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Boyo
04-24-2008, 03:48 PM
Hi Guys n gals

This topic has been looked at over and over on this Forum and i appolagize if this is something that has been brought up before.

Here is my problem,
Recently the bike was bumped into another vehicle and since the accident it hasnt started apart from briefly after the accident which i feel was excess fuel in the system burning off.

Spec: 04 SR50 Ditech 50cc Standard no mod's apart from ECU deristriction.

At the turn of the key the fuel pump primes the injection LED lights and Oil presure LED lights Voltage of the Batt is 12.5 volts.

Atempt to start bike the Fuel pump runs, the Injection LED goes out, Oil Lamp flickers as bike kick's over No start Batt volts 11.8
Battery is fully charged. I might buy a new battery anyway as its the only easily available spare part to start from.

I have a Spark
The Bike has Compression
So we have spark and Air but i suspect no fuel, as after kicking the bike over the plug is dry. There is fuel at the injector as i had an eye full when i removed the injector to check for fuel.

Without access to a dealer or the game boy is there a way to check the injector is working. on a car i would normally remove the plug and monitor the idle of the car or in the case of a non runner pull the fuel bar and watch the spray (dangrous but effective).

Would like to know any faults that you guys think might cause the sytem to not let the injector work or if the injector could be somthing i need to replace.

Any and all help would be great...

Cheers

Switchbak
04-26-2008, 06:10 AM
i think your battery is shot, check the water level if possible. i suspect a bad cell.

canyondancer
04-26-2008, 07:53 PM
I agree. Mine says 14.2 volts fully charged.

Ciudale
04-27-2008, 12:37 AM
I agree. Mine says 14.2 volts fully charged.

You mean at idle ?

Boyo
04-27-2008, 02:12 PM
UPDATE

Have ordered a battery, but have managed to start the bike.

Its starts after cranking it over about 10 or 12 times, it starts but doesnt idle and cuts out, the second it try to add any throttle it cuts out.

Cheers

Time2Scoot
04-28-2008, 03:00 AM
Check the wires that go into the injector, give them the tug test as they can sometimes weakin in the cover itself. Check your ignition wires along the loom for and breaks in the wires ( visual should easily show wear but you may need a multimeter ? )

Other than that check the coil - does it look in good condition ? Quite cheap to buy another on ebay also, this sounds very similiar to AustSR's problem as we found it was a combination of both of these.

Good luck !

t2s

Boyo
04-29-2008, 11:00 AM
I've check the said connection, but i'm on stop till i get new battery its in the post (ebay). I'm going to top up the charge before i try it.

I'm thinking if the battery does solve the problem or not i'm going to take the head of change the head gasket and give it a good clean, as when i was swapping the plugs i noticed a bit of black oily crap on the threads.

I'm also going to remove the exhaust pipe and re-paint it.
Whats your opinion on that shall i paint it matt or gloss black or even a silver?

I've also got accident damage to repair but i have bought some spare flairings off of ebay to practice on.

canyondancer
05-01-2008, 12:44 AM
You mean at idle ?

I only noticed the 14.2 volts before starting the engine. I'll check again with engine running and see what it says.

Boyo
05-02-2008, 07:34 AM
Update

New Battery, and spark plug but still no sustained start.

I have got it to fire after cranking it 10 or 20 times but it wont idle and dies after about 15, 20 seconds.

any ideas?

Coil i think is good as i do have a spark???

At a loss might pull engine and stripe to make sure everything is good any more ideas?

thanks

muchacho
05-02-2008, 08:55 AM
Check the know issue sticky about batteries/injector.

It may be that your cables are corroded. Check the cables from the battery and check the throttle body connector for any corrosion.

Nega
05-03-2008, 10:57 AM
I had the same Symptoms for a good while, It turned out to be a bad fuel pump in my bike, hopefully your bike is still under warranty :rolleyes:

Vikter
05-03-2008, 11:02 AM
I had the same Symptoms for a good while, It turned out to be a bad fuel pump in my bike, hopefully your bike is still under warranty :rolleyes:

When your fuel pump started going out, did it sputter at idle, or did it just quit working one day?

I know a guy who had a Harley Softtail that would sputter at idle; come to find out, it was a faulty fuel pump. 2 weeks after he got it fixed, he wrecked the bike and almost died. :(

Nega
05-03-2008, 02:43 PM
When your fuel pump started going out, did it sputter at idle, or did it just quit working one day?

I know a guy who had a Harley Softtail that would sputter at idle; come to find out, it was a faulty fuel pump. 2 weeks after he got it fixed, he wrecked the bike and almost died. :(

It did sputter a little bit and then die at idle, I just thought it was because of a low battery voltage or because the engine was cold, but when I took it to my tech, He couldn't even start it. So he changed the Fuel Pump and it had no Starting issues anymore.

I still have the Occasional Hard start where I have to crank it once or twice, but I think its my Battery.

Vikter
05-03-2008, 03:49 PM
Would it start, sputter, and die within 6 seconds?

Boyo
05-04-2008, 05:29 AM
UPDATE

NEW Battery fitted
NEW Spark Plug
Checked using a m.meter Most if not all wires running from sensons on the engine back to the ECU.
Cleaned and Checked Battery Wires.
Removed Exhaust Checked and Refitted.
Checked Coil for damage and corrosion, plus i'm getting a Spark.

Could like other post have mentioned Be the fuel pump? or Still be the Coil? Could it also be the ECU???

Cant seem to find the fuel filter, is it mount in the exit manifold of the fuel tank?

The Bike does start after 15 to 20 cranks for less than 10 seconds and wont idle it seem it wants to try.

Ciudale
05-04-2008, 06:40 AM
Unless you have a 10 years old bike, the fuel filter should be ok. On the first models its located inside the fuel tank (great !), later outside, just before the pump.

muchacho
05-04-2008, 08:01 AM
Try cleaning the injector head.

Then open the air filter box. Get a buddy to try to start the bike, at the same time, spray carb cleaner into the air intake inside the air filter box.

Ciudale
05-04-2008, 08:21 AM
Get a buddy to try to start the bike, at the same time, spray carb cleaner into the air intake inside the air filter box.

I wouldn't do this on the lubricated Ditech crankcase ...

muchacho
05-04-2008, 08:37 AM
already been done. It works.

Oldrogue
05-04-2008, 09:48 AM
If you feel comfortable taking the injector out, you might want to check the orings. I went through this awhile back and when I eased the injector out I found that the orings had misaligned and were GONE or cracked. Been good ever since. I had symptoms exactly like yours.

Boyo
05-04-2008, 08:44 PM
UPDATE

After all my checking and reseach even with a new battery i wasnt 100% convinced that it wasnt the battery.

So yesterday i went out did all the things you guys recommended.
I checked the cables, the injector, the Laminar Valve, the exhaust and the battery.
I came back inside dissapointed...

But still not convinced the battery was right... So i went out and bought a brand new Trickle charger and again charged the battery tried starting it and with a bit of prodding and cleaning the plug, i got it started (also pumping the pipe between the tank and the pump cleared any air caused by the accident)...

Its still running rough the exhaust needs a new gasket...

It took alot of cranking trying and plug cleaning to get it going plus 2 now fully charged batteries (my old charger is now in the bin) but its looking better...

SO i guess i have a few things to remind people including myself firstly check, check and recheck, also its always the battery lol, finally just because it has an injection system and a semingly complex ECU persistence is the key you can fix it...

Jobs left to do now:
Replace the Exhaust gasket,
refit all trim,
new brake pads,
repair rear tyre,
replace the oil in the oil tank for semi syn,
fix a rattle/grinding noise from the clutch.

ITS THE BATTERY LOL (oh and a knackered charger)

Boyo
05-04-2008, 08:55 PM
NOTE

When removing the injector be awear that there might still be pressure in the fuel system. Dont get an eye full of fuel it stings like hell...

Will report and post pics of the bike when i finish repair accident damage, it would of been to easy to send it to the breakers yard...

Thank you all for you warm welcome and all your help.

DGoncz
06-26-2010, 12:32 PM
Hi Guys n gals

This topic has been looked at over and over on this Forum and i appolagize if this is something that has been brought up before.

(snip)

I have a Spark
The Bike has Compression
So we have spark and Air but i suspect no fuel, as after kicking the bike over the plug is dry. There is fuel at the injector as i had an eye full when i removed the injector to check for fuel.

Without access to a dealer or the game boy is there a way to check the injector is working.

(snip)

Cheers

Yes. Ignition off. Disconnect battery, negative first. Press the clips and pull the wiring connectors; there are two injectors. The closest to the cylinder head is the air injector; the other is fuel. Measure terminal resistance with an ohm-meter; I"m sorry I don't have the spec, certainly neither open nor closed, somewhere in a range like 1 ohm. A 9V "transistor radio" battery can't provide enough current to damage the injector. Damage could occur if you left it connected all day--maybe. Get some grabber clips (not clip leads, micro-grabs) and grab the terminals of an injector. Put your mechanic's stethescope in your ears or yell at your neighbor/rommate/wife to turn off that damn radio/lawnmower etc. Secure one end of the connector to the 9V battery. Polarity doesn't matter; it's a solenoid. Tap the other wire to the other battery terminal. Listen for a click. Try the other injector.

Reconnect the injectors -- correctly, the way they were; press the clip and push them on easily. Reconnect battery, negative last. Clear ECU error codes. Turn the engine over to prime air and fuel. Ignition off. Disconnect the injectors. Reconnect the 9V battery setup. Tap the fuel injector, then tap the air injector, and smell for fuel in the spark plug hole with a hose in your nose. Then tap the air several times to clear that mismeasured fuel you just threw around in there.

When my cylinder head comes back from the shop, I"m installing it with 3/8 inch spacers so there will be a gap. There should be a bang and a balll of flame when I key the ignition. I may have to make a flame shield to direct the flame. I may be able to open the throttle and get a video on YouTube or here, a fireworks display up the middle of the scoot. Then again, I may have to call the local fire department. You never know. Yes, I have an extinguisher. Yes, I will use remote fuel in a Sigg bottle with a cap and two ports.

You need air, fuel and spark:
Doesn't run? Test for air, fuel, and spark before doing anything else. Be sure.

Got spark and air but it doesn't run? Then there's no fuel, is there?
Got fuel and air but it doesn't run? Then there's no spark, is there?
Got spark and fuel but it doesn't run? Then there's no air, is there?

Easy. Keep at it!

Here's a pic of an Equus 3721 battery voltage monitor on my scooter that makes diagnosis a little faster.

The two gages will monitor fuel injection air assist pressure and propane pressure that will substitue for air when WOT pinches the air line. The propane pressure will be set lower than the normal operating air pressure so no pinch, no propane. I do not know what it will do. :) That's why I am doing it. ;)