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View Full Version : I got a new toy!



Allen Noland
08-17-2009, 11:08 PM
And it does all kinds of cool stuff.

ckruzel
08-17-2009, 11:21 PM
looks expensive

Mooseknuckles
08-17-2009, 11:37 PM
I've been eyeballing that one myself. The fact that you can test your emmisions while riding the bike is sweet. I'm going to need to have my own. can you give a report after a few uses, the stated accuracy on the website of + or - 5% scares me a little.

cal550b
08-18-2009, 02:44 AM
i got a new toy too in king karl black and encrusted in diamonds for extra feel :rolleyes:

WATTY
08-18-2009, 02:56 AM
i got a new toy too in king karl black and encrusted in diamonds for extra feel :rolleyes:

WHERE CAN I GET ONE !!!!:plus:

ozz
08-18-2009, 03:45 AM
WHERE CAN I GET ONE !!!!:plus:

dont buy one, use cal550's when he's done, a quick wipe and your away.

cal550b
08-18-2009, 03:57 AM
dont buy one, use cal550's when he's done, a quick wipe and your away.

ya funny fookers you lot lol

Allen Noland
08-18-2009, 06:50 AM
I've been eyeballing that one myself. The fact that you can test your emmisions while riding the bike is sweet. I'm going to need to have my own. can you give a report after a few uses, the stated accuracy on the website of + or - 5% scares me a little.

This one is better than our bench model for setup and trouble shooting. The data logging is a great feature. Throw it in the tank bag, go for a rip, run up to 8 samples and then go back and plug it into the printer. Now I can see those 5800 rpm hiccups as well as feel them.

The accuracy is very good, it's +- 5% of the actual reading. At a 2-4% CO level, the accuracy is +- 0.1 to 0.2% (.001-.002).

Kuneff
08-18-2009, 07:27 AM
Looks purdy Allen, can if figure out why mine is still leaking oil? :D

Allen Noland
08-18-2009, 07:58 AM
Looks purdy Allen, can if figure out why mine is still leaking oil? :D

Probably for the same reason your tires don't hold air anymore.

Allen Noland
08-18-2009, 07:59 AM
i got a new toy too in king karl black and encrusted in diamonds for extra feel :rolleyes:

Those diamonds look ouchy!

gwr
08-18-2009, 08:00 AM
I had something very similar, but have just brought the new WB2 from dyno jet , With data logger, Also very portable and easy to swap from bike to bike - brand to brand .
Like you found with your toy, It actually works very very well , live testing on the road showed up somethings that i did not pick up on the dyno ( using the dyno's lambda sensor) seems very fast reacting and very accurate.www.dynojet.com

Mooseknuckles
08-18-2009, 08:32 AM
GWR,

The tool allen just bought is $2000+ and the WB2 starts around $300. Im looking for the right tool to help tune my own bike. Why did you choose the WB2 over somthing like Allens?

Allen,

Thanks, that makes more sence. So you should be able to get a pretty flat 3% CO level in a couple runs with your new toy. Sounds like a good investment to me. Maybe you could post a couple before/after graphs of the bikes your tunning. I'm curious as to how far off some of the bike you get in your shop are, or, what kind of difference is made with bolt ons like foam filters and exhausts.

Moose

cal550b
08-18-2009, 08:44 AM
I had something very similar, but have just brought the new WB2 from dyno jet , With data logger, Also very portable and easy to swap from bike to bike - brand to brand .
Like you found with your toy, It actually works very very well , live testing on the road showed up somethings that i did not pick up on the dyno ( using the dyno's lambda sensor) seems very fast reacting and very accurate.www.dynojet.com

glen that sounds like some vibrator :cigar:

gwr
08-18-2009, 10:09 AM
because there is only so much you can do with such a tool... still comes down to the person operating it, I have something very similar to the co series 2500 and now use the wb2, your right, there is a huge difference in price... the results are the same with both tools... ease of of use is important , and i dont much believe in tail pipe sample tubes, I see better more accurate results with the sensor mounted in the header pipe.... to each his own... I have and use both... But still think best reults come from the right person operating a good tool, rather than a right tool operating an expensive gadget .

Mooseknuckles
08-18-2009, 10:56 AM
So did you mount a sensor in each header pipe? What A/F ratio do you suggest for best performance?

nicogc
08-18-2009, 11:22 AM
so either of this tools could be used instead of a Dyno? can i change/modify a map using this tool and the original ECU? not going to PC3 or Tuneboy.

Mooseknuckles
08-18-2009, 11:48 AM
No you cant change the map with either. They're just for testing the fuel mixture of the map you have loaded. You would need Tuneboy, PC3, or Axione (and its new replacment, not sure what it's called)

Moose

gwr
08-18-2009, 12:03 PM
IMO fuel changes without ignition changes and vise versa are a waste of time , One compliments the other , Yes with a pc5, tuneboy software you can remap and road test using one of the toys we are talking about . instead of a dyno.... all well and good at the moment, the sun is out and its warm .... But in the middle of the winter( when I have most time to develop) its a whole different story .... then the dyno is handy .
Yes a sensor in each header is best ,As the best results are with slightly different maps for the front and rear cylinder I cant say what the ideal air fuel ratio would be , As it varies sooo much from throttle position /rpm etc can be as low as 10 and as high as 16 under given circumstances

Allen Noland
08-18-2009, 08:19 PM
Like gwr said, a less expensive tool in the right hands is much better than a more expensive tool in the wrong hands. The end result always comes from the person using it.

I looked at a bunch of different analyzers before deciding on this one. There were more expensive multi-gas analyzers and some less expensive systems too, but this one did almost everything I wanted. The only change I have done is to make two adapters. One screws into the fitting on the newer ('08 and up) XV bikes where the emissions junk is removed, so the cylinders can be tested individually. The stock exhaust on these bikes is basically a 2 into 1 system with dual tips, so readings in the tail-pipe are really an average of both cylinders. The other adapter fits the headpipes on the liter bikes. I found that the readings there were nearly identical to the readings with the sample probe down the muffler. That may be because this unit has a probe that can extend 28" down the exhaust. Some of the other units I looked at only had a 12" probe, so I don't know of that would make a difference or not.

:plus:On the dyno for winter work. The data logging on the road is great right now but in December it could be a little squirrely. We've been looking at a couple different models, and talking seriously about getting one...but right now there are so many bikes in the shop that I don't know where we are going to put it. Maybe a dyno-shed or something is in order.

gwr
08-18-2009, 10:06 PM
yes.... no shortage of work either then ???
I hope some of them are finished waiting to be picked up???

Mooseknuckles
08-18-2009, 10:11 PM
Looks like you need a chubby Canadian to sweep the shop floor, and, make beer and coffee runs. I'm looking for work at the moment.... ;)

Looks like you've got yourself a nice busy shop at the moment.

nicogc
08-18-2009, 10:36 PM
here it almost doesn't rain, temp is never lower than 14oC, so no problem with outdoor testing all year long. the problem here is getting the tools and the know how. i have to teach myself with the help of this forums and you guys.
i have the Axone but that one can't be used to modify maps, right? just to load the ones i get from factory. i would like to be able to use the OEM ECU and be able to modify maps. can it be done?

if anyone is interested here are a couple of links on how to build your own Dyno:
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=808360
http://www.sportdevices.com/index.html

:happy:

gwr
08-18-2009, 11:11 PM
yes using the shall we say "fragile" tuneboy software or the dynojet PC5, all you need is time, money, a little patients and a rather good grasp on "how things work"
But mostly time.

Allen Noland
08-19-2009, 06:36 AM
yes.... no shortage of work either then ???
I hope some of them are finished waiting to be picked up???

Some are race bikes, some are done, others need work. There are more in the back that the picture doesn't show, and three motors on the work bench. It seems like every time I get one finished, another one shows up. Staying really busy is good for me. If I have too much free time, I get bored and get into some kind of mischief.


Looks like you need a chubby Canadian to sweep the shop floor, and, make beer and coffee runs.

I'm not so sure about chubby, but you can send the Canadian on your avatar! I don't care if she can make coffee, and I'll even let her stay at my house!

RXV_Poor
08-19-2009, 10:18 AM
Like gwr said, a less expensive tool in the right hands is much better than a more expensive tool in the wrong hands. The end result always comes from the person using it.

I looked at a bunch of different analyzers before deciding on this one. There were more expensive multi-gas analyzers and some less expensive systems too, but this one did almost everything I wanted. The only change I have done is to make two adapters. One screws into the fitting on the newer ('08 and up) XV bikes where the emissions junk is removed, so the cylinders can be tested individually. The stock exhaust on these bikes is basically a 2 into 1 system with dual tips, so readings in the tail-pipe are really an average of both cylinders. The other adapter fits the headpipes on the liter bikes. I found that the readings there were nearly identical to the readings with the sample probe down the muffler. That may be because this unit has a probe that can extend 28" down the exhaust. Some of the other units I looked at only had a 12" probe, so I don't know of that would make a difference or not.

:plus:On the dyno for winter work. The data logging on the road is great right now but in December it could be a little squirrely. We've been looking at a couple different models, and talking seriously about getting one...but right now there are so many bikes in the shop that I don't know where we are going to put it. Maybe a dyno-shed or something is in order.

My dream garage. :worship:

Allen Noland
08-20-2009, 07:25 PM
So you should be able to get a pretty flat 3% CO level in a couple runs with your new toy. Sounds like a good investment to me. Maybe you could post a couple before/after graphs of the bikes your tunning. I'm curious as to how far off some of the bike you get in your shop are, or, what kind of difference is made with bolt ons like foam filters and exhausts.

Most of the earlier maps tend to be lean, but there are several that are intensionally rich. Here's one of those from today. 2008 SXV 450, stock exhaust and airbox. The first reading is after derestriction and running map 14032 with no corrections. The second reading is after a little tweaking of the CO and injection time. The low idle readings were done at 1900 rpms, the high at 3500. I rode it before and after adjustment, and the throttle response, low and mid range power were definately better after adjustment. This was a brand new bike that I was getting ready for a customer, so I didn't run it to the rev limiter.

Mooseknuckles
08-31-2009, 03:16 PM
Any updates on the new tool Allen? I'm courious if I could use it to help program a duel map for a hillclimb. One for the start and the other for halfway up. Curious about altitude related performance changes.

Allen Noland
09-01-2009, 10:22 PM
Any updates on the new tool Allen? I'm courious if I could use it to help program a duel map for a hillclimb. One for the start and the other for halfway up. Curious about altitude related performance changes.

The new tool has been working great.

How big is the hill? The ECU already reads the barometric pressure in the airbox and adjusts accordingly. I wouldn't think that you would need a high/low altitude map unless you are planning to make a run up Everest or K2.

Mooseknuckles
09-01-2009, 10:30 PM
Pikes peak.... Every man has life goals, and that climb is one of mine. Want to do it next year if all things go to plan. Tarmac/Dirt maps will do then. Just figured your funky tool would be a good to see if the mixture stays good all the way up. Not going to challange Davey, that's for sure, but, still want to be all I can be.

I also have a goofy idea about an electric/hydraulic preload adjuster, (also run by the map switch) for the Tarmac/Dirt transition. Not sure if it's going to do any good considering my lack of skill, but, I like goofy projects. The winter is long and cold here.

Allen Noland
09-01-2009, 10:51 PM
Not going to challange Davey, that's for sure, but, still want to be all I can be.

I also have a goofy idea about an electric/hydraulic preload adjuster, (also run by the map switch) for the Tarmac/Dirt transition. Not sure if it's going to do any good considering my lack of skill, but, I like goofy projects. The winter is long and cold here.

If that doesn't work out for you, there's always the chili cook-off on the friday before the race! We might even be able to use the gas analyzer for that too.