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cr500af
08-13-2009, 02:38 AM
ok so my buddys stator got chewed but i caught it in time where we could just change it. we drain the oil when we first pulled the cover. ordered the parts but in the mean time we put the cover back on. now the parts came in yesterday and we pulled the cover (cause the oil was drained) and it seems like a liter of oil poured out. kinda weird and a big mess but hey whatever. anyway got the parts changed and changed the filter and added 1300cc's. she fired up and no issues. working great but we couldnt get oil to show in the sight tube. we added 25cc's at a time and rechecked. nothing we are now at 1400cc's and stopped. still nothing in the sight guage. now befoer anyone asked the bike is running and HOT. really weird. what im thinking is that there actually is alot more oil in these motors than we think. anyone got any ideas?

irie
08-13-2009, 03:38 AM
Sounds like oil isn't being picked up and returned to the oil tank.

Link. (http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165588)

Mooseknuckles
08-13-2009, 04:26 AM
the sight tube is unreliable! I had several months where there was no oil in my sight tube with the correct amount of oil in the system. Then it came back out of the blue. If you want to try to test this theory yourself get a proper catch can an add oil. I think you find if you add more than suggested it will end up in the can (or airbox if you try it with the stock setup)

Check out the oil tank sight tube mod thread on this forum if your looking for somthing more reliable. I'm waiting on Cal to make up a bunch so I can buy a couple for myself.

Hunterdobe
08-13-2009, 07:44 AM
Measure out your grea oil, maybe a bad seal?

kimzx1000r
08-13-2009, 08:05 AM
I would bet if you asked Amauri or Cal they would tell you that if the stator got damaged to split it, clean it, and reassemble it. Small amounts of copper get into the tiny oil passages and presto damage to the engine! Irie is probably on the money with his explanation.

cal550b
08-13-2009, 09:24 AM
I would bet if you asked Amauri or Cal they would tell you that if the stator got damaged to split it, clean it, and reassemble it. Small amounts of copper get into the tiny oil passages and presto damage to the engine! Irie is probably on the money with his explanation.

yeh kim is right on this ,as irie says it will be blocked,the dealers dont realise that when the stator is busted the oil pickup is blocked and the only way to fix this is to split the motor do not run this bike you may have already damaged the shells ,i have done so many of the dealer busted engines due to this,good luck.

amauri
08-13-2009, 10:01 AM
Not saying this is the case, but just FYI.

According to the phone conversation I had with cr450af several weeks ago, the stator did not break up into tiny bits.

I told him if there were no broken copper pieces missing from the stator, there is a good chance that it could be taken care of without a case split.

I have a motor on the bench right now that suffered the flywheel-bolts-grinding-stator fate, it ran while grinding away for several miles before it stopped.

The oil pump screen was completely clogged with copper bits when I took it all apart. The crank is now shot.

cr500af
08-13-2009, 10:30 AM
correcr there were no pieces missing just a little smearing of the copper and i assume the screws were grounding out the stator

irie
08-13-2009, 12:43 PM
There doesn't have to be any copper ground off the stator poles.

If the resin/insulation/whatever (?) coating on the stator poles alone is chipped off that's quite enough to clog the oil pickup.

cr500af
08-13-2009, 05:46 PM
If the oil pickup was clogged would the oil light come on?

ETN550
08-13-2009, 06:23 PM
No. the clogged pickup is keeping the oil from gettng to the tank. The oil light will come on if you have no oil going to the supply pump from the tank to make pressure.

Excess oil in the crankcase can cause all sorts of problems as it is occupying space used for breathing. High pulsating pressures can develop and blow seals. The mess from the stator is being blocked from getting back to the tank and filter so it is dirty and being sloshed around.

The fact that your tank is not getting oil and it is in the sump almost guarantees the pickup is plugged. You will have to split it to get to it to clean it. Since it has been run I would check the bearing shells and clean all the oil passages. It is what it is, don't run it and make it worse.

cr500af
08-13-2009, 07:07 PM
Boy he ain't gonna like this.

cr500af
08-13-2009, 09:27 PM
Ok well added oil until it showed up in the sight tube. 1600cc's then it sat at above max and would go up and down a quarter of an inch slowly. So I drained about 200cc's out. Now it is about midway and still goes up and down in the tube. As soon as you start it stays about the same. Even with the bike off. Mine will suck the oil out then slowly come back up.

cr500af
08-13-2009, 09:57 PM
ok so drain a little more and here is where we are. now it is just above the minmark and as soon as you start it it sucks it all out then comes back like it's supposed to. so i took it for a rip. at a stop i quickly jummped off to check the level. none in the tube but wait a sec and it comes back. so when i got home i let it idle and it sit nicley just above the min mark. give the throttle a good wack and oil sucks outta the tube and returns slowly. if i had to guess im somewhere in the range of 1350cc's

irie
08-14-2009, 02:57 AM
quick question amauri or irie
my sxv is a 2008, do i need to check the bolts on its stator or was that fixed at the factory?

Personally I check everything ...

proslider
08-14-2009, 09:41 AM
ok so drain a little more and here is where we are. now it is just above the minmark and as soon as you start it it sucks it all out then comes back like it's supposed to. so i took it for a rip. at a stop i quickly jummped off to check the level. none in the tube but wait a sec and it comes back. so when i got home i let it idle and it sit nicley just above the min mark. give the throttle a good wack and oil sucks outta the tube and returns slowly. if i had to guess im somewhere in the range of 1350cc's

I have followed your comments and can relate. Perhaps I tend to be too meticulous as well. I was trying for midway between max and min and had similar experiences. I put oil in and it would be too high draw oil out and it would be too low. I had times when I was out riding and checked the oil and it didn't show up on the sight tube. Another time the level was above the top of the sight tube. I finally settled for measuring out 1250cc and putting that in when I change oil (I always change filter). It now is consistently around the mid point where I wanted it.

cr500af
08-14-2009, 09:58 AM
Remember I have one and this is my buddys that lives in my garage. Mine I chafe the oil and filter and drain oil from the tank and sump and add 1300 and it's perfect. 1/4 above the min mark hot. But on mine it does not suck the oil outta the tube if you rip on it. Same bikes 2 different personalitys. I just rode it to work and all systems seem to be working properly. As soon as I parked it whilevstill running no oil in tube and came back and held steady. Took about 3 secs.

proslider
08-14-2009, 12:18 PM
If I have any doubts I just check the exterior for oil leaks and then pull the seat and remove the AF1 airfilter to look in the airbox for oil. None found thus far. Lately, since I went to measured oil input as mentioned above the oil level has consistently been at the mid point with 2 minute warmup and idling.

Highway9Rider
08-14-2009, 04:06 PM
1300 ccs is too much. start at 1150 and add till sight tube shows about half way.

you drop in 1300 and your overflow tube will be full after a ride...I believe via the airbox

this means you drop in 1150 then run the bike till warmed up....around the neighborhood for ten minutes or so...hell maybe down the road for 15 total minutes....then come back and check sight tube....

cr500af
08-14-2009, 04:51 PM
1300 is not too much. That's what mine takes. Not a drop in the airbox nor the tube. Oil level just above min. But that is my bike. We are talking about my buddys that is at about 1400 after a complete drain after sitting for a month. Now just above min and running great. I beat it up today and no oil in the drain tube.

john boy
08-14-2009, 05:41 PM
quick question amauri or irie
my sxv is a 2008, do i need to check the bolts on its stator or was that fixed at the factory?when i pdi even new sxv,s i always drop the cover off & re do the flywheel bolts for about a hrs work it not worth the risk.my boss gets on at me for taking to long doing the pdi,s but i have never had 1 come back.08 bikes was done from factory i am told but i have found that not to be the case on a few 08 bikes i have done! i also changed an oil tank before as the site tube was blocked at the top so oil cannot find its own level, i drained the tank & the oil level was still at top of sight tube as it was vacumed in there!

Falken Hawke
08-15-2009, 02:17 AM
I was going to ask if both bikes were showing the same behavior but since you said that one is different, I'd consider looking at the pickup and oil scavenge pump.

The reason being that dry sump systems are designed with filling the tank as priority. This ensures that there is always oil supplied to the oil pressure pump. The tank oil level dropping in relation to the R.P.M.'s seems to indicate that the scavenge pump isn't clearing the crankcase as well as yours.

Hard to say if it is an issue. Concerns are if the pressure pump is constantly supplied in all operating ranges and conditions, oil isn't being blown out and the crankcase pressure isn't high.