from the other aprilia forum he's the parts manager for calsportbikes and he says he'll be able to sell a PC3USB for $264 and should be available by the 2nd week of May also free shipping for aprilia-usa owners club members.

NoNick
04-05-2004, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by clarkie49


map 3 - i have no idea about map 3, i know the axone is up to version 5.0.2, but we got told by a guy who knows a guy not to install version 5.0.1 or 5.0.2, but i cant tell you why :D

I just had MAP2 installed. Don't know which version they have but I hope it won't damage my bike !!

clarkie49
04-05-2004, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by Dvus
Yeah I can't wait to get one. I spoke with Todd from the other aprilia forum he's the parts manager for calsportbikes and he says he'll be able to sell a PC3USB for $264 and should be available by the 2nd week of May also free shipping for aprilia-usa owners club members.

you are going to wait until may? :D

and then when they are delayed for another month you might get one in June :D

sorry, just giing you shit, its amazing how long people will wait to save a few bucks

Dvus
04-06-2004, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by clarkie49
you are going to wait until may? :D

and then when they are delayed for another month you might get one in June :D

sorry, just giing you shit, its amazing how long people will wait to save a few bucks Yeah. I know. I just don't have the need for it quite yet. I enjoy it all as the bike is right now. Soon I'll get that PC3 whenever it is released. but I am a cheap skate:D :D Once I do add that new device.

So do you still suggest a fuel pressure modifier with the PC3USB and how much of an improvement can it provide?????

clarkie49
04-06-2004, 07:12 AM
from what i saw on the fuel table i ended up with, no.

the fuel pressure on the few 04's i have checked is back down at around 43psi and the map is lean in places, rich in places and spot-on in other places.

that was on the bike with airkit and pipe mod, i still believe for a highly modified motor the extra fuel pressure will work to help in other ways, but if you increase the pressure to 48psi you will spend a lot more time taking fuel away.

the bike is really fat at 60, 80, 100% throttle positions so adding fuel pressure will make it richer

when i mapped the bike i mapped 5-40% throttle positions at 3% CO which gives you your fuel economy, and 60-100% at 4.5% CO which is the best fuel mixture for power.

milleman
04-12-2004, 02:51 PM
Did it still have the stock filter? He had my pipes and air kit.... also what was the baseline for the stock bike on your dyno?

Thanks :cool:

clarkie49
04-12-2004, 03:11 PM
with your pipes, airkit, evo filter (i installed before the run) it made 123hp or 124hp.

finished with 129.6hp.

a bone stock 04 makes around 119hp on our dyno

these are all dj-converted #'s as our scale is true hp (well land $ sea's version of ture hp as they claim factory pro is wrong.....yeah i know :rolleyes: )

Dvus
04-12-2004, 08:44 PM
stock 119 and with the airbox kit and pipes an increase of 4 to 5 Hp and nearly 10 where it counts in the mid end dip. Dude I can feel the difference of 4 to 5hp adding another 6hp overall DAMN!!!! I CANNOT WAIT FOR THE PCIII USB Good job Clarkie. You think there's any way of squeezing more out if you had spent more time dialing in the individual cylinders?

clarkie49
04-12-2004, 10:19 PM
there is always more :rambo:

i know of a certain race bike on the west coast that only has the aprilia full system, evo airbox full map and race gas......135hp at the wheel :banana:

Dvus
04-12-2004, 11:27 PM
Wow! But then again that's race gas too. How much does it translate with pump gas and is it the same dyno you use?

clarkie49
04-13-2004, 06:56 AM
its a dynojet dyno, it would still be around 130-132hp.

we have a dynojet 'fudge-factor' we punch in to get from what our dyno reads to a dynojet dyno, we also have another 'fudge-factor' to go from our dyno to the Factory Pro dyno :)

scott2ride
04-13-2004, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by clarkie49
we have a dynojet 'fudge-factor' we punch in to get from what our dyno reads to a dynojet dyno, we also have another 'fudge-factor' to go from our dyno to the Factory Pro dyno :)

Hey Clarkie....do you use that same "Fudge Factor" program to get the bikes from 119hp to 129.6hp? :D

That must be the innovative Kiwi side of you shining through.:banana:

clarkie49
04-13-2004, 05:23 PM
i can 'make' a RSV read 500hp, doesnt mean it is making that much :D

when we do the dynojet fudge factor its them same as when Factory tells you it is their hp x 1.15 +-2%

thats why we do a before and after :)

if you get a 5% gain in power it is 5%, doesnt matter if you measure it in sheep or carrots, 5% is still 5%

and Scott, everyone knows you would be happy with another 5% sheep in your backyard

scott2ride
04-13-2004, 05:55 PM
I can barely look after the ones I have now. These Ewes are so demanding!

And just like the real wife...they still complain when you ride the bike instead of them :bitchslap . :D

whemmle
04-13-2004, 05:55 PM
Again, that is some of the best work I have seen out of someone on a new bike. Thanks for all of your hard work for the rest of us! I am SURE it will pay off for you in the end. BTW...spending $500 on 5% may seem like a lot...but I just spent $1850 on about 5%...I like Clarkie's deal a LOT better!