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00zero
08-30-2008, 08:49 PM
Possibly it cold be the first Mana that is totaled, and happened to be mine. I was just riding back country roads, possibly way to leisurely. After exiting second sweeper and before sharp "S" I just put my hand on the brake lever to slowly slow down before the sharp turns. Front wheel locked up and we went down. Bike sliding into the end of the guardrail and I landed in the field about 50 feet from the touch down. Thanks to the riding gear my injures are no so bad, Bruised left shoulder and knee, one broken rib and two minor skinscrub on left elbow and right wrist, all in all not so bad for how bad it could happened.

Mana and the gear are totaled. Thank to Ed from AF-1 for prompt respond with the parts pricing.

As I was putting on some miles (1396 total), front brakes was getting incredibly strong. On the other hand the Dunlop Qualifier, at first I didn't find them to be so bad, but as Mana was getting out of the brake-in period I was starting to ride a bit faster and I found that grip was questionable. Should take advice from Deathace seriously and replace the tires or ride with extreme caution until they are gone and then put on something more appropriate for the size of the bike and especially for the strength of the brakes.

I love the bike and I will get another one. Now I am extremely interested in one with the ABS. All my BMW bikes had ABS and I newer had any problems.

ritchj
08-30-2008, 08:58 PM
Glad to hear you're OK; details on the gear you were wearing.

Sorry to hear you're the first, on the forum anyways.

To quote a NASCAR great:

Ricky Bobby: If you ain't first, you're last. You know what I'm talking about?


.

roachie
08-30-2008, 08:59 PM
Wow - I'm so so sorry! Glad you're ok!! (I had about that many miles on my Scarabeo before I went down - am so nervous now on my Mana and don't ride it nearly enough...)

pete roper
08-30-2008, 09:44 PM
Very unfortunate. You have my sympathy.

Interesting about the tyres, I've still not had ay problems with mine but I ride the Mana in a VERY sedate manner compared to the Griso so I'm not pushing anything like some people may do. First hint of trouble though and I'll bin 'em. I just binned the Metzlers on the Griso because they were HORRIBLE! Showing very little wear really but they felt awful so they've G-O-N-E....

Pete

rwp42
08-30-2008, 11:39 PM
00zero - I am VERY sorry to hear of your incident, and am glad that you are okay. Did you grab the brakes hard? Was there gravel or other loose material on the road? I have braked pretty firmly a few times and have yet to lock the front or rear up on my bike. Hard to know where the line is though, until you cross it.

RwP

tha-mask
09-02-2008, 04:56 AM
very sorry to hear about your accident, but glad you are OK.

One thing I have tried to get into the habbit more is using the rear brake. Coming from a scoot where I always grabbed the rear brake to scrub off some speed. On the Mana I have always found myself grabbing the front brake which once almost caught me out. For the time being I'm trying to use mostly rear, and add front when required. I really want to get into the habbit of making it that I instictively gor for rear as well as the front.

Shorts
09-02-2008, 06:06 AM
Glad you're alright 00



Locking up the front brake seems a bit harsh of a result. Do you remember if you panicked? That's odd - reading your post the first time I almost wondered if the caliper stuck or something. Anyway, I'm just rambling.


Running the mountains here if I need to scrub off any speed on any road other than straight, I use light rear brake. I'm kinda chicken to use front brakes in curves :burnout:

ManaSport
09-02-2008, 02:33 PM
This bike needs ABS period.... I will hold till the make one with ABS and sorry you had a bad accident, but I agree that ABS will help us in the future. I am sure your experienced at doing the right braking, but the MANA brake must have messed up and locked.

pete roper
09-02-2008, 05:13 PM
This bike needs ABS period.... I will hold till the make one with ABS and sorry you had a bad accident, but I agree that ABS will help us in the future. I am sure your experienced at doing the right braking, but the MANA brake must have messed up and locked.

ABS will NOT stop you trowelling the bike if you grab a handful of brake when leaned over. While I can understand some people wanting it it is NOT a magic talisman. The only real sollution is learning to ride properly and if you screw up accepting responsibility for your own actions.

Pete

Shorts
09-02-2008, 07:01 PM
This bike needs ABS period....



I do not agree with the blanket statement. I don't see why this bike, the Mana, needs ABS.


I like what ABS does - I see the pluses so I'm not saying this as an anti-ABS sentiment, but I don't see the big whoop of the Mana NEEDING ABS. It's a motorcycle for crying out loud! This is how motorcycles are traditionally built. Are manf starting to put ABS on bikes??....yes they are.

I'm trying to say all this and not use a cliche 'us vs them' phrase that would so easily convey my point....

ManaSport
09-03-2008, 02:11 AM
I would see why it may need ABS (its real customer base is usually normal riders, also those who cant shift, those who want the twist and go, and the ABS adds more safety to it) I know ABS is not necessary and you are all right, a real experienced and professional rider can adjust easily without ABS brakes in emergencies, but those who usually dont want to shift and want an easier transmission, often feel they need less things to worry about especially in emergencies. Id even like the MANA to add the rear brake access to the handle bar as an option especially like those underbone motorbikes in SE Asia.

Shorts
09-03-2008, 02:47 AM
No. Leave the brake on the foot. I am a normal rider of a motorcycle, with only one arm, and I am lady (can you get more 'target audience' than that???). If I can ride a normal bike with the clutch and front brake and switch gear on one side of the handlebar, anyone can. I don't see the need to add more crap the the bars to manipulate.

Why move a perfectly good foot operated brake pedal? :rolleyes:


Sorry, I'm a bit warmed up about the prospect of complicating a perfectly good thing. This bike is a dream bike I and many other "wished" would ever come to market for a variety of reasons, controllable and not. Can we please enjoy the bike as it is? I haven't even seen the damn thing in person and yet there's already complaints about this or that...I swear...guess you can't please everyone :bangwall:

MilleMikey
09-03-2008, 03:00 AM
I did a lot of riding with the Mana prior to it being released here in the U.S. and the riders really pushed the bike hard.
I was amazed how well it did in Sport mode all around the rodes of So. Cal.

No issues whatsoever of the brakes ever locking up.
Sounds unlucky, glad you are ok though!
Bikes and Gear are replaceable my friend.


M>

pete roper
09-03-2008, 03:10 AM
No. Leave the brake on the foot. I am a normal rider of a motorcycle, with only one arm, and I am lady (can you get more 'target audience' than that???). If I can ride a normal bike with the clutch and front brake and switch gear on one side of the handlebar, anyone can. I don't see the need to add more crap the the bars to manipulate.

Why move a perfectly good foot operated brake pedal? :rolleyes:


Sorry, I'm a bit warmed up about the prospect of complicating a perfectly good thing. This bike is a dream bike I and many other "wished" would ever come to market for a variety of reasons, controllable and not. Can we please enjoy the bike as it is? I haven't even seen the damn thing in person and yet there's already complaints about this or that...I swear...guess you can't please everyone :bangwall:

You don't want to rely on the single rear disc for stopping?!?!?

The Mana is actually great in the fact that you rarely use anything other than your right hand. If it is your right arm that is missing then I'd suggest hooking up a larger master cylinder to drive the two front discs, or even all three, off the foot lever that would normally do the rear. I know a guy here in Oz who has a Mk IV LeMans with all three brakes running through a Holden, (General Motors.) master cylinder and that thing just squats down and stops on a dime! My Convert has linked brakes and is another joy, twist to go, stamp to stop! And it does it well!!!

For someone like yourself with a missing *bit*, and rather an important *bit* at that, as far as vehicle control is concerned, the Mana is a superb addition to your vehicle choices. If you need help and advice on master cylinder ratios and such please don't hesitate to ask, I, and no doubt others, would be happy to assist.

Pete

Shorts
09-03-2008, 03:54 AM
Pete, thanks for the info. I've been riding since '06 with a dual lever setup with info found on DRA and NABD. I considered running linked brakes but I did not want to give up the independence if either or have only one system on board. I also did not want to rely on brakes being on the foot only. That would be hell trying to maneuver a bike on hilly terrain in very low/no speed situations and try to keep one foot on the peg to use the brake with trying to hold the bike 1)up and 2)from rolling the wrong direction while turning the front wheel. That just makes no sense at all. Especially in light of having on one arm on the bike for any man handling and now you want to take away a foot too??? No way! Were is the stability??

So I said forget it - I'll learn to ride the regular system. It works out. I can ride just fine ;)

I cannot use my left arm so fully right hand dependent.


Oh, and no - I do not want to rely on a single rear disk for stopping. I prefer the option of using a front disc for the majority of my brake apps with a hint of rear brake to settle the suspension ;)


Edit: 00zero, sorry for hijacking your post. :o

Pete, anything further not related to the OP lets go to PM or another thread

pete roper
09-03-2008, 04:40 AM
Yup, no worries. As I said, I hardly use anything other than my right hand, (When riding the Mana, get your minds out of the gutter you lot!) and the little beast works superbly. I use the 'Paddles' in 'Sport Gear' but the option of the foot lever, even though it doesn't have a *feel* to it, is there. 95% of the time though it stays in 'Touring' which is a fine and splendid thing.

Different thread or PM? No difference to me, I'll be happy to try and assist if I can. There may well be other limbless folk who would be interested though. I dunno but I know of other people who have *issues* who are shy and need the encouragement of seeing others participate to 'Come out of the woodwork'. I'm sure that there are many folk who fancy riding a bike but feel they can't for one reason or another. Technology is a wonderful thing!!! Get 'em with the programme!!!!:bump:

Pete

Shorts
09-03-2008, 05:27 AM
I don't mind publicizing - just not in 00zero's thread ;)

00zero
09-03-2008, 10:43 AM
I thank you all for replies and for your concerns about me. Two weeks after the incident I am doing very good. A few days ago I took BMW for a short, around the block, ride and everything went fine. Tomorrow I am riding to work and going for a ride after work.

Mana, was my first automatic bike, previously I just road tested a few MP3s. In my case what I found, not having to use clutch, shift and making sure that I am in the right gear, give me way too much "free time" to get into almost like an auto pilot riding mode. I know, I could use downshift in the automatic mode to reduce the speed, but no, instead, I went for the front brake. and that was turning into very bad habit. On BMW I would very rarely use brakes to slow down the bike, reduced engine braking on Mana probably drove me to reach for the brake lever. As I was getting Mana up in millage the brakes ware getting nicer and nicer all the way up to a few last hundred miles when I did notice that they are getting a bit "grabby". I do not think that there was any mechanical problem, just pads and the rotors mating surfaces getting broken in.

Grip on Dunlops. I don't know, in the past I mostly used Metzelers and Bridgestones and the grip was not an issue on wet or dry I could push it to the limits of my liking. When I originally road tested Mana, car pull in front of me a bit closer than I liked it and give me a chance to test the brakes. The tire went into a chirp with moderate brake pressure, at that time I was so impressed with the bike that I didn't think much about tires and possible grip issues. A few hundred miles before the crash I got caught in the rain, With the new bike I was very careful, tip toeing, and still managing to slide the rear tire, definitive not good for confidence building.

I love Mana and I will definitively buy another one. I love the convenience of not having the clutch. I love the storage space. I know for sure that I am going to think twice before I put my hand on the brake lever. I like that there is "noise" about Mana with ABS. I love ABS on BMWs, if saves my ass one time it is worth having it. I know for sure that this time if I had it the outcome will be different. Even a good "tank slapper"would be much better than what happened and would teach me the same lesion.

This weekend I am off from work and I will lift the front end and inspect the brakes and the calipers to see if there is any possibility of caliper hanging, just to satisfy curiosity.
I will take a few photos of the riding gear and post my finds on that subject later.

Thank you again for all your support

00zero
09-08-2008, 11:36 AM
Last Friday I got back on the bike (R1100R) and I went for a ride, about 130 miles, everything went fine . I went back where the incident took place using the same roads as I did that day. Found some interesting things about the lest few miles of the ride.

Before I turn on the "crash" road, I rode for seven miles on the road that had right side of the lane freshly oiled and topped with gravel. I rode on the unoiled track,and I didn't think much about it.
There was 1.8 miles from where I turn into the "crash" road to the incident location. It should be enough to scrub-off all collected over spray and the dribbling that tires collected.
But, at the time of the crucial ride I didn't realized that I was following the oiling machine that left some substantial dribbling on the "crash" road, it is a country road and there is many stains on it, I didn't think that some of them are so fresh. Some major spill spots are 0.8 miles from the crash right in the center of the inner track, where I normally ride. There is some traces of the dribbles as close as 0.2 miles from the crash.
On the under side of the front fender there are traces of slingeoff oiling material.

The way I went down didn't make any sense to me, I was not going fast, I was out of the lean, yes Mana has enormous brakes, but, I just put my hand on the lever and took the slack out of it. And I went down just like on the "black ice". I do remember, when I was going down, I was in disbelief that is happening. Good, in one hand, that I didn't have a chance to stiffen muscles and get hurt much worse.

I did lift the front end of the bike and checked Manas front brakes and caliper for possibility of hanging, all fine.

This is the story about my unfortunate event, be careful out there.

williamr
09-09-2008, 09:56 AM
very sorry to hear about your accident, but glad you are OK.
For the time being I'm trying to use mostly rear, and add front when required. I really want to get into the habbit of making it that I instictively gor for rear as well as the front.

Wrong way around. Use mostly front with a little rear - about a 70/30 mix for normal braking, nearer 50/50 in the wet. STart to load the rear before applying the front. For really hard braking use even more front in the dry, but....

As you slow past walking speed, ease the front and let the rear take the load so that you stop on the rear. This is because the weight transfer that gives the front tyre all its grip diminishes as the bike slows, and at very slow speeds the rear has more grip than the front. Add to that, a slow speed rear wheel slide is trivial and easily controlled. A slow speed front wheel lock up is likely to spit you off.

Most of the time you can stop OK on the front, but as it's always safe to stop on the rear you should do this as a matter of good practice.

Don't brake in a curve. Experienced riders can use the rear a little bit,very carefully, but you need quite a lot of skill to use any front brake in a curve and stay on the bike. At least I'm told that. I brake in curves without any problem in the dry, but be aware that it will pull the bike upright and straighten the line. If you try it, apply the brakes very gently until you develop a real feel for what you're doing.

Sounds like 00zero just misread the road surface - understandable given his post. Could have been any of us. Sorry about the bike, but at least you'll ride again.

Aside a litle, my current ride has ABS. It's failure on my part if I activate it, but it's nice to know it's there. I've ridden a bike with linked brakes for three years. One front disc had abbreviated pads. That was linked with the rear and gave reasonable balance. The other, indeoendent, front disc was normal and was thwe main stopper. The inability to let go thew front at slow speed dumped me twice in the wet. ABS won't help as it cuts out at about 4 mph. Both drops were after I replaced the pads. The abbreviated pads were unobtainable, so standard pads were fitted which gave full performance to the disc. That wrecked the front/rear balance. Most owners, and even mechs, wouldn't know about the cut down pads.

Rob

PAPASMURF
09-23-2008, 03:28 PM
Sorry to hear sbout your mana glad your are ok
2 weeks ago I had a young girl come up on my left side and I was watching her eyes in her rear view side mirror she didn't look and just turned right in front of me.I immediately dropped my mana on its left side and the bike slid under her car my side box saved me from serious injuries I had a little road rash on my left arm. I was told that I should have gone to my right, if I had I would have hit a telephone post guildwire and had a lot more injuries est. for repairs $9908.00

jb

00zero
09-24-2008, 08:12 AM
Sorry to hear about your misshap, glad you walked away from it.

Yea, part for bikes are very expensive, in my case parts only totaled to 7800$. And that is not just Aprilia, I did cross reference some of the parts to BMW and they are even worse.


I always wore the riding gear and its importance showed in the case that I had. I get goose bumps when I see people riding in t shirt, shorts and no helmet.


Bodes will heal, machines will get fixed or replaced, show must go on.