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View Full Version : Expansion chamber for sale



HONDARACER
11-28-2008, 06:47 PM
I purchased a few of these from Thailand and to help with shipping costs I am looking to sell a couple. If interested please PM me for pricing.

http://www3.telus.net/smokeskull/p12.jpg


http://www3.telus.net/smokeskull/p13.jpg

HONDARACER
11-29-2008, 03:32 PM
1 left.

HONDARACER
11-29-2008, 06:05 PM
Heres a link to a short vid clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5AzXYhsqBg

Steve / AF1 Racing
12-01-2008, 01:20 PM
Just got these Arrow Full systems in today:

http://www.af1racing.com/store/ProdImages/st2/gi51512su_51513su.jpg

Pretty trick, includes all mounting hardware even a fancy can strap with "Arrow" cut through it:

http://www.af1racing.com/store/ProdImages/st2/img_1217.jpg

Can be ordered online here:

http://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=6883

ThisEndUp
12-01-2008, 02:45 PM
Show us what it does for the bike.

Dyno results please. Before and after.

Steve / AF1 Racing
12-01-2008, 03:14 PM
Show us what it does for the bike.

Dyno results please. Before and after.

Sorry, don't have a budget for that at the moment. Dyno testing an exhaust in house is kind of tricky, you have to scrap one perfectly good exhasut ($400) and pay the tech to install ($100) then pay the Dyno operator ($300), then any sundry time spent in rejetting will also cost technician time...

We do know that the system is lighter than stock, about 4-5lbs, and that the Arrow system for RS50 gave the results below from similar back to back testing with a stock exhaust:

HONDARACER
12-01-2008, 05:40 PM
Just curious why they supply 2 different spigots for the headpipe?

HONDARACER
12-01-2008, 05:59 PM
Just for kicks, heres a vid of my 2007 Honda CBR125R with a Tyga pipe on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GmTlUb94Bc

Steve / AF1 Racing
12-01-2008, 06:24 PM
Just curious why they supply 2 different spigots for the headpipe?

Apparently there is some effect of tuning on the pipe by changing the flange length.

Arrow's note is along the lines of, "For highly tuned applications, fitting the shorter flange is recommended." or it could have been the other way around...

FUERA.....1
12-02-2008, 12:57 AM
Does fitting the shorter flange; narrow and move the power band silghtly further up the rev range?

ThisEndUp
12-02-2008, 07:19 AM
You would think that the manufacturer would provide a power graph on their pipes.

I searched the web....nothing out there.

Who's to say that this pipe will do anything beneficial? Besides a weight savings.

Steve, since you're a distributor for these pipes now...could you contact them for more info?

I hate to be difficult but going on blind faith just doesn't work for me.

Steve / AF1 Racing
12-02-2008, 01:05 PM
You would think that the manufacturer would provide a power graph on their pipes.

I searched the web....nothing out there.



Arrow faces the same economic issue that we do. Dyno time costs money and this full system costs less than anything else they offer. They are offering it as a loss leader as well, so margins are tight. There's also the issue of configuration variances per market, there are several power levels available worldwide due to local DOT laws in the countries that Aprilia operates in. Getting an apples to apples comparison would be tough. For a full power bike (say the RSVR) with a full system that costs over $1500 a dyno run is usually warranted. For the 125, Arrow is applying their considerable roadracing experience in Grands Prix 125 and providing the consumer a product based on that knowledge.





Steve, since you're a distributor for these pipes now...could you contact them for more info?

I hate to be difficult but going on blind faith just doesn't work for me.

We have no contact with Arrow of Italy, only the US distributor, whom does not have access to a dyno.

Blind faith is somewhat irrelevant, we know that Arrow has more R&D in two stroke exhausts than perhaps any other company in existance, and more of that experience at the World Grand Prix level. I trust that they are well researched and my previous experience with the product has affirmed my trust. Arrow makes good stuff.

I'll keep it in mind that you'd like us to do a dyno run.

Steve / AF1 Racing
12-02-2008, 01:09 PM
Does fitting the shorter flange; narrow and move the power band silghtly further up the rev range?

Not sure, Arrow recommended one for "tuned" bikes and another for standard bikes. But I do not know what the distinction is?

ThisEndUp
12-02-2008, 01:55 PM
I'll keep it in mind that you'd like us to do a dyno run.

Thank you sir.

HONDARACER
12-02-2008, 02:17 PM
I did some rough measurements on the OFF-ROAD pipe that came on our bikes and can tell you the dimensions are simular. I wish I could take my bike out for a ride, but its -10C here and the roads are in poor condition. I suspect I wont need to rejet. But these systems are very light weight.

ThisEndUp
12-02-2008, 04:59 PM
I did some rough measurements on the OFF-ROAD pipe that came on our bikes and can tell you the dimensions are simular. I wish I could take my bike out for a ride, but its -10C here and the roads are in poor condition. I suspect I wont need to rejet. But these systems are very light weight.

Was the difference in the baffle (tapered cone at the exhaust end)?

the brit
12-02-2008, 06:32 PM
Sorry, don't have a budget for that at the moment. Dyno testing an exhaust in house is kind of tricky, you have to scrap one perfectly good exhasut ($400) and pay the tech to install ($100) then pay the Dyno operator ($300), then any sundry time spent in rejetting will also cost technician time...

Pardon my ignorance, but why do you have to do that, or is it a case of it not being new anymore?

Steve / AF1 Racing
12-02-2008, 08:51 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but why do you have to do that, or is it a case of it not being new anymore?

Its scrap because we end up selling it used for considerably less than we bought it from the distributor for.

Every time we dyno an exhaust, for testing purposes, we lose money. In a more robust market we typically can absorb such a cost, but during this time of year, we choose not to.

A dyno run may be on the cards early next season, but I can't guarantee that.

However, if somebody wants to pre-purchase the exhaust that we'd be using for the test, @$270 delivered, I'll dyno it tomorrow...

:cheers:

derbybrit1
12-03-2008, 12:25 AM
I hate to be difficult but going on blind faith just doesn't work for me.

Is there a horsepower improvement level for which you will decide that you can fork out $400? Oh, hadn't thought that far ahead?

Perhaps you need me to help you justify a purchase:

You crashed your stock one and you need a replacement;
You want to save weight on your bike;
You are willing to invest more than twice as much money to improve HP, since you now will also need a carb, air filter, and tuning;
You believe that Arrow makes a quality product;
You think it makes your bike better than your buddy's bike;
You just want it.

So the $400, or how much power it makes is really irrelevant.

ThisEndUp
12-03-2008, 07:46 AM
Is there a horsepower improvement level for which you will decide that you can fork out $400? Oh, hadn't thought that far ahead?

Perhaps you need me to help you justify a purchase:

You crashed your stock one and you need a replacement;
You want to save weight on your bike;
You are willing to invest more than twice as much money to improve HP, since you now will also need a carb, air filter, and tuning;
You believe that Arrow makes a quality product;
You think it makes your bike better than your buddy's bike;
You just want it.

So the $400, or how much power it makes is really irrelevant.



Would I spend $400 on a pipe just because it looks neat and is a little lighter than the stock one but with the same power characteristics? No.

I just want to know what I'm getting....if I do get the pipe.

What's with the attitude?
If your getting sick of hearing me rant about this topic, just ignore this thread.

derbybrit1
12-03-2008, 08:31 AM
Would I spend $400 on a pipe just because it looks neat and is a little lighter than the stock one but with the same power characteristics? No.

I just want to know what I'm getting....if I do get the pipe.

What's with the attitude?
If your getting sick of hearing me rant about this topic, just ignore this thread.

Looks to me like you have answered all open questions.

Ignore: ON

ThisEndUp
12-03-2008, 10:19 AM
Looks to me like you have answered all open questions.

Ignore: ON

Yes, run away.........

Riddell
12-03-2008, 03:30 PM
Its scrap because we end up selling it used for considerably less than we bought it from the distributor for.

Every time we dyno an exhaust, for testing purposes, we lose money. In a more robust market we typically can absorb such a cost, but during this time of year, we choose not to.

A dyno run may be on the cards early next season, but I can't guarantee that.

However, if somebody wants to pre-purchase the exhaust that we'd be using for the test, @$270 delivered, I'll dyno it tomorrow...

:cheers:


Well as soon as I get closer to returning home I'll most likely be tuning (pipes, jetting, dyno break-in) the RS I am buying from you guys, I just need to figure out my total budget before commiting further.
Hope you guys arent too bored at the shop.

Aaron~

greg_c
12-04-2008, 12:35 PM
Steve,

I'm thinking I'll probably take that test Arrow exhaust off you and wanted to call first right of refusal. I'll call a little later today though because I have a couple of questions before I say go.


Thanks,

Greg

Steve / AF1 Racing
12-04-2008, 12:41 PM
According to this dyno graph the Arrow exhaust is worth a 5.3% increase in peak horsepower, with gains in the midrange as well

Sorry I couldn't produce a clearer graph (This one came from Arrow.it via an online archive)

the brit
12-04-2008, 12:52 PM
Its scrap because we end up selling it used for considerably less than we bought it from the distributor for.

Every time we dyno an exhaust, for testing purposes, we lose money. In a more robust market we typically can absorb such a cost, but during this time of year, we choose not to.

A dyno run may be on the cards early next season, but I can't guarantee that.

However, if somebody wants to pre-purchase the exhaust that we'd be using for the test, @$270 delivered, I'll dyno it tomorrow...

:cheers:

Thanks for the concise answer! That's what I figured it was, but wanted to check. $270 for a used once system sounds like a great deal!:)

Steve / AF1 Racing
12-04-2008, 01:26 PM
Thanks for the concise answer! That's what I figured it was, but wanted to check. $270 for a used once system sounds like a great deal!:)

Apparently somebody else thought it was a good idea too!

We'll be testing the system this saturday, and sending it off to its new home on Monday.

random0082
12-04-2008, 04:36 PM
Bear in mind that graph is done with the 34mm Dellorto as well i think

HONDARACER
12-04-2008, 04:58 PM
I weighed the stock pipe and the Tyga pipe, both without silencers attached on a digital scale and the stocker weighs 6 pounds and the Tygaa weighs 3 pounds. 50% lighter. 3 pounds is really nothing though.

Steve / AF1 Racing
12-04-2008, 05:18 PM
I weighed the stock pipe and the Tyga pipe, both without silencers attached on a digital scale and the stocker weighs 6 pounds and the Tygaa weighs 3 pounds. 50% lighter. 3 pounds is really nothing though.

Huh.

Did you weigh the whole exhaust (chamber, can, can strap, exhaust flange)?

I would be surprised if the stock exhaust system were really only 6lbs.

Steve / AF1 Racing
12-04-2008, 05:19 PM
Bear in mind that graph is done with the 34mm Dellorto as well i think

Didn't see that on the spec sheet from Arrow, and '99 RS125s (origin unit for this graph) came equipped with 28mm carbs didn't they?

HONDARACER
12-04-2008, 05:30 PM
Just weighed the chamber itself. Due to the goofy shape of the pipe it was impossable to fit it exactly on the scale, but I did place both pipes exactly the same way on the scale. THe scale is only good for a hundred pounds or so, that means standing on the scale with the pipe is out of the question. From what I can tell the thinwall race pipes are 50% lighter than the stocker.

Steve / AF1 Racing
12-04-2008, 07:13 PM
Just weighed the chamber itself. Due to the goofy shape of the pipe it was impossable to fit it exactly on the scale, but I did place both pipes exactly the same way on the scale. THe scale is only good for a hundred pounds or so, that means standing on the scale with the pipe is out of the question. From what I can tell the thinwall race pipes are 50% lighter than the stocker.

Cool.

Thanks for that. I might weigh stock vs. arrow on our scale on Saturday if I remember it.

Steve / AF1 Racing
12-06-2008, 11:49 AM
I used the scale in our shipping department and came up with these numbers:

Stock Full system (expansion chamber, cannister, flange, & can strap)
-10.60 lbs

Arrow Full System (expansion chamber, cannister, flange [only one of the two], can strap)
-7.45 lbs

HONDARACER
12-06-2008, 12:17 PM
Ok, now get that pipe on a bike and dyno it!

Steve / AF1 Racing
12-06-2008, 01:16 PM
Ok, now get that pipe on a bike and dyno it!

I already did, but I've been having all kinds of trouble getting the graphs to come up in a form that I can print.

In a nutshell, the Arrow pipe is good for 1 max hp more than stock, on an otherwise all stock '09 RS125.

The arrow is good for 500 rpm of over-rev, so it still makes power at 11,500 rpm versus the where the stock RS125 has dropped about 40% of power, the Arrow drops ~5%.

At 11,000 rpm the Arrow makes 1.5 hp more than stock, as it peaks later in and higher than the stock pipe. (Stock pipe peaks at 10,500 rpm).

There are no notable gains in the midrange, and power is actually 3-5% lower than stock from 6,500 to ~8,750 rpm. At all points beyond that the Arrow pipe makes more torque and over a broader spread of RPM (torque plateaus at 9,000 rpm and stays flat until ~11,250 when it finally begins to fall.

Please bear in mind that I am the junior dyno operator here, so bigger gains may have been possible. I didn't change any settings in the carb; stock 175 main was retained, as were all other carburetion settings.

Micah commented that a proper reed cage (V-Force Delta III (http://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=6806)) would have probably eliminated the losses that I noted in the lower rev range, and possibly even resulted in gains.

random0082
12-06-2008, 03:13 PM
Didn't see that on the spec sheet from Arrow, and '99 RS125s (origin unit for this graph) came equipped with 28mm carbs didn't they?

99 should have been 28mm, yea. But check the jetting references at the bottom of the page. K57 needle and 162 main jet are both 34mm parts, not 28mm. i think they fitted a 34mm for that run. That printout was probably done as Arrow supplied the Aprilia Superteens race series in the UK

Socket
12-07-2008, 04:07 PM
Time for a pipe...I have all other complimenting mods, and it'd been stated that the OEM USE spec pipe was not a bottle neck. Tuning my 34mm as we speak, with my Vforce 3's and forged internals!

HONDARACER
12-07-2008, 04:27 PM
Oh ya, well I have my carb bored out to 31mm and a Stainless Tyga pipe installed. I am going to drill out some spare jets and do some dyno testing.

Oh and I bought a spare jug I am going to be dickin around with some porting on.