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View Full Version : AF1's Dorso 1200 Demo is up and going...



Ed / AF1 Racing
06-02-2011, 04:16 PM
Finally got our demo DD1200 in stock, and prepped up. Going to take it out tonight to start logging some miles....cant wait, as I still havent ridden one yet.


Come by tomorrow for a test ride...

Racerx43
06-02-2011, 09:28 PM
You back yet? It's dark out... surely you've got something to tell us Ed.....

redduro
06-03-2011, 03:21 PM
OK ED, unless you bit the dust, you better be givin some details. This is some serious info we need to know. Is it worth an upgrade from the DD750?

Ed / AF1 Racing
06-03-2011, 03:27 PM
I like so far....feels like a 750 on steriods.....felt the same weight to me, Jon said it did feel a little heavier to him.

Still breaking it in and playing with it so we cant go full throttle, but its was VERY torquey. I was lighting up the tire at very light throttles and lifting the front wheel with ease. Gearbox shifts are firm and solid, clutch and brakes feel good. Suspension is nicer than the 750, and so are the brakes.

negatives--Wish the mapping was a little better, I already emailed the Tech Dept to see what can be done, she's a bit lean and poppy at low revs and throttles. Little herky-jerky letting off the throttle. Hopefully, they release a new map soon. If not, we already are working on a solution, it uses same injectors connectors as the Tuonos, and same Lambda as many other Aprilias so we have a tuning solution real easy.

jrflanne
06-03-2011, 03:52 PM
Maybe I'll head out there one of these days and break it in/up a bit for ya.

Micah / AF1 Racing
06-03-2011, 04:21 PM
Flannery...that is not a bad idea. I have been playing with it half the day sorting a couple of minor issues that bothered me but it needs REAL miles put on it! The 29 miles accumulated between yesterday and today are not going to add up to 600 very quickly and apparently you do not even get full power till 600 or so miles?

It is fast, your T1102cc is still faster. Mapping is poor but will be easy enough to fix as mentioned by Ed. I like the T mode more than S and R as usual is just plain lame!

I think with very little work this bike will make excellent power and loose 20 lbs or so, 40 lbs is possible with wheels and creative weight reduction. As mentioned the bottom end is not as strong as I expected (below 2500rpm) but from 3k rpm up the thing plain HITS!

Chassis is VERY good, brakes are excellent, seat is quite comfortable for me as are bars and such.

I am off to Central America for the next two weeks so I issue a challenge to all of you local Aprilia riders...MAKE SURE IT HAS 600 MILES ON IT WHEN I RETURN SO I CAN GET ON WITH MAKING IT SCARY FAST!!!

jrflanne
06-03-2011, 04:24 PM
29 miles??? Wow, you guys must have toured all the way to... MacDonald's. :p:

Seriously, I will take it for a spin although I don't really want one. However, if Aprilia would put that package in something a bit more practical...

redduro
06-03-2011, 08:00 PM
Hmm, interesting stuff. So its literally programmed in the ECU to limit power until 600mi? Makes me wonder what kind of power its putting down now vs. after 600mi. A dyno will tell soon enuff. Thankx guys, compelling. :)

Centerline
06-03-2011, 08:20 PM
My 1200 is loosening up nicely, closing in on 1,000 miles. The comments about little torque until 3000, for sure that is a good thing (for the micro-second) that the bike will be less than 3,000 RPM in 1st..... otherwise, unless you climb over the bars, the front end would not stay down. No 90 degree twin Ducati I have ever ridden has had anything available until 4,000 RPM, below that, with open throttle a Ducat just bucks and stumbles.
The map on my 1200 is way smoother at low throttle than my 750DD ever dreamed of being, even with a MemJet module device. For sure the 1200 is touchy in sport mode (my favorite mode) but it can be ridden it comfortably at 20 mph in first, and smoothly as well at low RPM in 2nd 3rd 4th 5th and 6th.

I think that tho the manual hints that the 1200 restricts itself thru the ECU for the first 248 miles, the warning light was set to warn at 6k RPM, but the warning did not set itself higher when 248 miles was passed. I don't know if there is any limiting in the ECU until 248 miles, cause the bike didn't feel any different, other than continuing to limber up.
I agree whole-heartedly about the really fabulous suspension and the superior Brembo stoppers.

There is a small issue with coolant seeping from the water pump cover. Loosening and retorqueing the fasteners did not correct the slight seep. We think perhaps a gasket or maybe o-ring is missing from the water pump cover. Also forward and low on the WP cover is a metal vent tube. On all 750DD's I have looked at, there is a rubber drain tube attached to the vent. It is not on my bike or the dealers' other 1200DD. Aprilia (at least as of today) does not yet have the parts or part numbers available for the 1200, so come on US Aprilia, get it together.

redduro
06-03-2011, 11:24 PM
Dang, I hate it that you got a leak, that kinda sux. Warranty time. Yeah I guess I may try to find a 1200 to demo, my closest shop only has one (white) and its not even serviced yet. Selling my 750 if anyone is interested. Akras, leo vince cat elim. Memjet, lots of other goodies. only 583 miles!! In western KY.

jrflanne
06-04-2011, 04:22 AM
If Aprilia would take that package and build a street bike. Bags. Faring. Comfort. Something like a GS without the dirt bike pretense. Gravel road worthy only. Looks. I'm just not sold on the fat-tard concept but it would make a nice replacement for the Caponord. The Dorso is like the hypertard and I don't want one of those either. But I do look forward to riding the 1200 and I will bet it is one fine running machine. I look forward to comparing it to my 1102 Tuono sex machine. It is quite possibly a better motorcycle than the Tuono, but I doubt it can match the visceral bastardness the Tuono offers.

I have a genius idea. Toss my Nera wheels on the Dorso for grins. Tuono is in the shop anyway and I'm not going to be gathering it anytime real soon. Bet it would look badass.

Micah / AF1 Racing
06-04-2011, 07:27 AM
Damnit Jack...that is a good fuggin' idea! I like it!

jrflanne
06-04-2011, 12:28 PM
Well, since you seem to be screwing around the shop and not on vacation, have at it.

Micah / AF1 Racing
06-04-2011, 12:30 PM
Screwed around a bit more with the D1200 today....It needs to breathe, stock it is way stronger than a stock Tuono but not as strong as a modded Tuono yet...more to come of course!

Here is dead stock for dead stock D12 vs T08 on the dyno...and both in this case are literally showroom stock bikes! I knew the D12 felt faster than a stock Tuono...and now the motor needs to finish breaking in and get past any limitations (if there really are any) set by the computer.

The ECU does "seem" to be learning a little, like an STFT or LTFT thing. (short term fuel trim/long term fuel trim). The motor has gotten smoother over the last hundred miles and fueling a little better, it is however still a rather emissions compliant engine. (lean) Mixture same as on the 750cc siblings is VERY lean at very light loads but damn near perfect at WFO.

Come on down and DEMO the thing guys and gals, it needs a lot more miles on it before I can get any real hard data. I just wanted to share this so you guys all know it is definitely not a puss of an engine! In the graph the Dorso 1200cc is Red and the stock Tuono is Blue trace. Solid lines are bhp (add 15-17% to get Dynojet/magazine number), dashed line is torque and bottom line of dots is fuel mixture expressed in Carbon Monoxide. With a set of pipes, an open intake and a bit of tuning this is going to get interesting real quick!

Micah / AF1 Racing
06-04-2011, 03:04 PM
More dramatic...Dorso 750cc in Blue, Dorso 1200cc in Red. This is a real mean comparison, so if you are on the fence about which Dorso you want and power is the "decider" then I can help with the decision making process!

jrflanne
06-04-2011, 03:09 PM
Goddam, ain't no replacement for displacement. I'll bet that thing will get stronger with some miles on it.

redduro
06-04-2011, 04:59 PM
So it looks like based off that dyno comparison that the DD1200 may see around 118 RWhp and 75ftlbs in a magazine type dyno?? Hmm, I figured it would be like an older SV1000, around 110RWhp and 70ish ftlbs. Not bad but for 1200cc i would like to see it hit 1198 type numbers, 134RWhp and 84ftlbs!! at least compete with a Ducati streetfighter.

Micah / AF1 Racing
06-04-2011, 06:29 PM
The Dorso had a good day on the dyno, now that a lot more miles on her I did not feel bad about hitting her with too much load.

These pics are all taken at about 7-8k rpm in steady state on the Factory Pro EC997 dyno. Some are under heavy load and some are just cruising during my "easy" (too hot to ride at 102F right now) additional break in miles on the dyno.

The color of the pipes is not from lean or rich really, some of these were at near perfect mixture and others it was definitely running on the lean side to keep the stock catalyzers happy. This heat coloration is very common with stock pipes which have both a catalyst and a restrictive silencer, plenty of pressure to transfer heat into the thinwall stainless of the headers! Pretty sweet photo shoot and the last you guys hear from me for a couple of weeks....off to Costa Rica now!!!

redduro
06-04-2011, 10:22 PM
Sheez, now thats hot!! Summer hit hard here too, got a reading of 100 downtown earlier. Humidity 100%. Its naked weather.:devil:

Centerline
06-05-2011, 02:14 AM
FANTASTIC !!!! Thanks so much for posting your dyno run. Great to see where to put the gear shift RPM warning which for me will be at 8800. No need now to dyno my beast until maybe after some new slip-ons and getting the airbox opened some.
Awesome photos of those red-hot pipes!

As Micah posted, it is positively NOT a puss of an engine. After 2 years on the 750DD I can tell you that full acceleration in RAIN mode on the 1200 feels to MY butt the same as full acceleration of the 750DD in Sport mode. No kidding, the 1200 acceleration is truly awesome, until about 120mph then aero drag starts to slow the adding of additional knots

jrflanne
06-05-2011, 01:40 PM
The hot pipe shots would look sooo much better with my Nera's on that bike. About a perfect color match as near as I can tell. I do hope to drop by N.B. for a bit this week and take that beast for a spin.

Gabro
06-06-2011, 03:27 AM
micah could you post a graph about the DD1200 VS a mild tuned TuonoV2 (i.e. slip-ons, map var2)?!?!

Micah / AF1 Racing
06-06-2011, 01:19 PM
Gabro, I can when I get back in a couple of weeks. At airport headed to the South by a couple thousand miles. Pura Vida homies!

redduro
06-06-2011, 05:01 PM
Awe u lucky man, have a safe trip, take plenty of pics if you hit a nude beach :worship:

jrflanne
06-06-2011, 05:16 PM
Awe u lucky man, have a safe trip, take plenty of pics if you hit a nude beach :worship:

Micah is probably going to be looking for monkey money shots! :p:

Gabro
06-06-2011, 06:59 PM
have fun!!!

:funnypost:funnypost:funnypost

mxracer14
06-07-2011, 05:06 PM
Hi guys,i'm selling my750(1700mi on it),waiting for 1200 white.will arrows and memjet fit on 1200?

Ed / AF1 Racing
06-07-2011, 05:19 PM
750 pipes will not work on the 1200...

Memjet, who knows....we dont use them, as we're working on real tuning solutions not funny temperature sensor tricks.

Centerline
06-08-2011, 04:41 PM
Don't have the need on the 1200, (at least on mine) for the low-partial throttle smoothing that the MemJet did for my 750. The 1200 is quite well behaved at low speed partial to closed throttle ops. Sport mode is still quite abrupt and nearly explosive with small throttle angle changes from low speeds:)

AV8OR
06-08-2011, 07:28 PM
Centerline...im curious about your avatar? Where was it taken and what aircraft? Looks like an F-4.

Centerline
06-08-2011, 09:11 PM
AV80R, I took that photo from the front seat of a USMC F4 Phantom in 1977. It was in the California or Nevada desert south of Hoover dam at about 100 ft and 420 knots.

CessnaTPA
06-09-2011, 04:58 AM
AV80R, I took that photo from the front seat of a USMC F4 Phantom in 1977. It was in the California or Nevada desert south of Hoover dam at about 100 ft and 420 knots.

How many hrs do you have? What other jets have u flown?

Centerline
06-11-2011, 07:58 AM
CessnaTPA,
Total time about 17,000 hours, 750 in Phantoms. Other military jets T2, A4.
Civil jets, Lear, Citation, DC9, DC10, B727-757-767-777.

AV8OR
06-11-2011, 10:18 AM
Great photo! I only get to 100ft on a guns pass and were not at 400kts!

redduro
06-22-2011, 09:19 PM
Ed/Micah? What brands of exhaust are coming soon for the DD12? I figured Akrapovic, Leo Vince and Arrow would have jumped all over this one and had them out by now. So have you guys put a HP/TQ number to the DD12 yet? Im figuring 116/73. How is the ECU and potential for tuning compared to the DD750? I hope there is more available than a "memjet" trick for the airbox. Lastly, since the catylizers are in the tail exhausts, how much weight can be shed by dumping those boat anchors?:)

Centerline
06-22-2011, 11:40 PM
Got this Email from Moto Mivv just yesterday....
"Hello,

the Dorsoduro 1200 is in our plans, but there isn't a date of issue yet.

You'll find all the updates on our website www.mivv.it

Cordiali saluti ------ Best regards "

And also this email from Arrow......
"Hello Steve,
Sorry we don't have Dorsoduro 1200 aftermarket system.
Regards"
_____

Adele di Corato -
Customer Relations Manager

redduro
06-23-2011, 03:22 AM
Well, thats strange. I guess these manufacturers dont expect the DD12 to sell very well or there has not been a demand for aftermarket exhausts yet. Either way I expected the big name companys to have exhausts ready at launch or soon after anyway. I would really like to see the potential of the DD12 with fuel tuning and an exhaust before I take the plunge and get one, this delay or lack of interest by the aftermarket is worrying. Guess they need a good,, :crowbar:

redduro
06-23-2011, 03:32 AM
Come to think of it, the American mags and websites have not even done tests on the DD12 and submitted reviews showing dynos or anything! Its like it doesnt even exist. I would have expected big shootouts with the HM1100 evo and KTM 990SMR at the very least. I saw the one by MCN, but it was hardly a real review, they rode the bikes up the road and back and declared the DD12 a heavy, boring sport tourer pretty much. Im very disapointed with the lack of coverage its getting. Ducati brought out the misfit Diavel that has no category to call home and they shat their pants trying to compliment that thing. Now they stick it in the cruiser category and say it whips ass,, really? A superbike motor stuck in a monster chassis can beat a 750lb cruiser? Who da thunk it? Put it up against its real competition, the Suzuki B-King and Yamaha V-Max, it will get murdered!

Tuono.ch
06-23-2011, 03:41 AM
totally agree!

at least leovince showing something: http://www.leovince.com/en/catalog-aprilia/terminale_factory_omologato_evo_ii_passaggio_stand ard_dorsoduro_1200_i_e_2011/13837

Gabro
06-23-2011, 03:49 AM
the DD12 a heavy, boring sport tourer pretty much.

i did my personal demo ride 2 weeks ago, and I totally agree with MCN... I was hoping to find a good replacemente for my old street Tuono, but the DD1200 is not... i really didn't enjoyed the ride, did not liked the bike at all. there's nothing good other than a good motor and a very good look.

redduro
06-23-2011, 09:33 AM
I agree, it is a bit of a lard. Come to think of it, show me an Ape that isnt overly heavy? The DD750 is at least 60 lbs too robust, same with the DD12, I could get around the fact if the DD12 weighed what the DD750 weighs, but for it to be pushing close to 500 lbs wet is a little baffling. I imagine the steel trellis and sub frame is heavy, the cast wheels and swingarm are anchors too. Look at the RSV4-R, even it tops the list as the pig in the liter bike war, except maybe the fugly Yammy R1, which needs a complete overhaul now. In all fairness comparing the Tuono to a big SUMO type bike is unfair, the tuono is a naked streetfighter bike, it has to be compared to the likes of the Z1000, monsters, FZ1, speed triple, super duke, b-king types. In the world of relaxed dirtbike type SUMO's I think the DD12 more than holds its own, until Ducati shoves the 1198 superbike motor in the HMotard chassis!! then its all over.

Centerline
06-23-2011, 02:50 PM
Somebody with accurate scales needs to weigh the two bikes side by side. To me, the 1200 does not feel much heavier than the Ducati Hypertard 1100, and it feels just a tad heavier than my 750 did. As I said earlier it DOES feel way lighter than my KTM 950 Adventure which KTM claims weights about 50 lbs lighter than the 1200.
When the mags get along with an actual road test of the 1200 or a comparo to like bikes, I would expect it will be able to hold its own in the twisties, we'll see. I am also estimating the 1200, in skilled hands will be turning about a 10.5 second 1/4 mile at about 130.

Centerline
06-23-2011, 02:58 PM
totally agree!

at least leovince showing something: http://www.leovince.com/en/catalog-aprilia/terminale_factory_omologato_evo_ii_passaggio_stand ard_dorsoduro_1200_i_e_2011/13837

That is good news from Leo Vince. Looks like I will purchase a set from them, if they are first to market. I had the Leo de-kat headpipes on my dd750, a quality piece of kit it was.

Tuono.ch
06-23-2011, 04:32 PM
indeed! but only god knows how long it takes, its on "coming soon" since i got the DD12. and thats 2 months now.. :/

same in suspensions, i contacted the official swiss importer of Íhlins, the guy wrote that in late summer/fall this year they offer a solution for the DD12. we will see..

Tuono.ch
06-27-2011, 09:25 AM
looks like there already available in italy?!
http://www.motup.com/venditaonlineprod_4077_Terminale+Factory+omologato +Evo+II+Titanio+Aprilia+Dorsoduro+1200.html

Ed / AF1 Racing
06-27-2011, 10:49 AM
The Leos are not ready to order yet....Italy doesnt have them in stock yet.

We have some on order from Leo Vince USA already.

Centerline
06-27-2011, 11:31 PM
The Leos are not ready to order yet....Italy doesnt have them in stock yet.

We have some on order from Leo Vince USA already.
I'll buy a pair from you when you can get them.

Buck80mph
06-29-2011, 04:57 PM
Centerline have you ever ridden a speed triple? Just wondering how they compare in power with each other. I know the stats on paper, but was curious about how they felt compared to one another.

Centerline
06-30-2011, 07:55 AM
Centerline have you ever ridden a speed triple? Just wondering how they compare in power with each other. I know the stats on paper, but was curious about how they felt compared to one another.
I have only ridden a new 2007 Speed Triple. I liked it very much, but at the time, went instead with a new 2007 Ducati Monster S4RS. I liked it more than the triple, the ergos of the Monster felt better for me. That said, I like the ergos of the 1200 better than the Monster.
The 1200 will, I believe leave both in early acceleration up to maybe 80 mph, then I think both the triple and S4RS would leave the 1200. In tight twisties with equally skilled riders, I believe the 1200 would leave the other 2 bikes.

Buck80mph
06-30-2011, 10:08 AM
I have only ridden a new 2007 Speed Triple. I liked it very much, but at the time, went instead with a new 2007 Ducati Monster S4RS. I liked it more than the triple, the ergos of the Monster felt better for me. That said, I like the ergos of the 1200 better than the Monster.
The 1200 will, I believe leave both in early acceleration up to maybe 80 mph, then I think both the triple and S4RS would leave the 1200. In tight twisties with equally skilled riders, I believe the 1200 would leave the other 2 bikes.

Very good info! Thank you!

redduro
07-01-2011, 09:02 PM
OMG! Guess what I went N did? My B-King is gone, traded for the DD1200!! Centerline you're not kidding, the 1200 has wayyy more motor than the 750. However, its a far cry from the B-King, I knew that going in to the trade power wise the DD would be no match, but its close to 90lbs lighter than my old B-king and its very evident out riding, torque wise its very easy to loft the wheel in the first two gears, so its like the b-king in that regard. I guess the guys were in a hurry to close shop and my DD1200 is stuck in KPH, how do I get it into MPH?? I looked at the menu and settings but couldn't find where to change that. Any advice? Oh, and I like the DD1200 a lot, much better than my DD750. Shes a white one too!!:)

redduro
07-01-2011, 09:17 PM
Update: I did a search and found the dash code thanks to LANIE,, its 98789 for the DD1200. Got her all switched over to mph. Thanks again Lanie.

Centerline
07-01-2011, 09:45 PM
A B-King guy! Have a friend with one and aftermarket cans. He weighs some 50+ lbs more than another friend with a new gen V-Max, the VMax modded to put about 200RWHP, the B-King with just pipes. They did a roll on from about 25mph, and the BKing pulled slightly away from the Max for the few seconds they got on it together..... really impressive acceleration.

redduro
07-02-2011, 09:32 AM
Oh yeh, the KING has some beans but Im diggin the Sumo scene right now plus I love Vtwins, Ive owned a TL1000S, an RC51, DD750 and a Yammy warrior, something about the grunt and throb of a vtwin is just fun! My current stable of steeds are a street legal WR450f with continental twin duro tires, a KTM 690 smc and my new thumper DD1200. I pretty much have all the bases covered with those 3 bikes.

redduro
07-02-2011, 09:44 AM
Ha Ha, Centerline I just noticed what you have written below, Truer words were never spoken and so many people dont see it coming.

redduro
07-05-2011, 05:15 PM
new DD12:p:

Centerline
07-05-2011, 06:25 PM
Nice stable of bikes there, Redduro.
The Greek financial thing.... yes I think it will reach up and bite everybody in the butt, sooner rather than later. Portugal today downgraded. So the finance dreamers (banksters) were ecstatic last week when Greece susposedly ironed everything out, so more money could be "lent" to pay their bills from the last showering of Euros last year. I think actually the ECB is more interested in bailing out French banks.

redduro
07-05-2011, 10:11 PM
yeh, I am amazed they have been able to prop up the economy here like they have. Of course its easy to print money like there is no tomorrow, its just paper, fiat money for everyone!!:lol:

redduro
07-05-2011, 10:14 PM
On another note, Centerline did you have anything done about the fluid leak? Im pretty sure I noticed a few dried water spots around my cover too. Its not alot, just enough to keep an eye on.

Centerline
07-07-2011, 02:01 AM
On another note, Centerline did you have anything done about the fluid leak? Im pretty sure I noticed a few dried water spots around my cover too. Its not alot, just enough to keep an eye on.
No; weeks later, still awaiting parts from Italy.

redduro
07-08-2011, 07:10 PM
Hey Centerline, whats the fix? New gasket material? Torque specs? I also wonder if this is going to end up being a service bulletin sent out to owners.

redduro
07-14-2011, 08:42 PM
Hey Ed, Have you guys decided for sure what direction to go for tuning the DD12? ECU reflash?, piggyback?, etc. Centerline will be the first to dive into this arena I guess with the Arrow slip-ons.:burnout:

Nevermind, my answer was in this thread: ECU Unleashed - Light at the end of the tunnel

Centerline
07-14-2011, 09:17 PM
For the water pump cover..... Ducati 1215 3 bond liquid silicon gasket sealant. I think newer Ducatis are without gaskets these days and they use this stuff. Don't recall the torque specs (aging issue) but it is not much.