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Johnny Ringo
03-18-2004, 10:38 PM
My rear brake hasnt worked from day one , and i thought
my dealer had the clutch fixed at the 600 mile service ,
but now it is right back where it was.
I am starting to think that i should have gone with
the GSXR 1000 Suzuki.:(

kwagga
03-19-2004, 02:56 AM
Johnny,

Most bikes rear brakes are weak, this is because feeling and feedback from your boot (foot) is nearly 0, the manufacturers don't want you to lock the back up ... for obvious reasons. As for the clutch problem I donít know Ö wish I could help you, the Aprilia is such a GOOD bike. Maybe try a different dealer, could be that your dealer is not up to scratch. Have had 0 problems with my factory and have done 3000km.

Hope things get better.

mille-ryan
03-19-2004, 03:46 AM
Your not alone man, most of us have had no rear brake and or clutch probs due to the hydraulics. I would be completely happy if the rear worked like my old R-1 did, it was great, never a prob, same with the TLR.

Johnny Ringo
03-19-2004, 10:59 AM
Get this,
My mechanic just talked to Aprilia tech support and
they told him not having a rear brake is a "characteristic"
of the bike. My mechanic thinks the problems have
something to do with the hydralics.
Today the front brake has also gotten worse!
So now the clutch and BOTH brakes are not working
right.
I have had the bike less than 2 months and only
put 1,050 miles on it . I had a Harley that i unloaded
after only 6 months because of problems , its looking
like this bike might not be around that long!:mad:

clarkie49
03-19-2004, 11:04 AM
give you $2000 for it, just to make your pain go away :D

Dvus
03-19-2004, 11:15 AM
I'd flush the fluids and add brand new dot4, but yeah I'd buy your problem bike for $2001;)

Johnny Ringo
03-19-2004, 11:20 AM
They have already flushed the fluids and are using
dot 4, nothing seems to help.
It has been to the shop 3 times for these problems.

$12,000 and its yours!

mossback
03-19-2004, 11:33 AM
Hang in there it'll get worked out and fixed. Sorry you are having such issues most of us have a bug or two but they are fixable.

2003$:D

DockingPilot
03-21-2004, 06:21 PM
Highlander,
I caught this from another RSV site referring to your problem:
"You have to remove the 2 bolts on the caliper. Free it from it's mounts and position the bleeder towards the top and bleed the brakes. Get all the air out. Re-attach it and bam! you have rear brake! The stopping power with the rear brake bled is soooo much better!!"
I share you opinion on the rear brake. Nothing brakes quite like the KRS ha ? Nothing weighs like it either though!
:eek:

Norcal Factory
03-22-2004, 03:45 PM
The rear brake really works great - after it's bled correctly - for a few weeks. I coudn't believe how much beter it was after following directions posted by others on this board. I removed the caliper tied it up so the nipple was the highest point and it went from no effect to almost can lock up the wheel - just the way I like it.

The clutch is constantly getting air in it too - now I bleed the nipple on the top of the lever and it is fine for a few rides. A new lever and slave cylinder are on order at the shop. We should all work with our dealers untill we get good parts.

badmotorscooter
03-22-2004, 04:01 PM
I agree. You should not accept anything other than full functionality. This is a very expensive machine, and we should expect quality performance in all of its aspects.

I have had no problems in the 600 miles I have put on, but it would frustrate me greatly if I ran into this.

Regards.

Johnny Ringo
03-22-2004, 10:33 PM
The clutch & brakes have some glitches, but there is
nothing wrong with that BAD ASS V Twin motor.
She hit 177 m.p.h. today !!!!

Life begins at 170 !:peace:

Aprilia94
03-23-2004, 10:57 AM
Well, at least that's what her speedo hit...nontheless, you are certainly hauling the mail!!! Any chance you could bring her to the track? I've known street guys that have been killed and seriously maimed, although I can say the exact same thing for racing...but it's way safer and I hate to see a fellow rider killed on the street. I'm not trying to be the mom...it's just sooooo much more fun and safer on the track!

Aprilia94
03-23-2004, 10:59 AM
Johnny: I was assuming you were on the street, I really don't know. Don't get me wrong man, have fun - not everyone will race. Enjoy!

mossback
03-23-2004, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Aprilia94
Johnny: I was assuming you were on the street, I really don't know. Don't get me wrong man, have fun - not everyone will race. Enjoy!

But what if you are on a big deserted hunk of highway? Still safer on the track? Not to hijack this thread but...:confused:

Johnny in Oz
03-23-2004, 09:01 PM
I have had the same problem on my Factory since new and the first service when I pointed out the problem . . . still zip in the rear.

The dealer actually claimed to have "fixed" the problem, but added that some bikes simply don't really have a rear brake, citing the Triumph (speed triple I think) as one such bike which, according this dealer anyway, officially describes the rear brake as a "rear rudder".

Well I just don't buy that! Every other bike I've ever owned in the last 25+ years has been able to lock up the rear, if that's what I wanted.

Can anyone explain why you would need to remove the 2 bolts on the caliper and position the bleeder towards the top in order to bleed the brakes? I'd just like to be forearmed when I take the bike back to the dealer.:shooter:

John

mossback
03-23-2004, 09:05 PM
Air rises.

Felix Da Cat
03-24-2004, 03:02 PM
Just back from my trip - 4,300km in 7days (a lot of partying inbetween slowed the riding down :D )

Well, I'm at the 6th or 7th clutch bleed (not sure, have to check my records), and now the rear brake too. Definitely heat related as per my previous observation.

Brembo is the biggest crap that I have had to deal with. When they work, they're great, but it has ZERO consistancy. I'm seriously considering changing it for something that works ALL the time - maybe even Suzuki parts :eek:

I'm at a loss as why Aprilia don't get this shit sorted out already. It has been an issue with previous models and not any better now.

MikeRSVR
04-27-2004, 12:34 PM
I put an evoluzione banjo bolt with bleeder on the rear brakes last week. Made bleeding easier.

http://www.evoluzione.net/assets/images/90040.jpg

Slopie
04-28-2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by DockingPilot
Highlander,
I caught this from another RSV site referring to your problem:
"You have to remove the 2 bolts on the caliper. Free it from it's mounts and position the bleeder towards the top and bleed the brakes. Get all the air out. Re-attach it and bam! you have rear brake! The stopping power with the rear brake bled is soooo much better!!"
I share you opinion on the rear brake. Nothing brakes quite like the KRS ha ? Nothing weighs like it either though!
:eek:

I bled mine after undoing the RH pipe and moove aside, undo brake hose cover under swing arm, manouver brake caliper up next to the seat and suspend it with rope from ceiling, bleed brakes and use at least four full brake fluid resevoirs, let sit for 30 minutes, tap hose with a plastic ruler, do final bleed.

It may take more than four brake resevoirs of fluid.

My brakes are rock solid and work better than new however still not as powerfull as some other bikes.

Still like to know how the air gets in there in the first place.

Good Luck

Regards


Slopie

hakan_olsson
04-29-2004, 01:10 AM
This is the best rear brake I've ever had. Weak as hell and looong range in force on the pedal from light touch to full..Perfect. That makes it controllable when you are maybe at 97% weight transfer on the front. It's a great feeling being able to control the rear wheel right at the border of lock up.

zx6racer
04-29-2004, 06:13 AM
Since air rises open the tanks tierap the levers open for 30min. and for the back just add some weight to a string to hold the rear brake down you will get all the air out thats what I did :D

rsvrtosh
04-29-2004, 08:57 AM
i have been told the problem with the back brake is the position of the reservoir it gets the heat off the engine and gives us the problems

Ronin69
04-29-2004, 09:53 AM
I had the same problem with my rear brake bleed it several times both myself and the dealer could never get it to work right. finally bought a new master cyclinder and it has worked great ever since! never had a problem with my clutch. 15000 miles on my 00.5 and still going strong ? In fact can anyone tell me how long this clutch should last before it needs to be replaced. on average ofcourse. i know different riders will need a new clutch sooner or in some cases later. the only other problem i had with this great bike was that damn kickstand safety switch, but that was nothng some pliers and electrical tape couldn't fix!:)

RSVRJIM
04-29-2004, 11:44 AM
I am in the same boat. My clutch was great up until the first ride this year. I took it to Daytona and almost lost the cluch pressure totally. The rear brake never worked and still doesn't.
I went to ride it the other week and had to bleed the clutch (o pressure). I only rode it the one day and 2 weeks later I have almost lost the clutch again. I hope I can get home from work today.

The bike goes in for service next weekend. The dealer said that it is common for air to get into the clutch and brakes. I still have not heard why.

BTW, I have replaced the slave with the Evolutionize and everything was great until this year.

mossback
04-29-2004, 12:29 PM
What fluid are you using? Did you flush top and bottom? The only time I had issue with my rear brake was when I did my rear sets and you relocate the master. I finally bled some at the banjo bolt and got the last bit of air out. Kind of messy but whatever. In additon my master is now vertically oriented as opposed to horizontal stock mounting. Works flawlessly.

The clutch is problematic. I am using DOT4 and used a bleeding kit with small hose and collector that works really well in letting you pump fluid through with out having to open close the valve.

Bremms
04-29-2004, 01:43 PM
The clutch has to be bled from the top first then the bottom then the top again.
The rear brake needs the same and must be removed, rasied high as possible.
use all new fluid from a sealed container a high quality dot 4. A bleeder bolt for the rear M/C banjo is a must.

Johnny in Oz
04-29-2004, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by Bremms
The clutch has to be bled from the top first then the bottom then the top again.


On behalf of the technically challenged I presume the"top" is the nipple next to the clutch lever. What is the "bottom"?

John

mossback
04-29-2004, 05:24 PM
The bottom nipple.:D

Merto
04-29-2004, 07:56 PM
Did anyone ever find the hex head screw in the clutch resevoir Ken (Evoluzione) mentined a while back and bleed from there?

Italibikefreak
04-29-2004, 08:00 PM
Does anybody think maybe the braided lines are defective? Just a thought because brembo are supposed to be the best when it comes to brakes and to have all these problems. Could it be bad braided lines letting air into the lines?:confused:

CCEMN1
04-30-2004, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by Felix Da Cat
Just back from my trip - 4,300km in 7days (a lot of partying inbetween slowed the riding down :D )

Well, I'm at the 6th or 7th clutch bleed (not sure, have to check my records), and now the rear brake too. Definitely heat related as per my previous observation.

Brembo is the biggest crap that I have had to deal with. When they work, they're great, but it has ZERO consistancy. I'm seriously considering changing it for something that works ALL the time - maybe even Suzuki parts :eek:

I'm at a loss as why Aprilia don't get this shit sorted out already. It has been an issue with previous models and not any better now. I agree! For what these bikes cost, they should really be as good as Clarkie believes they are! My suzuki with the six piston brakes will out stop my Mille any day, any where!! CC

CCEMN1
04-30-2004, 07:39 AM
And, NO! There is no "hex head bleeder" inside the reservoir of my '04 Mille!
CC

clarkie49
04-30-2004, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by CCEMN1
I agree! For what these bikes cost, they should really be as good as Clarkie believes they are! My suzuki with the six piston brakes will out stop my Mille any day, any where!! CC

if you are talking about the front brakes, you are full of it :D

if you are talking about the rear brake, stop being a pussy and dont use it :D

yes the rear brakes have always been an issue on the mille/R/Factory/Tuono, but if you cant get your front brakes to work then the problem may not be the brakes.......

i have never had a problem with the front brakes on any Aprilia, if you want to stop better get the Ferodo Sintergrop XR pads, best pads you will ever use.

the stock Brembo pads glaze pretty quickly and the brakes feel wooden, get some 'real' pads on the bike and you may even smile about your bike.....well maybe not :D

CCEMN1
04-30-2004, 08:14 AM
Clarkie, You remind me of these "Harley guys", with their blind devotion to their brand, in spite of the fact that they are pieces of shit!
Not that Aprilias are pieces of shit, but for Christ's sake, at least call a spade a spade!
We pay a lot of money for these bikes. Thereís no way to justify having this many different problems with a brand new, high end, ANYTHING!
Especially when Iíve owned over a dozen Jap bikes, beat the shit out of them regularly and NEVER have had a problem that wasnít my own fault!
Just like your defense of the Evo air box kit! They are junk! Mines for sale if you still think theyíre so great!
You loose a lot of credibility among those with open-minds and that rare ability to think, with coming off like you do!
CC

mike71
04-30-2004, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by clarkie49
if you are talking about the front brakes, you are full of it :D

if you are talking about the rear brake, stop being a pussy and dont use it :D


I can't ride but I gotta agree with this one, since I don't have a slipper clutch the engine braking locks the rear for me anyway. And I can still brake harder!


Originally posted by clarkie49

i have never had a problem with the front brakes on any Aprilia, if you want to stop better get the Ferodo Sintergrop XR pads, best pads you will ever use.

the stock Brembo pads glaze pretty quickly and the brakes feel wooden, get some 'real' pads on the bike and you may even smile about your bike.....well maybe not :D

No complaints about my pads, but my bro reccomended the EBC HH pads. I thought someone else on this forume recommended them too! :eek: :confused:

clarkie49
04-30-2004, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by CCEMN1
Clarkie, You remind me of these "Harley guys", with their blind devotion to their brand, in spite of the fact that they are pieces of shit!
Not that Aprilias are pieces of shit, but for Christ's sake, at least call a spade a spade!
We pay a lot of money for these bikes. Thereís no way to justify having this many different problems with a brand new, high end, ANYTHING!
Especially when Iíve owned over a dozen Jap bikes, beat the shit out of them regularly and NEVER have had a problem that wasnít my own fault!
Just like your defense of the Evo air box kit! They are junk! Mines for sale if you still think theyíre so great!
You loose a lot of credibility among those with open-minds and that rare ability to think, with coming off like you do!
CC

hang on a second!

are you bitching about the front or the rear brakes???

yes the rear brakes suck, i have always said that, with decent bleeding they are ok at best.

now if you really think that that the front brakes on your RSV-R suck then you have some major issues with either yourself or the bike.

99% of people rave about the front brakes, what makes yours so different?

and yes 99% of people complain about the rear brakes, and they are right.

as for the Evo thing, let me know in a month how much dirt is getting through to your throttle bodies with the milleman airbox, i have seen 2 different bikes with this kit and there has been grit on the tb's.

not slamming milleman's airbox at all, but if you want to be sure that your airbox is sealing properly then put the lid back on and the stock filter back in. it is afterall the only 'true' sealed airbox kit around at the moment

CCEMN1
04-30-2004, 09:11 AM
Yes, we're all talking about the rear brakes. And, the clutch, and so on, and so onÖ
The RSV-R front brakes are very good, but my TL-S with it's 6 piston Busa calipers, MS & EBC-HH pads I guarantee stops better than my stock set up '04 RSV-R!
If this fat, old 53 year-old, can brake later on turns on the TL than the Mille, I'm quite sure you can too!
Thanks for the tip though, I'll definitely try out some Ferodo pads, because with the stock pads on the TL there was also a substantial difference!
As far as Evo & Milleman air box kits, how come you were singing the praises of the Evo in earlier threads, but now seem to be trashing both! (The Milleman also is FAR superior to the Evo!!!)
You see, That's exactly what I'm talking about! If there's grit in the intake tract, the "box" certainly is NOT sealing, eliminating ANY claimed horsepower benefits of a larger box! Add to that, the fact that you are quite probably damaging your engine and that makes the argument for either, unconscionable!
I think my Mod is probably the most effective, for about 27 cents worth of materials! See Pic below. Iíll sell these ďkitsĒ for just three easy payments on your Visa, or Master card of $39.95!
All Iíve been saying from the beginning is, letís just cut the bullshit sales pitch, and get to the truth & facts!
Thanks, CC

Ronin69
04-30-2004, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by CCEMN1
Clarkie, You remind me of these "Harley guys", with their blind devotion to their brand, in spite of the fact that they are pieces of shit!
Not that Aprilias are pieces of shit, but for Christ's sake, at least call a spade a spade!
We pay a lot of money for these bikes. Thereís no way to justify having this many different problems with a brand new, high end, ANYTHING!
Especially when Iíve owned over a dozen Jap bikes, beat the shit out of them regularly and NEVER have had a problem that wasnít my own fault!
Just like your defense of the Evo air box kit! They are junk! Mines for sale if you still think theyíre so great!
You loose a lot of credibility among those with open-minds and that rare ability to think, with coming off like you do!
CC

Wait a minute you own a 97 tl and you never had problems with that? i knew two ppl who ownwd that bike and they both had nothing but problems.And i couldnt tell you how many second gears on gsxr 750's my friend has replaced at his shop! Im sick and tired of hearing how great and reliable jap bikes are ,certain models certain years it might be true. Sometimes an exceptional machine is produced like with any other motorized vehicle. But jap bikes have their problems too. just like everyone else. You bash harley but my friend has over 100000 miles on his bike and no problems. now granted im no big fan of harley either, but properly maintained and ridden you wont have that many problems. Even BMW and Mercedes have produced vehicles with issues. And the Milles have something most jap bikes don't, engine braking! I dont know how your tl was for it, but must big v-twins are great for it, really helps out when entering a turn.

Anyway dont think im bashing you im not!

CCEMN1
04-30-2004, 09:42 AM
I agree! BMW & Mercedes are right up there with Aprilia with being over priced and over rated! (Hold on. Let me put on my Nomex suit now!)
Yes, I know gamblers who are always going to the casinos and always winning too!!! You have to remember that having an open mind involves taking everything with a grain of salt at first! Everyone is only going to tell you their "winning stories", not the multitude of times they lost!
As far as the Harley story, I've owned two and I find that story VERY, VERY hard to believe!
I have owned 28 motorcycles over the course of the past 34 years. All I can tell you is that every Jap bike I've owned (The vast majority of that number!) have been the MOST reliable, dependable machines I've ever had in my garage!

clarkie49
04-30-2004, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by CCEMN1
Yes, we're all talking about the rear brakes. And, the clutch, and so on, and so onÖ
The RSV-R front brakes are very good, but my TL-S with it's 6 piston Busa calipers, MS & EBC-HH pads I guarantee stops better than my stock set up '04 RSV-R!
If this fat, old 53 year-old, can brake later on turns on the TL than the Mille, I'm quite sure you can too!
Thanks for the tip though, I'll definitely try out some Ferodo pads, because with the stock pads on the TL there was also a substantial difference!
As far as Evo & Milleman air box kits, how come you were singing the praises of the Evo in earlier threads, but now seem to be trashing both! (The Milleman also is FAR superior to the Evo!!!)
You see, That's exactly what I'm talking about! If there's grit in the intake tract, the "box" certainly is NOT sealing, eliminating ANY claimed horsepower benefits of a larger box! Add to that, the fact that you are quite probably damaging your engine and that makes the argument for either, unconscionable!
I think my Mod is probably the most effective, for about 27 cents worth of materials! See Pic below. Iíll sell these ďkitsĒ for just three easy payments on your Visa, or Master card of $39.95!
All Iíve been saying from the beginning is, letís just cut the bullshit sales pitch, and get to the truth & facts!
Thanks, CC

how much do you want to bet that your airbox kit will let grit through as well:rolleyes:

6 pistons caliper heat up and flex, then they distort the rotors, a bridged caliper is a hell of a lot better thana 6 piston caliper - do you actually know what a bridged caliper is?

so when you first claimed that the TL brakes were far superior to the Aprilia brakes you forgot to mention that they werent actually TL brakes, they were off a different bike with different pads with a different mastercylinder.........

if you want a 100% sealed airbox then put the lid back on :rolleyes:

what astounds me is that you have the gall to declare a product unworthy and a failure due to your problems, i have installed a hell of a lot more airbox kits than you have and i have not seen a problem.....like i said before, maybe the kit wasnt the problem

you dont think it is right that i defend a product i believe in, but it is ok for you to slam a product that you dont like.

as for harming my credibility, i dont give a shit. people either listen to what a ihave to say and believe it or they can take it with a grain of salt, i dont give a shit. people ask me for some advice, and i give it

but next time you come crying for my advice on something remember that i might just tell you what you 'want' to hear, becuase obviously my 'honest opinion' doesnt have any merrit with you.

CCEMN1
04-30-2004, 10:57 AM
No need to be so defensive! But, I wish YOU would keep your stories straight!
"as for the Evo thing, let me know in a month how much dirt is getting through to your throttle bodies with the milleman airbox, i have seen 2 different bikes with this kit and there has been grit on the tb's.
not slamming milleman's airbox at all, but if you want to be sure that your airbox is sealing properly then put the lid back on and the stock filter back in. it is afterall the only 'true' sealed airbox kit around at the moment" That's YOUR quote! I guess you ARE slamming Milleman?!?! Just by looking at both kits side by side, itís obvious that the Milleman is of higher quality and at least there was SOME thought put into itís manufacture! And, YES, they both still suck!
But! All I can tell you is after installing the Evo kit (I've been riding, racing & wrenching bikes for 35 years!!), I lifted the tank after 500 miles and the "air seal" was literally like a wet lasagna noodle!!! NO SEAL AT ALL! Now, whether this is as a result of a chemical reaction with the Vaseline, (Which Evo instructed me to use!) or from heat, it is just totally unacceptable! Yet, you STILL praise this manufacturer who obviously spent ZERO time on R & D! The flopping air filter is another stroke of brilliance on Evoís part! At least Milleman supplies an attachment for safety wiring the filter down!
Iím sorry Clarkie, but when I smell shit, I say it stinks, no matter whoís it is!!!
CC

DockingPilot
04-30-2004, 11:06 AM
Clarkie,
your serve..............


:rambo:

clarkie49
04-30-2004, 11:18 AM
story straight? your kidding arent ya!

you say the evo kit sucks, i dont

you say the Milleman kit seals well, i say have seen two that 'i' didnt install that didnt seal properly.

i say again if you want the airbox to seal 100% put the stock lid back on.

i am not slamming the kits just the fact that 'some' people havent got a clue when it comes to working on their bikes.

i am confident that i can install the Evo, Milleman, and even your airbox kit without it passing grit on. but maybe that is because i know what i am doing :rolleyes:

i wont sell or promote a product that i can't make work, kinda strange that i CAN can make the Evo kit work and you cant...

Ronin69
04-30-2004, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by CCEMN1
I agree! BMW & Mercedes are right up there with Aprilia with being over priced and over rated! (Hold on. Let me put on my Nomex suit now!)
Yes, I know gamblers who are always going to the casinos and always winning too!!! You have to remember that having an open mind involves taking everything with a grain of salt at first! Everyone is only going to tell you their "winning stories", not the multitude of times they lost!
As far as the Harley story, I've owned two and I find that story VERY, VERY hard to believe!
I have owned 28 motorcycles over the course of the past 34 years. All I can tell you is that every Jap bike I've owned (The vast majority of that number!) have been the MOST reliable, dependable machines I've ever had in my garage!

Well i dont care if you believe me or not its true. If you hate harley's so much why did you buy another one after already owning one? And i didnt say jap bikes weren't reliable. i said all manufactures have products with problems. I see you didn't mention in your post if you had any problems with your tl.? I dont think bmw's or mercedes are overated over priced yes not overated. I just meant that all great manufactures have their problems. Dont tell me you think jap cars are better Engineered then german cars? their cars are good, but not as good as bmw or mercedes. I have never driven in a smoother riding car then my friend's 740. At a buck twenty in felt like we were only going 50. just an awsome car altogther.

CCEMN1
04-30-2004, 12:55 PM
Clarkie, I think itís time to up the Prozac dose again! Either that, or youíre taking yourself far too serious as a result of ill-informed people worshiping you on this site too much!
YES! Story straight! Are you trashing Milleman & his kit or not??? Itís you that seems to have this dichotomy in your threads, not I!
You ďsayĒ youíre not trashing him, then go on to say his kit sucks and the Evo kit is the be all & end all! AND of course, YOU, Obie Wan, are the only one on the planet with the extreme mechanical expertise, knowledge & ability to install it!!!
Any individual with only moderate mechanical engineering skills could look at BOTH kits and see that they are both shit, but the Milleman is far superior to the Evo! If not, letís hear your learned opinion of how & why, instead of bullshit!
Give me a break! Iím not one of these ignorant kids like the one on the thread before, that think Harleys are good bikes! A mediocre trained chimpanzee could follow the directions and do an expert install on either!
Youíre ACTUALLY implying that installation of either of those kits is a difficult task??? Yes, I know, of course you have to use the ďmagic powderĒ that only you and other Aprilia Gurus have in your possession! Again, give me a break!
Sorry Clarkie, but youíve lost most, if not ALL of your credibility with me, from your ďPromoting a productĒ as you say, that is trash, and bad mouthing another which is virtually identical!!
Sorry if Iím getting under your skin, but Iím not one of these dim witted kids who ďfollows the leaderĒ! I do this really rare and uncommon thing, called THINK!
You really donít have to worry about it, or me though, because there are plenty of people out there who will go along with the program! Just look at Harley sales!!!
CC, The Ball Breaker!

DockingPilot
04-30-2004, 01:09 PM
CC Retorts

Clarkie, GO...................................

Fun ha ?

Kiwi_M5
04-30-2004, 03:24 PM
CC... you should be a politician the way you can twist Clarkies words... but you are way off base.



:bond: :gunner: :rambo:

Felix Da Cat
04-30-2004, 03:42 PM
CCemn1,

I agree with you about the rear brakes and clutch, and that the consumer should have a better product, BUT, and a big one, the TLs had/have major problems. The Tls are known for grenading motors.

Before you accuse me of being anti-Suz, I own a Busa. The front brakes on Suz don't even come close to the Mille, hence the reason why I don't worry about the rear. The only time the rear is an issue is in the wet and on gravel, and on those occasssions I have made do with engine braking and front without a problem - yes my factory has been in the rain and on gravel ..!..

The split pad system on the Mille/Brembo is the best concept out there and works great. You will always have an aligned pad with pressure, where as with the 6 pot calipers, they are just for show and definetly do not stop better. Hydraulics, by their simplistic design, will follow the path of least resistance, meaning that if one piston out of the 3 is sticking, then the others pistons will work harder, meaning that a pad could become misaligned.

Airbox: My Busa also has grit in the throttle bodies. I'm using a BMC filter on her. It will happen on the Mille too, based on the fact that the motor is sucking in air and you have air pressure from the speed you're travelling. The grit you see is a combination of thousands of small dust particles that get past the filter. The only way to stop this is by strangling the motor from air with a 100% effecient filter, but then what would be the point??

My Busa still managed 94,000km and only now started to smoke, slthough I can't tell you if it's rings or scored cylinder walls until I tear her down. Trust me when I tell you that we ride fast down south. If the Mille gets to that mileage, I won't give a shit about grit on the throttle bodies.

Your points have merit, but there is no need to bash Clarkie. We are all in the same boat and rather than get on each other's tits, let's work on solutions on the major issues. Clutch and rear brake are Brembo's resposibility - why do they work well on the Ducs and not on the Mille???

Clarkie does put in more on this board, than he gets out. How many others out there are like him?

Respect,
Felix

mossback
04-30-2004, 03:55 PM
Well spoken Felix, thank you.

There are issue with this bike as with ANY bike but that hardly makes it a POS. Of the hundreds of sub-manufacturers building parts for every single Bike or Auto maker, we would have thought that Brembo with it's reputation would not be our source of aggrivation but it is. It is not Aprilias fault they did pick the best brakes for production bikes out there but somewhere and we don't know yet where there lies a problem. That said this problem doesn't effect us all just some so maybe a certain production run is bad. It will all get figured out sooner or later sooner if we work together.

Clarkie you are doing fine work around here I for one appreciate what you say. I may not agree with you on everything but that is what makes this forum interesting. We can debate each other with out getting nasty or angry there is not point to it.

CC You are new to this forum but have been a heavy contributor and that is cool, but today you come across really angry dude.

Ronin69
04-30-2004, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by CCEMN1
Clarkie, I think itís time to up the Prozac dose again! Either that, or youíre taking yourself far too serious as a result of ill-informed people worshiping you on this site too much!
YES! Story straight! Are you trashing Milleman & his kit or not??? Itís you that seems to have this dichotomy in your threads, not I!
You ďsayĒ youíre not trashing him, then go on to say his kit sucks and the Evo kit is the be all & end all! AND of course, YOU, Obie Wan, are the only one on the planet with the extreme mechanical expertise, knowledge & ability to install it!!!
Any individual with only moderate mechanical engineering skills could look at BOTH kits and see that they are both shit, but the Milleman is far superior to the Evo! If not, letís hear your learned opinion of how & why, instead of bullshit!
Give me a break! Iím not one of these ignorant kids like the one on the thread before, that think Harleys are good bikes! A mediocre trained chimpanzee could follow the directions and do an expert install on either!
Youíre ACTUALLY implying that installation of either of those kits is a difficult task??? Yes, I know, of course you have to use the ďmagic powderĒ that only you and other Aprilia Gurus have in your possession! Again, give me a break!
Sorry Clarkie, but youíve lost most, if not ALL of your credibility with me, from your ďPromoting a productĒ as you say, that is trash, and bad mouthing another which is virtually identical!!
Sorry if Iím getting under your skin, but Iím not one of these dim witted kids who ďfollows the leaderĒ! I do this really rare and uncommon thing, called THINK!
You really donít have to worry about it, or me though, because there are plenty of people out there who will go along with the program! Just look at Harley sales!!!
CC, The Ball Breaker!


Iím not one of these ignorant kids like the one on the thread before, that think Harleys are good bikes.

I know your not talking about me?
I tried to keep this nice. This is why i hate posting on forums. you reply to a post with out any animosity and some jerkoff blows you up! Look here old man im 32 years old and have been riding bikes since i was 7 years old. I have a BA in sociology and a BA in anthropology. So watch who your calling ignorant. All that aside stop talking shit over the internet like some little punk ass bitch.

CCEMN1
04-30-2004, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Ronin69
Iím not one of these ignorant kids like the one on the thread before, that think Harleys are good bikes.

I know your not talking about me?
I tried to keep this nice. This is why i hate posting on forums. you reply to a post with out any animosity and some jerkoff blows you up! Look here old man im 32 years old and have been riding bikes since i was 7 years old. I have a BA in sociology and a BA in anthropology. So watch who your calling ignorant. All that aside stop talking shit over the internet like some little punk ass bitch.

I find your thread absolutely and thoroughly Ironic!!!
As anyone with a mind would!
BUT! There again, is the difference between education and intellect!!!
CC
PS. No, I'M not angry at all! It's just that I'm also NOT politically correct! When I believe something, I'm not afraid to open my mouth and express my feelings!
Much like Ronin69, only HEíS obviously angry!!!
CC

CCEMN1
04-30-2004, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by DockingPilot
CC Retorts

Clarkie, GO...................................

Fun ha ?

Pilot, I'm glad at least YOU "get it!"

clarkie49
04-30-2004, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by CCEMN1

Youíre ACTUALLY implying that installation of either of those kits is a difficult task???

well obviously for you it was :D

so now you are now calling two kits you purchased crap, does that mean that you have failed to install 'two' airbox kits correctly?

or does that just make you a consumer who made two wrong purchases? i know i can get both the Evo and Milleman kits to seal, does that make me an airbox 'guru'? no it simply means that i dont have my in the sand and i actually have some concept how who things work.

i have never said Milleman OR his kit suck, i said that i have seen them installed incorrectly.


"A mediocre trained chimpanzee could follow the directions and do an expert install on either!
Youíre ACTUALLY implying that installation of either of those kits is a difficult task??? "

well obviously there are a couple of chimanzee's out there that could teach you a thing or two, and while you maybe not be an ignorant child you certainly are IGNORANT.

do you think i really care that i have lost credibility with you?

i do know that some time in the near future you will be crying about some simple problem and will ask for my help or advice, just as you have done so over the last couple of weeks.

while i dont think you are a joke, i definitely find you amusing :D

no i am going back to the dyno and improve on the 145hp i am up to on my 2004 RSV-R that doesnt have clutch problems, brake problems, oil tank problems, airbox problems or any of the other things you spend you day crying about.

if you want i can try and find a chimp to teach you how to actually work on a motorcycle, but then again there probably wont be any chimps that find you as amusing as i do:D

CCEMN1
04-30-2004, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by clarkie49
well obviously for you it was :D

so now you are now calling two kits you purchased crap, does that mean that you have failed to install 'two' airbox kits correctly?

or does that just make you a consumer who made two wrong purchases? i know i can get both the Evo and Milleman kits to seal, does that make me an airbox 'guru'? no it simply means that i dont have my in the sand and i actually have some concept how who things work.

i have never said Milleman OR his kit suck, i said that i have seen them installed incorrectly.


"A mediocre trained chimpanzee could follow the directions and do an expert install on either!
Youíre ACTUALLY implying that installation of either of those kits is a difficult task??? "

well obviously there are a couple of chimanzee's out there that could teach you a thing or two, and while you maybe not be an ignorant child you certainly are IGNORANT.

do you think i really care that i have lost credibility with you?

i do know that some time in the near future you will be crying about some simple problem and will ask for my help or advice, just as you have done so over the last couple of weeks.

while i dont think you are a joke, i definitely find you amusing :D

no i am going back to the dyno and improve on the 145hp i am up to on my 2004 RSV-R that doesnt have clutch problems, brake problems, oil tank problems, airbox problems or any of the other things you spend you day crying about.

if you want i can try and find a chimp to teach you how to actually work on a motorcycle, but then again there probably wont be any chimps that find you as amusing as i do:D

Looks like I hit a nerve!!!
CC

CCEMN1
04-30-2004, 06:54 PM
OK, I give in!! How much do you want for some of that magic powder???
CC

AV8OR
04-30-2004, 06:55 PM
I wish I had the tools and more know how to fix everything on my bike.....

CC try a little harder and do some investigative work and you can fix all your probs!!!!

mossback
04-30-2004, 07:24 PM
Will this ever stop, take it to the biker bar. I want to read about problems and resolutions. I thought that was what this section is for.

:gunner:

CCEMN1
04-30-2004, 07:29 PM
AMEN!

CC

Ronin69
04-30-2004, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by CCEMN1
I find your thread absolutely and thoroughly Ironic!!!
As anyone with a mind would!
BUT! There again, is the difference between education and intellect!!!
CC
PS. No, I'M not angry at all! It's just that I'm also NOT politically correct! When I believe something, I'm not afraid to open my mouth and express my feelings!
Much like Ronin69, only HEíS obviously angry!!!
CC

lol yeah some loser who talks shit over the net makes me angry.
I didnt know you were a mind reader as well as the all knowledgeable Motorcycle expert. GET A LIFE

mike71
05-01-2004, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by CCEMN1
Just by looking at both kits side by side, itís obvious that the Milleman is of higher quality and at least there was SOME thought put into itís manufacture! And, YES, they both still suck!CC

so you're slamming them bioth, just one more than the other :p:

radduc
05-01-2004, 11:31 PM
YOu guy's are too funny

blowout
05-04-2004, 03:29 AM
While i'm only new to this forum I guess I can put in my 5cents worth... I've just done 900k's on the R only to find that the clutch is pissing fluid out the slave cylinder. Am I happy? While RSVR's only cost u guys in the US five fifth's of fuck all, over here they're close to $30k on the road. So while I accept that Brembo are the manufacturers, it's still up to Aprilia to get this sorted (and they should have done so years ago). this is simply NOT good enough (might be different if it was a one off thing - but obviously it's not). HOWEVER, I do forgive them (as long as my dealer can get it sorted by the weekend!).

As for rear brakes, I'm finding it really interesting that anyone would really want a rear brake that they could lock up with relative ease:confused: I mean who uses the rear brake? The only time I go anywhere near my rear brake is if I'm going into a corner a bit hot - and the last thing I want is the f!@#$%er locking up on me. I really like the rears on the Aprilias, in fact I though it was one of their better qualities - especially after coming off gixxers. As for the front brakes, they are without doubt the best I've experienced (and I have riden a few bikes over the years). Even on the Falco I found I was outbraking nearly everthing in my class (and I can't ride for shit remember). In fact last track day, I jumped on a mates GSXR600 '03, came screaming down the front straight, and well, u can guess the rest (did manage not to drop it though).
Anyway, Aplilia deserve a bashing for these problems, only so they can in turn bash Brembo (as Felix said "Clutch and rear brake are Brembo's resposibility - why do they work well on the Ducs and not on the Mille???" - good question hey), and if I have to wait anymore than a few days to get the bike back, well it's not going to be pretty :gunner: :bond: :rambo: :fangs: :mad:

Fox
05-04-2004, 05:06 AM
I think we tend to forget just how good the front brakes are on the Aprilia. I did a swap with a mates GSXR 1000 and almost ran into roadworks (you know, the guy on the road with the STOP sign) at the first opportunity - I just kept squeezing thinking 'Christ they have to work soon!'. Meantime he was behind me on my Mille and was doing a stoppie as he applied what he thought was normal brake pressure!

As for the back brake, it's true it's always been crap and yes it's also true that it really only needs to slow the back wheel but that really is not the point. It should work like it's supposed to.

The Haybusa I had before had no problems locking the back wheel but only if you wanted to. And this bike is almost half the price.

It's disapointing to see the problem still exists on the '04 as I would have pinpointed it for one of the things Aprilia would definitely fix with so much feedback from customers ..

msv
05-04-2004, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by blowout
I've just done 900k's on the R only to find that the clutch is pissing fluid out the slave cylinder. Am I happy? So while I accept that Brembo are the manufacturers, it's still up to Aprilia to get this sorted (and they should have done so years ago).


Anyway, Aplilia deserve a bashing for these problems, only so they can in turn bash Brembo (as Felix said "Clutch and rear brake are Brembo's resposibility - why do they work well on the Ducs and not on the Mille???" - good question hey

I think we also need to keep in mind that while the clutch master cylinder is a Brembo component, the slave cylinder is not, and it is likely that this is where the problems are. As for the rear brake, also hard to blame Brembo when it is pretty clear that the caliper has never been bled properly (i.e. with the bleed screw up) at the time the bikes are delivered.

DockingPilot
05-04-2004, 09:48 AM
Rollin Fast Motorsports in NJ (My dealer) now bleeds all of them before delivery.

blowout
05-05-2004, 05:58 AM
Originally posted by msv
I think we also need to keep in mind that while the clutch master cylinder is a Brembo component, the slave cylinder is not, and it is likely that this is where the problems are.
Ahh, my mistake, thanks for pointing that out MSV. I was under the impression that the slave was a Brembo item as well.
Does anyone know if it is a seal problem or is it a problem with the cylinder (ie. poorly machined etc). because if it's the cylinder, there will be little point in putting in a new seal kit. I'm wondering if I should get the local brake guy to machine a stainless sleeve and piston for it (should be able to use a more common seal then too). Anyone know what the real problem is?

Uli
05-05-2004, 07:32 AM
I have a slave cylinder (from last year production) mounted last Friday but not driven enough km yet to tell you if the Problem is solved. Iíll keep you informed when driven more the 800km after the change.
(Before I had to bleed all 400km)

Ciao
Uli

Norcal Factory
05-05-2004, 10:53 AM
I have had the dealer replace the clutch MC and slave Cyl. After 600 miles or so the clutch needs bleeding again. Third time for this problem.

The rear brake only worked great for a couple of weeks after I took it off and reverse bled it. I could get braking action to make a difference wihtou taking my foot off the foot peg. If I wanted to, I could lock up the rear brake - but only if I intended to.

I required bleeding every few weeks so....

The delaer replaced and adjusted the caliper. On the way home the rear brake locked up ruining the rotor, caliper and speed sensor.

Those were replaced and the rear brake has worked where if it take my foot off the peg and stand on it - it slows the bike dowm. But not early as good as when I bled it. The Rear brake MC is on order. The dealer has seen this problem on DUcati's as well and thinks it could be related to the location of the MC relative to the headers and there could be boiling from the heat resulting in air in the system.

CCEMN1
05-05-2004, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by mike71
so you're slamming them bioth, just one more than the other :p:


The Milleman air box kit is far superior to the Evo, if for no other reason than it provides a means of holding down the front of the air filter, and a better quality rubber gasket that doesnít turn to a rumpled up mess in 300 miles, not sealing at all!
Like Clarkie says, itís still probably not as air tight as the stock lid, but since Aprilia didnít provide adequate air box volume, these are our only options right now.
The reason I took exception to Clarkies defense of the Evo, and his flaming the guy posting the thread, complaining about it was because Clarkie, ďmaster mechanicĒ that he is, didnít even realize that the top of the stock box is what holds down the front of the air filter! There are 5 little fingers that engage the corresponding taps on the filter that hold it in place. Clarkie was talking about it being a design flaw from Aprilia, and not Evoís fault! I realized this was bullshit, immediately after installing my OWN Evo! AND, Iím no master mechanic and only have 2 months experience with Aprilias!
Besides, if thereís a product on the market that doesnít perform as advertised, I want to know about it! Especially if it can potentially damage my bike, or engine! Thatís what this forum is for, or so I thought! For Clarkie to flame this guy for pointing out obvious (Well, maybe not to Clarkie!) design flaws and problems, I find unconscionable and counter productive to what this forum is supposed to be about!
Iíve attached a photo of my Milleman kit with Bremmerís clip, holding down the front of the filter. I feel this set up is the best, if youíre considering an air box Mod!
But, then again, Iím no master mechanic!
CC

CCEMN1
05-05-2004, 03:01 PM
PS. My Evo kit's for sale! Anyone interested? CC

mossback
05-05-2004, 03:17 PM
Welcome back.

How was the trip? Did you take the RSVR? PM me.

CCEMN1
05-05-2004, 03:52 PM
Thanks! Rained the whole way up! Have the Mille up here & looking forward to some quality riding, sans old farts, drunks and straight lines!
Just installed my Milleman air box kit, passport 8500 and heads up display! I'm Ready!!!
CC

mossback
05-05-2004, 04:02 PM
You are up North right? How's the bike running? You notice a big improvement with the airbox mod?

CCEMN1
05-05-2004, 04:12 PM
I haven't had the bike out yet in NJ. It's been either raining, or freezing since I arrived, and I've only been here 3 days!
I installed the Evo kit, the Ti cans and map 2, before ever riding the bike stock, so I can't really even give you an assessment on that.
Ran fine and real strong (Though STILL not as strong as my TL!!) in Fl, but I did have the occasional drop dead engine at low RPM, and that's with map 2 also!
I've come to the conclusion that if you want solid reliability, whether it be a car, or bike, or pretty near ANYTHING, go with a Jap product!
If you're willing to give up some of that reliability for some high-end performance and exclusivity, there are the Italian exotics!
Damn shame we can't have it both ways!
CC

mossback
05-05-2004, 04:33 PM
I think map 3 fixes it. I will be posting up soon. have a good ride, rubber side down and all that. Did you ride up?

CCEMN1
05-05-2004, 04:40 PM
Nope!

mossback
05-05-2004, 04:56 PM
lazy bastard or you must pack a lot of hair care products.

:D

wolly
06-14-2004, 04:21 PM
Hi,

There was a posting on a dutch forum that mentioned what should solve the clutch (air) problem. This was told to a dealer by Aprilia Netherlands.

(excuse me for my bad english)

There is a rubber dustcap around the piece from the master cilinder that gets pushed inside. (plunge ?) This dustcap is too tight and builds up air pressure inside. This air can get inside the master cilinder. The solution should be very simple: get a needle and make a small hole on the downside of the dustcap so when you pull the lever the compressed air can get out.

Someone over here in Holland did 800 km afterwards and didn't have the problem anymore.

I'm going to try this week.


Rob

Uli
06-15-2004, 01:44 AM
Hi Rob,

can you please give me the link to the Dutch forum.
Which dust-cap do you mean?

Regards
Uli

Uli
06-15-2004, 03:21 AM
Or - better - can you make a picture of it.

If you have a problem to put it in here, send it to me and I put it in.

hu.loehr@t-online.de

Thank you
Uli

Kiwi_M5
06-15-2004, 03:27 AM
I dont agree with that theory wolly. Reason is that when you bleed your brakes or clutch then tighten the nipple, you still have a small amount of fluid left in the nipple. When you put the dust cap on, the pressure from the cap forces the excess fluid/air back down the nipple and out the little pin holes and back up the thread. No way would the pressure from a dust cap break the seal of the nipple against the banjo bolt - the excess fluid/air will always take the easiest path, and that is back up the thread.

I just took a pic for you to see what I mean.

Evo clutch salve has fixed my problems aof frequent bleeds s well as made the clutch nice and light to pull. Highly recommend them.

Kiwi_M5
06-15-2004, 04:27 AM
Oops, forgot to say that the little circle shows tha part that seals against the banjo bolt.

locknload
06-15-2004, 06:27 AM
i think wolly is talking about the master cylinder push rod ie the one that the clutch lever actually pushes on and where it goes through the dust seal on the master cylinder

2004 Aprilia RSV 1000 R
Silver/Grey
Full Aprilia Racing Akrapovick Titanium Exhaust System
Stock Suspension Settings Sorted
Ohlins Steering Damper
42 Tooth Rear Sprocket
Pirelli Dragon SuperCorsas SC1 Front-SC2 Rear

Kiwi_M5
06-15-2004, 06:39 AM
Oh yeah - duh :o helps if I read these things properly :D thx Doug.

Actually, someone else posted here somewhere about that bit. He reckoned he "played' with it and his clutch problems went away, but it was more related to adjusting it out which allowed the lever to put more pressure on it (people thought he was referring to the lever adjustment, but he clarified).

It will be one of those handy little snipits that is near impossible to find .. but shit I'm bored so I'll try and find.

Uli
06-15-2004, 06:50 AM
I changed the slave cylinder agains one of an older production date. Finally nothing changed.

The slave cylinder is not the reason for our problems.

Uli
06-15-2004, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by wolly
There is a rubber dustcap around the piece from the master cilinder that gets pushed inside. (plunge ?) This dustcap is too tight and builds up air pressure inside. This air can get inside the master cilinder. The solution should be very simple: get a needle and make a small hole on the downside of the dustcap so when you pull the lever the compressed air can get out.
Rob

There is no fluid coming out - how can air go in there?

Ciao
Uli

blowout
06-15-2004, 07:44 AM
Originally posted by wolly
There is a rubber dustcap around the piece from the master cilinder that gets pushed inside. (plunge ?) This dustcap is too tight and builds up air pressure inside. This air can get inside the master cilinder. The solution should be very simple: get a needle and make a small hole on the downside of the dustcap so when you pull the lever the compressed air can get out.
Rob
I wish it were that simple. I can assure you that the pressure coming form the other side is far greater than any pressure built up on the dust cover side. If air can get in past the piston seal, fluid will get out, i.e. u should have fluid behind the dust cover too, because while pressure may build up behind the dust cover, it still has to get past the piston seal to enter the hydrulic system resulting in air in the system. So I don't know what it is. I've bled the system and changed to DOT4 fluid - which helped, but not solved. I do have the weaping slave cylinder problem (aghhh!), but I'm guessing that's not going to fix the air problem altogether. So come on Aprilia, what's the go??? We're all feckin tired of having to bleed clutches ever few 100 k's!!! And I've been waiting 5 weeks for a single slave cylinder 'kit' - which I imagine is just a single o-ring seal!!! What's the go???:mad:

wolly
06-15-2004, 10:27 AM
The thread was posted on www.rsvmille.nl


It isn't my idea. I'm just repeating it. I talked to my own dealer today and he didn't hear from it today, but he didn't know of any 04 bike with a clutch problem either ?!. He is gonna give Aprilia a phone call.

The seal is designed to keep the fluid inside so the seal lips will be pointed to the inside. That way the fluid pressure pushes the seal against the hole and make a proper sealing.
Maybe when you fully pull in the clutch lever and then release it very quickly there is a moment where there is air pressure on the outside of the seal and because you release the lever very quickly there is no fluid pressure on the inside. I can imagine a little air could go past the seal at that moment. Remember it doesn't have to be a large amount. Because it is repeated very often it can become a problem.

On my bike, it takes about 800 km to get enough air in the master cilinder to affect the shifting.

So we need someone to count how often the clutch is used in 800 km :banana:

blowout
06-16-2004, 03:00 AM
fair enough, and I'm up for anything at the moment. So I'm now going to make a nice neat little cut in my dust boot. Will let u know how it goes.

Uli
06-16-2004, 05:04 AM
I had a look to this dust cap and Iíve seen a little bit of fluid inside so prhaps itís really the right way.

Iíll try it also.

Regards
Uli